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4.1 AVERAGE
4.1 AVERAGE
Stopped reading at around page 1600 ages ago, as I became preoccupied with uni and now I'm back to reading again it's just too much to get back into. However I do think I got a lot of the information I wanted from the main points of the story, which is excellent by the way! I even chose to translate the tale of GuanYu flooding the seven armies as part of my degree.
Really really enjoyed it, this whole era of history is an absolute madness! The politics is incredibly engaging and interesting. It's also filled with various philosophical Ideas. The story of Zhuge Liang and the straw boats is something I think about all the time.
This is a legendary book and one that I'm glad I got round to, especially due to its influence on Chinese culture throughout its history.
Really really enjoyed it, this whole era of history is an absolute madness! The politics is incredibly engaging and interesting. It's also filled with various philosophical Ideas. The story of Zhuge Liang and the straw boats is something I think about all the time.
This is a legendary book and one that I'm glad I got round to, especially due to its influence on Chinese culture throughout its history.
'You're wise enough to rule the world and perverse enough to destroy the world.'
'Oh good,' Cao Cao thought.
Late Second Century China through the eyes of Fourteenth Century China as translated into Twenty-First Century English... ...what could go wrong?
It can be hard to judge a translation/abridgement. It is clear the story suffers compared to its original form. However, virtually every text from the past, including dry histories, can be warped significantly from their original form (see [b:Confronting the Classics|17434669|Confronting the Classics Traditions, Adventures and Innovations|Mary Beard|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1422743545l/17434669._SY75_.jpg|24291754]). Vaguely saying "I am sure it makes sense in its original text" seems just as bad as solely judging it from present perceptions.
Romance of the Three Kingdoms is about three (mainly) kingdoms who are intertwined by, I guess metaphorically, “romance”, but mainly they fight. There are literally (in the original sense of the term) dozens of campaigns that do not really seem to advance much other than letting us know how clever people are with their tricks, often the same ones over and over again.
So Zhang Fei plans a trick. Seizing a perfectly innocent soldier from his own ranks, he has him beaten.
Even one of the main characters Cao Cao sees through the repetition, and the author goes to special lengths to have him be convinced that no, it’s the real deal this time... ...oh oops, it’s another trick.
I believe this is a good translation. The story is easy to follow, despite the profusion of names. What helps is the vast majority of them die in the same chapter, often on the same page. The key ones stick around, even when they are a little weird, for example when
Cao Cao bumbles an assassination with a bejeweled sword, massacres a family that was hosting him, then kills the guy riding back. He’s one of the “winners” in the story. Or when Lü Bu comes to congratulate Xuande on his promotion, Zhang Fei charges in with a drawn sword and bursts out that Xuande has orders to kill Lü Bu. You can feel reassured that further context would not help explain this. The main characters are actually interesting, and their eventual deaths/passings take a lot of power and drive from the story. Kong Ming carries the weight for a few chapters, however I did get tired of constantly reading:
But once again Kong Ming has foreseen this.
There is a fantasy element of sorts in the books. Large portions will be grounded in logistics/tactics of attacking a wall at a certain angle/setting ambushed, then followed up with a couple of chapters of some insane magic (such as by Zuo Ci) that doesn’t really carry any long-term implications. There’s some wild beast magic towards the end – it doesn’t appear to help much (the practitioner of it loses seven times), but it’s a bit of fun and something for people to pick up parts of this story and add their own interpretations.
A brisk read despite its length. I’d recommend it, at least in this language.
'Oh good,' Cao Cao thought.
Late Second Century China through the eyes of Fourteenth Century China as translated into Twenty-First Century English... ...what could go wrong?
It can be hard to judge a translation/abridgement. It is clear the story suffers compared to its original form. However, virtually every text from the past, including dry histories, can be warped significantly from their original form (see [b:Confronting the Classics|17434669|Confronting the Classics Traditions, Adventures and Innovations|Mary Beard|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1422743545l/17434669._SY75_.jpg|24291754]). Vaguely saying "I am sure it makes sense in its original text" seems just as bad as solely judging it from present perceptions.
Romance of the Three Kingdoms is about three (mainly) kingdoms who are intertwined by, I guess metaphorically, “romance”, but mainly they fight. There are literally (in the original sense of the term) dozens of campaigns that do not really seem to advance much other than letting us know how clever people are with their tricks, often the same ones over and over again.
So Zhang Fei plans a trick. Seizing a perfectly innocent soldier from his own ranks, he has him beaten.
Even one of the main characters Cao Cao sees through the repetition, and the author goes to special lengths to have him be convinced that no, it’s the real deal this time... ...oh oops, it’s another trick.
I believe this is a good translation. The story is easy to follow, despite the profusion of names. What helps is the vast majority of them die in the same chapter, often on the same page. The key ones stick around, even when they are a little weird, for example when
Cao Cao bumbles an assassination with a bejeweled sword, massacres a family that was hosting him, then kills the guy riding back. He’s one of the “winners” in the story. Or when Lü Bu comes to congratulate Xuande on his promotion, Zhang Fei charges in with a drawn sword and bursts out that Xuande has orders to kill Lü Bu. You can feel reassured that further context would not help explain this. The main characters are actually interesting, and their eventual deaths/passings take a lot of power and drive from the story. Kong Ming carries the weight for a few chapters, however I did get tired of constantly reading:
But once again Kong Ming has foreseen this.
There is a fantasy element of sorts in the books. Large portions will be grounded in logistics/tactics of attacking a wall at a certain angle/setting ambushed, then followed up with a couple of chapters of some insane magic (such as by Zuo Ci) that doesn’t really carry any long-term implications. There’s some wild beast magic towards the end – it doesn’t appear to help much (the practitioner of it loses seven times), but it’s a bit of fun and something for people to pick up parts of this story and add their own interpretations.
A brisk read despite its length. I’d recommend it, at least in this language.
More like Bromance of the Three Kingdoms amirite?!
Three friends swear in a peach orchard to be BEST FRIENDS FOREVER. And they stick to it, avenging deaths and swearing allegiances with their relationship as the prime motivator. Many millions died for Xuande's OT3.
Five pages of Main Characters, a map with 50 cities most of them not the ones mentioned, this was worse than reading a Roman biography getting all the names straight.
The abridgement at first left something to be desired, but I realize in 2019 in the West, the entire book would be unwieldy (it is already 615 pages in English) and many of the repetitive sections would get boring. So it is ok.
The characters turn coat more than they change their underwear. And for petty, petty reasons. "To Protect the Mandate of Heaven!" when everybody is clearly in it for their own gain.
Many, many innocent people died and/or conscripted into, meaningless to them wars.
From a story point of view, it starts out reasonably realistic, though I still can't think about the logistics of raising a trained army of 100,000 men on the fly, in the 1st century.
Then it slowly gets odder and odder - a ghost apparition, Daoist priest does magic, reanimated dead bodies, ghost revenges, Kong Ming has seven grains of rice in his mouth when he is buried so he can stop his star falling from heaven (tipping off the other faction), and he succeeds in pushing the star back (post-mortem), ghosts coming for revenge, and, seasoned warlords, suddenly dropping dead from surprise or shock.
Also gunpowder in the 1st century AD.
A second note to the translation, it is all in present tense. Which does link to the original Chinese being basically tenseless (compared to English grammar), but it makes it very very hard to get a sense of timing. It all feels like it is happening in the now, not over 100 years.
I've reread my review (I generally review asap for freshness) and noticed - The story has so many subplots and biplots and time --- over 100 years and at least as many people to start. It makes me forget the scope of the opening lines:
Steeped deeply in Confucian filial piety, entire clans suffer - mortally - the consequences of almost infantile seeming whims. It's semi-fictional and certainly the shapeshifting Daoist priest and his zombie army is probably fiction, but most people written about here that have lived and died probably did live and die.
From this book, the Chinese have the expression : "Speak of Cao Cao, and Cao Cao arrives", which cognates exactly with our English "Speak of the devil"... which tells you of Cao Cao's nature.
Xuande's a hero mostly because half-way through (spoilers) he has the marvelous idea to not raise an entire city to the ground, with the people. "Don't kill any innocent people!" he orders his army. The wondrous novel idea gains him the hearts of the common people (also there were common people left to give their hearts).
Three friends swear in a peach orchard to be BEST FRIENDS FOREVER. And they stick to it, avenging deaths and swearing allegiances with their relationship as the prime motivator. Many millions died for Xuande's OT3.
Five pages of Main Characters, a map with 50 cities most of them not the ones mentioned, this was worse than reading a Roman biography getting all the names straight.
The abridgement at first left something to be desired, but I realize in 2019 in the West, the entire book would be unwieldy (it is already 615 pages in English) and many of the repetitive sections would get boring. So it is ok.
The characters turn coat more than they change their underwear. And for petty, petty reasons. "To Protect the Mandate of Heaven!" when everybody is clearly in it for their own gain.
Many, many innocent people died and/or conscripted into, meaningless to them wars.
From a story point of view, it starts out reasonably realistic, though I still can't think about the logistics of raising a trained army of 100,000 men on the fly, in the 1st century.
Then it slowly gets odder and odder - a ghost apparition, Daoist priest does magic, reanimated dead bodies, ghost revenges, Kong Ming has seven grains of rice in his mouth when he is buried so he can stop his star falling from heaven (tipping off the other faction), and he succeeds in pushing the star back (post-mortem), ghosts coming for revenge, and, seasoned warlords, suddenly dropping dead from surprise or shock.
Also gunpowder in the 1st century AD.
A second note to the translation, it is all in present tense. Which does link to the original Chinese being basically tenseless (compared to English grammar), but it makes it very very hard to get a sense of timing. It all feels like it is happening in the now, not over 100 years.
I've reread my review (I generally review asap for freshness) and noticed - The story has so many subplots and biplots and time --- over 100 years and at least as many people to start. It makes me forget the scope of the opening lines:
話說天下大勢，分久必合，合久必分。 "For all things under heaven, that long apart must inevitably come together, that long together must inevitable break apart. Thus has it ever been". In truth, this book hits on the transience of all things, empires most absolutely included. (Bromances excluded tho). It's quite an amazing scope.
Steeped deeply in Confucian filial piety, entire clans suffer - mortally - the consequences of almost infantile seeming whims. It's semi-fictional and certainly the shapeshifting Daoist priest and his zombie army is probably fiction, but most people written about here that have lived and died probably did live and die.
From this book, the Chinese have the expression : "Speak of Cao Cao, and Cao Cao arrives", which cognates exactly with our English "Speak of the devil"... which tells you of Cao Cao's nature.
Xuande's a hero mostly because half-way through (spoilers) he has the marvelous idea to not raise an entire city to the ground, with the people. "Don't kill any innocent people!" he orders his army. The wondrous novel idea gains him the hearts of the common people (also there were common people left to give their hearts).
玉可碎而不可改其白，竹可焚而不可毀其節。
Jade may be shattered, but its whiteness remains; bamboo may be burned, but its joints stand straight.
紛紛世事無窮盡，天數茫茫不可逃。
鼎足三分已成夢，後人憑弔空牢騷。
All down the ages rings the note of change,
For fate so rules it; none escapes its sway.
The kingdoms three have vanished as a dream,
The useless misery is ours to grieve.
Read this in college. I have no real opinion on the book, and I didn't have much of one when I read it either (except maybe that I was only reading it because I had to). I can't tell you whether it's a good book or not, and I don't even remember what happened. I'm pretty sure I got a B on the test about this book...
Written in the 14th or 15th century (the exact date is a matter of debate), this historical novel can be a difficult read at times, but I'm glad I took the effort to finish it.
Anyone reading this for the first time may want to start with the afterword in volume IV, and read it up to the point where the author suggests you start reading the novel itself. It will give you a better idea of what the focus of the novel is. This is important because the focus doesn't really emerge until the second volume, and I was somewhat lost throughout the first volume as a result.
Anyone reading this for the first time may want to start with the afterword in volume IV, and read it up to the point where the author suggests you start reading the novel itself. It will give you a better idea of what the focus of the novel is. This is important because the focus doesn't really emerge until the second volume, and I was somewhat lost throughout the first volume as a result.
adventurous
emotional
funny
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
Character
Loveable characters:
Yes
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
adventurous
slow-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
Plot
Strong character development:
Complicated
Loveable characters:
Yes
adventurous
inspiring
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
A mix
Strong character development:
No
Loveable characters:
Yes
Diverse cast of characters:
No
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Complicated