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3.9 AVERAGE
3.9 AVERAGE
adventurous
funny
lighthearted
mysterious
tense
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
A mix
Strong character development:
No
Loveable characters:
Complicated
Diverse cast of characters:
No
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Complicated
Well....that was a disaster.
I've been trying to read more Asian classics, so when I saw that this one was translated by Pearl S Buck, who happens to be my favourite author, I was thrilled. Than I read the book and I wasn't so thrilled. Let me count the ways.
This has to be the most repetitive book I've ever read. The pattern went like this: honor killing. massacre of innocent people. exile. encounter with a good, kind, merciful cannibal. And once you've finished that part of the cycle, it would repeat again. For about a thousand pages. I've never read such a misogynistic 'book'. Then again, I don't generally read misogynistic books.
What upset me most, however, was not the obvious sexism; it was the way it pardoned violence and bullying. People kept saying this was a book of robbers helping the poor fight the rich - sadly, this wasn't that. I would hate to be a peasant in this book, either they're being slaughtered by the rich or slaughtered by the robbers, both saying they have the moral high ground when neither do. Sounds like modern politics, honestly.
I know that hero myths have always been lacking in heroics until more recent centuries. Just look at Gilgamesh, Cuchulain, even the original King Arthur was pretty vile. I should've expected this.
But on the plus side, there are some good things about this book! For example, the warrior women Tall Green Serpent and Goodwife Ku. And that's about it. This was supposed to end with all the robbers being killed, which sadly did not happen.
[b:Dream of the Red Chamber|535739|Dream of the Red Chamber|Xueqin Cao|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1369604121l/535739._SY75_.jpg|523200] remains my favourite Chinese classic. Pretending I've already finished it. The list of Chinese classics and texts I know are: [b:Dream of the Red Chamber|535739|Dream of the Red Chamber|Xueqin Cao|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1369604121l/535739._SY75_.jpg|523200], [b:The Journey to the West, Volume 1|158788|The Journey to the West, Volume 1 (Journey to the West)|Wu Cheng'en|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1347567532l/158788._SY75_.jpg|153262], [b:Strange Tales from a Chinese Studio|155054|Strange Tales from a Chinese Studio|Pu Songling|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1369843631l/155054._SY75_.jpg|149666], [b:The Scholars|1320199|The Scholars|Wu Jingzi|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1182731587l/1320199._SY75_.jpg|1309544], [b:Jin Ping Mei|2979644|Jin Ping Mei (the Golden Lotus)|Lanling Xiaoxiao Sheng|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1348225979l/2979644._SX50_.jpg|3010022], [b:Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Vol. 1 of 2|158771|Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Vol. 1 of 2 (chapter 1-60)|Luo Guanzhong|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1364138285l/158771._SY75_.jpg|70688781], [b:Tao Te Ching|67896|Tao Te Ching|Lao Tzu|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1333578861l/67896._SY75_.jpg|100074], [b:The Analects|27297|The Analects|Confucius|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1309201523l/27297._SY75_.jpg|3320969], [b:Mencius|614121|Mencius|Mencius|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1309210801l/614121._SY75_.jpg|600570], [b:Six Records of a Floating Life|524116|Six Records of a Floating Life|Shěn Fù|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1348155711l/524116._SY75_.jpg|511982]
I've been trying to read more Asian classics, so when I saw that this one was translated by Pearl S Buck, who happens to be my favourite author, I was thrilled. Than I read the book and I wasn't so thrilled. Let me count the ways.
This has to be the most repetitive book I've ever read. The pattern went like this: honor killing. massacre of innocent people. exile. encounter with a good, kind, merciful cannibal. And once you've finished that part of the cycle, it would repeat again. For about a thousand pages. I've never read such a misogynistic 'book'. Then again, I don't generally read misogynistic books.
What upset me most, however, was not the obvious sexism; it was the way it pardoned violence and bullying. People kept saying this was a book of robbers helping the poor fight the rich - sadly, this wasn't that. I would hate to be a peasant in this book, either they're being slaughtered by the rich or slaughtered by the robbers, both saying they have the moral high ground when neither do. Sounds like modern politics, honestly.
I know that hero myths have always been lacking in heroics until more recent centuries. Just look at Gilgamesh, Cuchulain, even the original King Arthur was pretty vile. I should've expected this.
But on the plus side, there are some good things about this book! For example, the warrior women Tall Green Serpent and Goodwife Ku. And that's about it. This was supposed to end with all the robbers being killed, which sadly did not happen.
[b:Dream of the Red Chamber|535739|Dream of the Red Chamber|Xueqin Cao|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1369604121l/535739._SY75_.jpg|523200] remains my favourite Chinese classic. Pretending I've already finished it. The list of Chinese classics and texts I know are: [b:Dream of the Red Chamber|535739|Dream of the Red Chamber|Xueqin Cao|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1369604121l/535739._SY75_.jpg|523200], [b:The Journey to the West, Volume 1|158788|The Journey to the West, Volume 1 (Journey to the West)|Wu Cheng'en|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1347567532l/158788._SY75_.jpg|153262], [b:Strange Tales from a Chinese Studio|155054|Strange Tales from a Chinese Studio|Pu Songling|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1369843631l/155054._SY75_.jpg|149666], [b:The Scholars|1320199|The Scholars|Wu Jingzi|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1182731587l/1320199._SY75_.jpg|1309544], [b:Jin Ping Mei|2979644|Jin Ping Mei (the Golden Lotus)|Lanling Xiaoxiao Sheng|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1348225979l/2979644._SX50_.jpg|3010022], [b:Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Vol. 1 of 2|158771|Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Vol. 1 of 2 (chapter 1-60)|Luo Guanzhong|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1364138285l/158771._SY75_.jpg|70688781], [b:Tao Te Ching|67896|Tao Te Ching|Lao Tzu|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1333578861l/67896._SY75_.jpg|100074], [b:The Analects|27297|The Analects|Confucius|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1309201523l/27297._SY75_.jpg|3320969], [b:Mencius|614121|Mencius|Mencius|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1309210801l/614121._SY75_.jpg|600570], [b:Six Records of a Floating Life|524116|Six Records of a Floating Life|Shěn Fù|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1348155711l/524116._SY75_.jpg|511982]
The uber-source for all Kung Fu, Samurai and ultimately Westerns: Probably there's no way that a Western reader coming upon this many centuries later could understand all the subtleties, but this is a fascinating read. A combination of the Iliad and Robin Hood, but of course in a Chinese context. A great study for compact character development too. One thing that surely does ring true, unfortunately, is the desperation felt by good men forced by a ruthless and incompetent bureaucratic structure, to leave conventional society and forge their own path.
adventurous
dark
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
A mix
Strong character development:
Complicated
Loveable characters:
Complicated
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
Third time's a charm and I finally finished this behemoth.
The prose was a little boring. This, I believe is due to the translation. I also found it a little hard to get into, but once I got used to the style it kept my interest.
The story itself felt rather disjointed during the first third of the book, but began to feel much more coherent at around the half-way mark.
There was also a lot of repetition. Like the exact same scenario happening to several different characters. I'm not sure if this is just the storytelling style of the time it was written in or just that Shi Nai An got tired of coming up with unique back stories for all 108 bandits...
The characters, and there were SO MANY of them, started to really blend together in the last third of the book(in almost every single chapter a new "hero" a.k.a dude who is good at fighting, "joined" a.k.a was coerced into joining, the outlaws) , the majority of them were just names and had no chance to really be developed further than their particular fighting skill. There were a few however, who felt more fleshed out. My personal favourites being Lin Chong and Hu San Niang (who admittedly was one of the underdeveloped characters, but she's also one of the few women who wasn't a horrible person) . However if you ever hear me referring to someone as a "Li Kui", you can be sure that I loathe them with an unquenchable passion...
It certainly has been interesting to read a story so obviously written in a different time and very different culture, and I'm sure many of the culture nuances were lost on me as I read through my 21st century, western lens. Looking forward to reading more classical Chinese novels.
The prose was a little boring. This, I believe is due to the translation. I also found it a little hard to get into, but once I got used to the style it kept my interest.
The story itself felt rather disjointed during the first third of the book, but began to feel much more coherent at around the half-way mark.
There was also a lot of repetition. Like the exact same scenario happening to several different characters. I'm not sure if this is just the storytelling style of the time it was written in or just that Shi Nai An got tired of coming up with unique back stories for all 108 bandits...
The characters, and there were SO MANY of them, started to really blend together in the last third of the book
It certainly has been interesting to read a story so obviously written in a different time and very different culture, and I'm sure many of the culture nuances were lost on me as I read through my 21st century, western lens. Looking forward to reading more classical Chinese novels.
One of the Four (or six) Great Classic Novels of Chinese literature and it is epic. In terms of reading experience, it was similar to Le Morte d'Arthur for me. The first half felt disjointed and repetitive as a hero is introduced, they experience some form of injustice, they end up running from the law, and repeat. The second half, once the band has been formed and the overarching plot develops, is where the novel shines.
On a more philosophical note, Outlaws of the Marsh is a prime example of how, while moral codes change and evolve significantly, human nature remains the same. The actions of the protagonists are often shockingly brutal and cruel, so it can be difficult for the modern reader to view them as righteous heroes (especially Li Kui,who ultimately meets an oddly appropriate end ). And they do value loyalty, generosity, and prowess far above human life. That said, they are committed against the ubiquitous threats of corruption and injustice (or at least what they recognize as such), and in that sense they are heroic.
On a more philosophical note, Outlaws of the Marsh is a prime example of how, while moral codes change and evolve significantly, human nature remains the same. The actions of the protagonists are often shockingly brutal and cruel, so it can be difficult for the modern reader to view them as righteous heroes (especially Li Kui,
This classic of Chinese literature is repetitive, and there may be sooo many characters that it's impossible to remember most of them (even using the character guide in the front of the book--though really, the recurrent characters are the ones who truly matter, and even I could keep them straight reading this over the course of 11 months). But this book is to Chinese literature and culture what something like Pilgrim's Progress is to English/American literature. Only this book is from the 16th/17th century. This edition is a translation of the 1641 70-chapter version.
So, though I did not love the text itself, I very much enjoyed reading something that is so important to Chinese culture and literature. I have seen this book/these characters/the marsh referenced in other places. Now I will be able to better understand those references. I am also very glad I read the intro material both before and after the book itself. Fascinating info on how these bandits follow a Confucian tradition of doing right and holding leaders accountable for doing right as well--and how the 70-chapter version (the original 120 chapters, minus the final 50 that apparently find the outlaws back working for government at the end) was put together during a time in China when one dynasty was ending and another beginning. A tumultuous time, and the ending of the 70-chapter version very much leaves the future of the brigands/heroes/outlaws in doubt. Also very interesting how this was the one Chinese classic that Mao utilized as a Communist book, while other classics were demonized.
I am very glad I read this, but will never read it again. Also, I have so many questions about the logistics of feeding 20,000 outlaws hiding in a Marsh. But that is definitely not the point of this book. LOL.
So, though I did not love the text itself, I very much enjoyed reading something that is so important to Chinese culture and literature. I have seen this book/these characters/the marsh referenced in other places. Now I will be able to better understand those references. I am also very glad I read the intro material both before and after the book itself. Fascinating info on how these bandits follow a Confucian tradition of doing right and holding leaders accountable for doing right as well--and how the 70-chapter version (the original 120 chapters, minus the final 50 that apparently find the outlaws back working for government at the end) was put together during a time in China when one dynasty was ending and another beginning. A tumultuous time, and the ending of the 70-chapter version very much leaves the future of the brigands/heroes/outlaws in doubt. Also very interesting how this was the one Chinese classic that Mao utilized as a Communist book, while other classics were demonized.
I am very glad I read this, but will never read it again. Also, I have so many questions about the logistics of feeding 20,000 outlaws hiding in a Marsh. But that is definitely not the point of this book. LOL.
adventurous
lighthearted
fast-paced
It has always bugged me to no end that the classics in Chinese lit never make the 'longest books' lists in the Western world (though I did come across a Wiki article that had Romance of the 3 Kingdoms on it)... not because they aren't long enough (this one at 2149 is like reading War and Peace, twice) but because no one over here reads them. They're good! Seriously - no one does drama (especially family drama) quite like Chinese lit.
With that said Outlaws of Marsh (aka: Water Margin) was totally different than a lot of other Chinese lit. It reads more like a ton of little tales all loosely woven together. There are 108 main characters (the outlaws) and loads of villains and other characters - a lot to keep track of but some of the main outlaws and villains reappear throughout which gives it its continuity. The biggest adjustment for me was the way it's told / written. It's SO straightforward and lacking in descriptive beauty. Sentences like 'they rode to the inn and had a conversation. They stopped their conversation and tied their horses." - If you can look past that and read the tales for what they are you'll like it.
A common thread it has with other Chinese lit books I've read is the inclusion of magic. The outlaws are reincarnations of demons let loose by a corrupt official (the underlying theme of the entire work is men battling the corruptness of the government & other men) and of course there are magical feats of strength, weird dreams, and leg scrolls that make you run super fast (< totally want some of these for myself).
All in all - this is essentially a book about guys, martial arts, and drinking (seriously omg I wish it came with a key for measurements of liquid back in 14th century China because these outlaws drank a ton every other page) but I really enjoyed all the tales (especially those of the 3 lady outlaws) a lot.
With that said Outlaws of Marsh (aka: Water Margin) was totally different than a lot of other Chinese lit. It reads more like a ton of little tales all loosely woven together. There are 108 main characters (the outlaws) and loads of villains and other characters - a lot to keep track of but some of the main outlaws and villains reappear throughout which gives it its continuity. The biggest adjustment for me was the way it's told / written. It's SO straightforward and lacking in descriptive beauty. Sentences like 'they rode to the inn and had a conversation. They stopped their conversation and tied their horses." - If you can look past that and read the tales for what they are you'll like it.
A common thread it has with other Chinese lit books I've read is the inclusion of magic. The outlaws are reincarnations of demons let loose by a corrupt official (the underlying theme of the entire work is men battling the corruptness of the government & other men) and of course there are magical feats of strength, weird dreams, and leg scrolls that make you run super fast (< totally want some of these for myself).
All in all - this is essentially a book about guys, martial arts, and drinking (seriously omg I wish it came with a key for measurements of liquid back in 14th century China because these outlaws drank a ton every other page) but I really enjoyed all the tales (especially those of the 3 lady outlaws) a lot.
Very readable for a 450+ year old book, if you enjoy martial arts with a touch of magic, this can be a fun read. This translation is much earthier than others and I suspect closer to the original. You will find such heroes as drunken Sagacious Lu, who has a tendency to smash things up. and slimy Pecker Head. It's one of those books that young scholars would sneak into their rooms, it wasn't considered fit material for reading. Think feudal pulp fiction.
With 108 heroes, that start to blend together and over 2,000 pages, it's worthy of a Sanderson. Sold as a serial, each chapter ends with, "...if you want to find out, read the next chapter".
One down side, typical of all old literature is that there are very few female heroes or decent female characters.
I've only read the first volume, need to login to Link+ for more.
With 108 heroes, that start to blend together and over 2,000 pages, it's worthy of a Sanderson. Sold as a serial, each chapter ends with, "...if you want to find out, read the next chapter".
One down side, typical of all old literature is that there are very few female heroes or decent female characters.
I've only read the first volume, need to login to Link+ for more.