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barry_x's review against another edition
challenging
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
I wasn't feeling this one.
I read the first book a few years ago and remember enjoying it quite a lot despite (or perhaps because of) an incredibly problematic and challenging central character. This book isn't like the first one, and in many respects it 'should' be a better read. The world is better developed, there is a whole lot of complex and challenging character development and the book isn't particularly linear which makes you think throughout.
In this second book, the main character (I still struggle to call him the hero or anti-her0) Jorg Ancrath is king of the little land he took over at the end of the first book, except he has got a huge enemy at his gates wanting to swallow him up and take over his kingdom for the good of the land. And it's his wedding day.
What we have is a book which flits between the wedding day and his battle against the King of Arrow (who seemingly outnumbers him twenty to one) and going back four years earlier to the events just after the events of Prince of Thorns. Within these four years earlier sections we have the diaries of Katherine, his stepmother's sister and also an unreliable narration from Jorg. Both Katherine and Jorg have incomplete and conflicting narratives of events from the time. At times in the narrative we don't know if we are 'four years earlier' in the story or Jorg is remembering or lapsing into unreliable memories or dreams. Katherine in her diaries is much the same. Some of these narratives can be difficult to read in terms of content (memories of sexual violence) and also structure. Since the characters are struggling to piece together their truths, so is the reader. This can be a challenging read at times and it doesn't always hang together as well as it could do, indeed at times I was struggling with the characters and wasn't enjoying the experience.
I wasn't particularly enjoying the setting either. You realise in the first book that the book is set on Earth in a far future, post nuclear holocaust and the lines between science and magic and technology are blurred. Here, rather than the odd nod to the past it seems there are 'old Earth' references in every chapter. There is just a little too much for me. It feels like the past is shoved in, rather than discovered. Do we as humans randomly find culture and artefacts from a few thousand years ago? How much of our culture really goes back that far?
I also find Jorg's abilities quite annoying. In the first book he is a master strategist in combat despite being 13 or 14. There is more of this here. He's great with a sword, a great combat general (and yes he's still genocidal and happy to deploy weapons of mass destruction). Some of it kind of works because I wanted him to overcome this 20 to 1 odds and smiled at a fair bit of it. The challenge I have is that on a few occasions he seemingly has access to a range of magical / mystical powers and weaponry that feels 'game breaking'. Once would be great, but having three or four of these things in a book just made me roll my eyes a little. I have a feeling there is something notable about Jorg and the powers in the third book (at least I hope there is).
Other than Jorg, I felt all the other characters were pretty one dimensional although I did smile (with incredulity at times) at his 12 year old bride and her perspectives. It's not remotely realistic but not offensively so. His band of brothers is still present but they are basically background colour for the book and we really never get to see what matters to any of the characters. It is a very singular focused novel.
And this is what I really like about the book. Half the book is fighting a battle, and the other half is a mixture of unreliable memories and a series of side quests that don't matter in the big picture. It's almost as if the plot doesn't matter, because what this book is about, is Jorg trying to understand his past, understand who he is as a man, and as a ruler. There is a recognition of the suffering he has caused, and the unforgiveable trauma and lives he has destroyed. There is a sorrow to what he has done, and also what he continues to do. He isn't sympathetic as such, but it is a sympathetic interpretation of him as a man who is broken and trying to find his shreds of humanity. There is compassion, care and tenderness throughout the book and perhaps everyone sees it but Jorg. Is he redeemable? Perhaps not. But is he totally and utterly evil and devoid of empathy? I don't think so. I rarely thought of him as selfish or stupid but misguided? Sure. I never saw him as arrogant or cruel, unlike in the first book. I don't think this is a story of redemption - it is still one of sorrow, but it is still a story that attempts to understand. I'll never like Jorg. We're not meant to. But I appreciate this attempt at deconstructing evil and understanding trauma and seeing how empathy and kindness feels when one has rarely experienced it.
For those who appreciate their fantasy all things grim and dark, there is plenty of gory, bloody violence, lots of war and bodies piled up. We're quite limited in political machinations or complexity of plot. It's not quite as sleazy as some entries in the genre though there is one particularly harrowing scene involving the torture and murder of a dog .
It's quite a brave book, departing in tone a little from the first one, and I am intrigued to learn what happens in the third book. I'm not sure of giving this a strong recommendation though, despite the character growth and study there were a few niggles that detracted from my enjoyment.
I read the first book a few years ago and remember enjoying it quite a lot despite (or perhaps because of) an incredibly problematic and challenging central character. This book isn't like the first one, and in many respects it 'should' be a better read. The world is better developed, there is a whole lot of complex and challenging character development and the book isn't particularly linear which makes you think throughout.
In this second book, the main character (I still struggle to call him the hero or anti-her0) Jorg Ancrath is king of the little land he took over at the end of the first book, except he has got a huge enemy at his gates wanting to swallow him up and take over his kingdom for the good of the land. And it's his wedding day.
What we have is a book which flits between the wedding day and his battle against the King of Arrow (who seemingly outnumbers him twenty to one) and going back four years earlier to the events just after the events of Prince of Thorns. Within these four years earlier sections we have the diaries of Katherine, his stepmother's sister and also an unreliable narration from Jorg. Both Katherine and Jorg have incomplete and conflicting narratives of events from the time. At times in the narrative we don't know if we are 'four years earlier' in the story or Jorg is remembering or lapsing into unreliable memories or dreams. Katherine in her diaries is much the same. Some of these narratives can be difficult to read in terms of content (memories of sexual violence) and also structure. Since the characters are struggling to piece together their truths, so is the reader. This can be a challenging read at times and it doesn't always hang together as well as it could do, indeed at times I was struggling with the characters and wasn't enjoying the experience.
I wasn't particularly enjoying the setting either. You realise in the first book that the book is set on Earth in a far future, post nuclear holocaust and the lines between science and magic and technology are blurred. Here, rather than the odd nod to the past it seems there are 'old Earth' references in every chapter. There is just a little too much for me. It feels like the past is shoved in, rather than discovered. Do we as humans randomly find culture and artefacts from a few thousand years ago? How much of our culture really goes back that far?
I also find Jorg's abilities quite annoying. In the first book he is a master strategist in combat despite being 13 or 14. There is more of this here. He's great with a sword, a great combat general (and yes he's still genocidal and happy to deploy weapons of mass destruction). Some of it kind of works because I wanted him to overcome this 20 to 1 odds and smiled at a fair bit of it. The challenge I have is that on a few occasions he seemingly has access to a range of magical / mystical powers and weaponry that feels 'game breaking'. Once would be great, but having three or four of these things in a book just made me roll my eyes a little. I have a feeling there is something notable about Jorg and the powers in the third book (at least I hope there is).
Other than Jorg, I felt all the other characters were pretty one dimensional although I did smile (with incredulity at times) at his 12 year old bride and her perspectives. It's not remotely realistic but not offensively so. His band of brothers is still present but they are basically background colour for the book and we really never get to see what matters to any of the characters. It is a very singular focused novel.
And this is what I really like about the book. Half the book is fighting a battle, and the other half is a mixture of unreliable memories and a series of side quests that don't matter in the big picture. It's almost as if the plot doesn't matter, because what this book is about, is Jorg trying to understand his past, understand who he is as a man, and as a ruler. There is a recognition of the suffering he has caused, and the unforgiveable trauma and lives he has destroyed. There is a sorrow to what he has done, and also what he continues to do. He isn't sympathetic as such, but it is a sympathetic interpretation of him as a man who is broken and trying to find his shreds of humanity. There is compassion, care and tenderness throughout the book and perhaps everyone sees it but Jorg. Is he redeemable? Perhaps not. But is he totally and utterly evil and devoid of empathy? I don't think so. I rarely thought of him as selfish or stupid but misguided? Sure. I never saw him as arrogant or cruel, unlike in the first book. I don't think this is a story of redemption - it is still one of sorrow, but it is still a story that attempts to understand. I'll never like Jorg. We're not meant to. But I appreciate this attempt at deconstructing evil and understanding trauma and seeing how empathy and kindness feels when one has rarely experienced it.
For those who appreciate their fantasy all things grim and dark, there is plenty of gory, bloody violence, lots of war and bodies piled up. We're quite limited in political machinations or complexity of plot. It's not quite as sleazy as some entries in the genre though there is one particularly harrowing scene involving the torture and murder of a dog .
It's quite a brave book, departing in tone a little from the first one, and I am intrigued to learn what happens in the third book. I'm not sure of giving this a strong recommendation though, despite the character growth and study there were a few niggles that detracted from my enjoyment.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal cruelty, Animal death, and War
Moderate: Rape, Torture, Violence, and Gaslighting
Minor: Abortion and Abandonment
garrettcz's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
funny
mysterious
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
This was the weakest in the series but still great! It’s told in a pretty confusing way that’s very different from the rest of the series, but was still a ton of fun to read.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal cruelty, Animal death, Bullying, Child death, Cursing, Death, Genocide, Gore, Sexual content, Torture, Violence, Medical content, Grief, Murder, Pregnancy, War, and Injury/Injury detail
Moderate: Animal cruelty, Animal death, Bullying, Child death, Death, Gore, Infertility, Rape, Sexual assault, Sexual content, Sexual violence, Torture, Blood, Medical content, Grief, Murder, Pregnancy, Abandonment, and Injury/Injury detail
sheyri's review against another edition
dark
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
Actually reading it was fine, but thinking about reading it I was mostly bored.
And I just can't believe a fourteen-year-old would act like that.
And I just can't believe a fourteen-year-old would act like that.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal cruelty, Animal death, Child death, Death, and Violence
Moderate: Rape and Abortion
nerdyforbooks_'s review against another edition
I could not stand Jorg in the first book. Omfg is he the most annoying person ever & not because he’s “evil” or “morally grey.” I wasn’t sure if I planned to continue this series or not because of him. However, everyone says he gets better. The final book is a masterpiece etc etc.
FFS I couldn’t do it. Jorg is better, sure. I guess I don’t remember the first one being this big of a chore to read? IDK. I can handle jumping back & forth on timelines but the points where you’re like wait, wtf just happened? That was a dream? Or a memory we can’t see?
Honestly, I might just not be a fan of Mark Lawrence at this point. The Book that Wouldn’t Burn felt like a chore to get through at times & I started feeling that here. Oh well.
FFS I couldn’t do it. Jorg is better, sure. I guess I don’t remember the first one being this big of a chore to read? IDK. I can handle jumping back & forth on timelines but the points where you’re like wait, wtf just happened? That was a dream? Or a memory we can’t see?
Honestly, I might just not be a fan of Mark Lawrence at this point. The Book that Wouldn’t Burn felt like a chore to get through at times & I started feeling that here. Oh well.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal cruelty and Animal death
hal00alex's review against another edition
dark
emotional
mysterious
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal death, Violence, and War
Moderate: Child death, Gore, Mental illness, Physical abuse, Rape, Self harm, Blood, Murder, Fire/Fire injury, and Sexual harassment
Minor: Excrement and Alcohol
whirl's review
adventurous
dark
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal cruelty, Animal death, Body horror, Child death, Death, Gore, Violence, Blood, Murder, Fire/Fire injury, War, and Injury/Injury detail
Moderate: Infertility, Rape, Abortion, and Pregnancy
Minor: Pedophilia
surdiablo's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
emotional
mysterious
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
Certainly an improvement over the first book. Jorg does grow as a character and develops some sort of concern for others in his own way and is way less edgy, making it much more easy to sympathize with him. It still follows the same formulae as first book however, with higher stakes and a sprinkle of Katherine's journal entries. If you didn't like first book very well because of how annoying Jorg was, this might be an improvement for you. There's also a 'dog torturing' scene that's pretty gruesome so I would recommend skipping that if it's too much, you will know when.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal cruelty, Animal death, Child death, and Violence
Moderate: Body horror
Minor: Mental illness, Miscarriage, and Rape
caia_in_wonderland's review
adventurous
dark
mysterious
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
3.75
It is difficult to understand what keeps driving Jorg Ancrath while death and tragedy follows and so much stands in his way.
The narrative, like in the previous book, goes back and forth four years, this time jumping from the last months of his fourteens, showing him lose his memories after some atrocity and defining moment that he is made or pushed to forget and trap in a box, he also loses a great friend, but sees the world, finds his feelings, gains family and new friends and also a chance, to the day in his late eighteens that he is getting married while reacting to be attacked by the Prince of Arrow, the lauded and prophesied future emperor.
This change in the narrative is sometimes difficult to follow but it does make for a very tense, surprise filled and interesting read.
Still, the question remains for me, what drives him to face and conquer the dreams that Sageous puts in his head? Is another manipulating him instead? On the first book part was revenge part was his brain being played with, but what about now, what drives him to kill everyone and bleed the world so he can become emperor? Not love, not being a good emperor, I don’t think, not even wining the Hundred Years’ War and unifying the kingdoms. Not even power I bet. He seems only mad, broken, lost, and terrifying.
I liked this second book better than the first, the writing has improved and the added details to the plot and character arc were pretty awesome even the brutal ones, but I’m still not wholly convinced with the plot and the drive of the main character, although I like the mystery and glimpses of the past of the Broken Empire and the builders - the ancient people of before, and like the idea of the new awaken and broken veils that give magic and bring forth new inhuman foes, and also like Jorg’s interactions with the others even the gruesome ones, and how he plans his conquering majestic plans, I still can’t rate it higher because I still can’t understand why though, why he does all that? Why not just let it be?
Maybe I’ll get to know the answer on the last one.
The narrative, like in the previous book, goes back and forth four years, this time jumping from the last months of his fourteens, showing him lose his memories after some atrocity and defining moment that he is made or pushed to forget and trap in a box, he also loses a great friend, but sees the world, finds his feelings, gains family and new friends and also a chance, to the day in his late eighteens that he is getting married while reacting to be attacked by the Prince of Arrow, the lauded and prophesied future emperor.
This change in the narrative is sometimes difficult to follow but it does make for a very tense, surprise filled and interesting read.
Still, the question remains for me, what drives him to face and conquer the dreams that Sageous puts in his head? Is another manipulating him instead? On the first book part was revenge part was his brain being played with, but what about now, what drives him to kill everyone and bleed the world so he can become emperor? Not love, not being a good emperor, I don’t think, not even wining the Hundred Years’ War and unifying the kingdoms. Not even power I bet. He seems only mad, broken, lost, and terrifying.
I liked this second book better than the first, the writing has improved and the added details to the plot and character arc were pretty awesome even the brutal ones, but I’m still not wholly convinced with the plot and the drive of the main character, although I like the mystery and glimpses of the past of the Broken Empire and the builders - the ancient people of before, and like the idea of the new awaken and broken veils that give magic and bring forth new inhuman foes, and also like Jorg’s interactions with the others even the gruesome ones, and how he plans his conquering majestic plans, I still can’t rate it higher because I still can’t understand why though, why he does all that? Why not just let it be?
Maybe I’ll get to know the answer on the last one.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Blood, Fire/Fire injury, War, and Injury/Injury detail
Moderate: Adult/minor relationship, Animal death, Body horror, and Gore
Minor: Child death and Rape
cygny's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
emotional
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
"Somewhere along the line Makin turned from my rescuer, sent out by Father to recover me, into a follower, and ever since he decided to follow my lead the man had been teaching me. Not with books and charts like Tutor Lundist but in that sneaky, indirect way the Nuban had, the kind of way that gets under your skin and turns you slowly by example."
I'll start by saying I read this for the most part as audiobook. I had the physical copy from the library but I listened to the most of it, apart from the last 150 pages or so. I'm not sure if it was purely due to the audio or that I would have thought some of the following things if I had just read it.
I was confused several times in the first few hundred pages. We had several time shifts (each chapter did say when we were, but sometimes I really wondered where I was exactly in the story) and added to that the diary, which was from another POV. A lot of things happened quickly, small events following one after the other and I wondered what was the use, why they were mentioned. Most of them made sense in the end, but there were so many that I probably can't even remember it all.
But this being said, I really loved it a lot and do plan on buying the books and reading them again. You can definitely see a change in Jorg. He claims it is due to a certain event but I don't agree with that. I felt he had grown on himself, the fact that he was now responsible for so many, the fact that he had good men who were giving the right example, must have done at least something to him. Don't get me wrong, he is still an evil man who does evil things, but he also does good things. And I felt he didn't just do it for himself or his goals.
I loved the relationship he had with certain characters. I loved some of the new introduced characters and was really sad when some old ones died. I kept waiting for more of them to die but at least some were spared.
Still love the idea of the Builders and to find out extra little fragments about them. Really hope it all will be explained. Also love the name Builders, instead of Old ones or something.
I'm still confused about the magic wielders and what their final goal is. I still wonder about how much of what Jorg has done, really were his ideas and how many were whispered to him. I knew very early on about a certain ghost who was following him but the final discovery really made me so sad for Jorg and made me wonder how many motives were not his own. I hope to find out all about it in the final book.
And then I have all these HBTs (Half Baked Theories). I will forget about them since I can't annotate in audio or library books and that's why I need to reread and add all the stickies.
I'll start by saying I read this for the most part as audiobook. I had the physical copy from the library but I listened to the most of it, apart from the last 150 pages or so. I'm not sure if it was purely due to the audio or that I would have thought some of the following things if I had just read it.
I was confused several times in the first few hundred pages. We had several time shifts (each chapter did say when we were, but sometimes I really wondered where I was exactly in the story) and added to that the diary, which was from another POV. A lot of things happened quickly, small events following one after the other and I wondered what was the use, why they were mentioned. Most of them made sense in the end, but there were so many that I probably can't even remember it all.
But this being said, I really loved it a lot and do plan on buying the books and reading them again. You can definitely see a change in Jorg. He claims it is due to a certain event but I don't agree with that. I felt he had grown on himself, the fact that he was now responsible for so many, the fact that he had good men who were giving the right example, must have done at least something to him. Don't get me wrong, he is still an evil man who does evil things, but he also does good things. And I felt he didn't just do it for himself or his goals.
I loved the relationship he had with certain characters. I loved some of the new introduced characters and was really sad when some old ones died. I kept waiting for more of them to die but at least some were spared.
Still love the idea of the Builders and to find out extra little fragments about them. Really hope it all will be explained. Also love the name Builders, instead of Old ones or something.
I'm still confused about the magic wielders and what their final goal is. I still wonder about how much of what Jorg has done, really were his ideas and how many were whispered to him. I knew very early on about a certain ghost who was following him but the final discovery really made me so sad for Jorg and made me wonder how many motives were not his own. I hope to find out all about it in the final book.
And then I have all these HBTs (Half Baked Theories). I will forget about them since I can't annotate in audio or library books and that's why I need to reread and add all the stickies.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Animal cruelty, Animal death, Child death, Death, and Fire/Fire injury
m3gan0's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
emotional
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Child death, Death, Gore, Rape, Torture, Violence, Blood, Murder, Fire/Fire injury, War, and Injury/Injury detail
Moderate: Animal cruelty and Animal death
Minor: Mental illness, Miscarriage, Suicidal thoughts, Grief, Abortion, and Pregnancy
I have no idea how this trilogy will end at this point but it's been a fantastic (though dark and violent) read so far. I hope book 3 is just as good.