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barry_x's review against another edition
challenging
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
I wasn't feeling this one.
I read the first book a few years ago and remember enjoying it quite a lot despite (or perhaps because of) an incredibly problematic and challenging central character. This book isn't like the first one, and in many respects it 'should' be a better read. The world is better developed, there is a whole lot of complex and challenging character development and the book isn't particularly linear which makes you think throughout.
In this second book, the main character (I still struggle to call him the hero or anti-her0) Jorg Ancrath is king of the little land he took over at the end of the first book, except he has got a huge enemy at his gates wanting to swallow him up and take over his kingdom for the good of the land. And it's his wedding day.
What we have is a book which flits between the wedding day and his battle against the King of Arrow (who seemingly outnumbers him twenty to one) and going back four years earlier to the events just after the events of Prince of Thorns. Within these four years earlier sections we have the diaries of Katherine, his stepmother's sister and also an unreliable narration from Jorg. Both Katherine and Jorg have incomplete and conflicting narratives of events from the time. At times in the narrative we don't know if we are 'four years earlier' in the story or Jorg is remembering or lapsing into unreliable memories or dreams. Katherine in her diaries is much the same. Some of these narratives can be difficult to read in terms of content (memories of sexual violence) and also structure. Since the characters are struggling to piece together their truths, so is the reader. This can be a challenging read at times and it doesn't always hang together as well as it could do, indeed at times I was struggling with the characters and wasn't enjoying the experience.
I wasn't particularly enjoying the setting either. You realise in the first book that the book is set on Earth in a far future, post nuclear holocaust and the lines between science and magic and technology are blurred. Here, rather than the odd nod to the past it seems there are 'old Earth' references in every chapter. There is just a little too much for me. It feels like the past is shoved in, rather than discovered. Do we as humans randomly find culture and artefacts from a few thousand years ago? How much of our culture really goes back that far?
I also find Jorg's abilities quite annoying. In the first book he is a master strategist in combat despite being 13 or 14. There is more of this here. He's great with a sword, a great combat general (and yes he's still genocidal and happy to deploy weapons of mass destruction). Some of it kind of works because I wanted him to overcome this 20 to 1 odds and smiled at a fair bit of it. The challenge I have is that on a few occasions he seemingly has access to a range of magical / mystical powers and weaponry that feels 'game breaking'. Once would be great, but having three or four of these things in a book just made me roll my eyes a little. I have a feeling there is something notable about Jorg and the powers in the third book (at least I hope there is).
Other than Jorg, I felt all the other characters were pretty one dimensional although I did smile (with incredulity at times) at his 12 year old bride and her perspectives. It's not remotely realistic but not offensively so. His band of brothers is still present but they are basically background colour for the book and we really never get to see what matters to any of the characters. It is a very singular focused novel.
And this is what I really like about the book. Half the book is fighting a battle, and the other half is a mixture of unreliable memories and a series of side quests that don't matter in the big picture. It's almost as if the plot doesn't matter, because what this book is about, is Jorg trying to understand his past, understand who he is as a man, and as a ruler. There is a recognition of the suffering he has caused, and the unforgiveable trauma and lives he has destroyed. There is a sorrow to what he has done, and also what he continues to do. He isn't sympathetic as such, but it is a sympathetic interpretation of him as a man who is broken and trying to find his shreds of humanity. There is compassion, care and tenderness throughout the book and perhaps everyone sees it but Jorg. Is he redeemable? Perhaps not. But is he totally and utterly evil and devoid of empathy? I don't think so. I rarely thought of him as selfish or stupid but misguided? Sure. I never saw him as arrogant or cruel, unlike in the first book. I don't think this is a story of redemption - it is still one of sorrow, but it is still a story that attempts to understand. I'll never like Jorg. We're not meant to. But I appreciate this attempt at deconstructing evil and understanding trauma and seeing how empathy and kindness feels when one has rarely experienced it.
For those who appreciate their fantasy all things grim and dark, there is plenty of gory, bloody violence, lots of war and bodies piled up. We're quite limited in political machinations or complexity of plot. It's not quite as sleazy as some entries in the genre though there is one particularly harrowing scene involving the torture and murder of a dog .
It's quite a brave book, departing in tone a little from the first one, and I am intrigued to learn what happens in the third book. I'm not sure of giving this a strong recommendation though, despite the character growth and study there were a few niggles that detracted from my enjoyment.
I read the first book a few years ago and remember enjoying it quite a lot despite (or perhaps because of) an incredibly problematic and challenging central character. This book isn't like the first one, and in many respects it 'should' be a better read. The world is better developed, there is a whole lot of complex and challenging character development and the book isn't particularly linear which makes you think throughout.
In this second book, the main character (I still struggle to call him the hero or anti-her0) Jorg Ancrath is king of the little land he took over at the end of the first book, except he has got a huge enemy at his gates wanting to swallow him up and take over his kingdom for the good of the land. And it's his wedding day.
What we have is a book which flits between the wedding day and his battle against the King of Arrow (who seemingly outnumbers him twenty to one) and going back four years earlier to the events just after the events of Prince of Thorns. Within these four years earlier sections we have the diaries of Katherine, his stepmother's sister and also an unreliable narration from Jorg. Both Katherine and Jorg have incomplete and conflicting narratives of events from the time. At times in the narrative we don't know if we are 'four years earlier' in the story or Jorg is remembering or lapsing into unreliable memories or dreams. Katherine in her diaries is much the same. Some of these narratives can be difficult to read in terms of content (memories of sexual violence) and also structure. Since the characters are struggling to piece together their truths, so is the reader. This can be a challenging read at times and it doesn't always hang together as well as it could do, indeed at times I was struggling with the characters and wasn't enjoying the experience.
I wasn't particularly enjoying the setting either. You realise in the first book that the book is set on Earth in a far future, post nuclear holocaust and the lines between science and magic and technology are blurred. Here, rather than the odd nod to the past it seems there are 'old Earth' references in every chapter. There is just a little too much for me. It feels like the past is shoved in, rather than discovered. Do we as humans randomly find culture and artefacts from a few thousand years ago? How much of our culture really goes back that far?
I also find Jorg's abilities quite annoying. In the first book he is a master strategist in combat despite being 13 or 14. There is more of this here. He's great with a sword, a great combat general (and yes he's still genocidal and happy to deploy weapons of mass destruction). Some of it kind of works because I wanted him to overcome this 20 to 1 odds and smiled at a fair bit of it. The challenge I have is that on a few occasions he seemingly has access to a range of magical / mystical powers and weaponry that feels 'game breaking'. Once would be great, but having three or four of these things in a book just made me roll my eyes a little. I have a feeling there is something notable about Jorg and the powers in the third book (at least I hope there is).
Other than Jorg, I felt all the other characters were pretty one dimensional although I did smile (with incredulity at times) at his 12 year old bride and her perspectives. It's not remotely realistic but not offensively so. His band of brothers is still present but they are basically background colour for the book and we really never get to see what matters to any of the characters. It is a very singular focused novel.
And this is what I really like about the book. Half the book is fighting a battle, and the other half is a mixture of unreliable memories and a series of side quests that don't matter in the big picture. It's almost as if the plot doesn't matter, because what this book is about, is Jorg trying to understand his past, understand who he is as a man, and as a ruler. There is a recognition of the suffering he has caused, and the unforgiveable trauma and lives he has destroyed. There is a sorrow to what he has done, and also what he continues to do. He isn't sympathetic as such, but it is a sympathetic interpretation of him as a man who is broken and trying to find his shreds of humanity. There is compassion, care and tenderness throughout the book and perhaps everyone sees it but Jorg. Is he redeemable? Perhaps not. But is he totally and utterly evil and devoid of empathy? I don't think so. I rarely thought of him as selfish or stupid but misguided? Sure. I never saw him as arrogant or cruel, unlike in the first book. I don't think this is a story of redemption - it is still one of sorrow, but it is still a story that attempts to understand. I'll never like Jorg. We're not meant to. But I appreciate this attempt at deconstructing evil and understanding trauma and seeing how empathy and kindness feels when one has rarely experienced it.
For those who appreciate their fantasy all things grim and dark, there is plenty of gory, bloody violence, lots of war and bodies piled up. We're quite limited in political machinations or complexity of plot. It's not quite as sleazy as some entries in the genre though there is one particularly harrowing scene involving the torture and murder of a dog .
It's quite a brave book, departing in tone a little from the first one, and I am intrigued to learn what happens in the third book. I'm not sure of giving this a strong recommendation though, despite the character growth and study there were a few niggles that detracted from my enjoyment.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal cruelty, Animal death, and War
Moderate: Rape, Torture, Violence, and Gaslighting
Minor: Abortion and Abandonment
garrettcz's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
funny
mysterious
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
This was the weakest in the series but still great! It’s told in a pretty confusing way that’s very different from the rest of the series, but was still a ton of fun to read.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal cruelty, Animal death, Bullying, Child death, Cursing, Death, Genocide, Gore, Sexual content, Torture, Violence, Medical content, Grief, Murder, Pregnancy, War, and Injury/Injury detail
Moderate: Animal cruelty, Animal death, Bullying, Child death, Death, Gore, Infertility, Rape, Sexual assault, Sexual content, Sexual violence, Torture, Blood, Medical content, Grief, Murder, Pregnancy, Abandonment, and Injury/Injury detail
sheyri's review against another edition
dark
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
Actually reading it was fine, but thinking about reading it I was mostly bored.
And I just can't believe a fourteen-year-old would act like that.
And I just can't believe a fourteen-year-old would act like that.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal cruelty, Animal death, Child death, Death, and Violence
Moderate: Rape and Abortion
arkhaic_'s review against another edition
adventurous
dark
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
Content Warnings
Graphic: Violence
Minor: Rape and Sexual assault
hal00alex's review against another edition
dark
emotional
mysterious
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal death, Violence, and War
Moderate: Child death, Gore, Mental illness, Physical abuse, Rape, Self harm, Blood, Murder, Fire/Fire injury, and Sexual harassment
Minor: Excrement and Alcohol
whirl's review
adventurous
dark
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal cruelty, Animal death, Body horror, Child death, Death, Gore, Violence, Blood, Murder, Fire/Fire injury, War, and Injury/Injury detail
Moderate: Infertility, Rape, Abortion, and Pregnancy
Minor: Pedophilia
surdiablo's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
emotional
mysterious
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
Certainly an improvement over the first book. Jorg does grow as a character and develops some sort of concern for others in his own way and is way less edgy, making it much more easy to sympathize with him. It still follows the same formulae as first book however, with higher stakes and a sprinkle of Katherine's journal entries. If you didn't like first book very well because of how annoying Jorg was, this might be an improvement for you. There's also a 'dog torturing' scene that's pretty gruesome so I would recommend skipping that if it's too much, you will know when.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal cruelty, Animal death, Child death, and Violence
Moderate: Body horror
Minor: Mental illness, Miscarriage, and Rape
m3gan0's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
emotional
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Child death, Death, Gore, Rape, Torture, Violence, Blood, Murder, Fire/Fire injury, War, and Injury/Injury detail
Moderate: Animal cruelty and Animal death
Minor: Mental illness, Miscarriage, Suicidal thoughts, Grief, Abortion, and Pregnancy
I have no idea how this trilogy will end at this point but it's been a fantastic (though dark and violent) read so far. I hope book 3 is just as good.michaelferlazzo's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
emotional
mysterious
sad
tense
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
This book is better than Prince of thorns, but it still does not have the amazing prose of Mark Lawrence, his character development is a little too extreme for Jorg to be fully realized. But you can tell his writing is getting better, which led to the book of the ancestor trilogy, and the almost flawless writing of Grey Sister.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal death, Child abuse, Child death, Death, Rape, Sexual violence, Violence, Abortion, and Death of parent
kiriikiri's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Violence