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4.11 AVERAGE
4.11 AVERAGE
challenging
informative
inspiring
reflective
medium-paced
Монументальный труд, который наглядно демонстрирует, почему мысль "женщина — это человек" многим до сих пор кажется революционной, а то и вовсе дикой. Читать всем, мужчинам особенно.
informative
inspiring
reflective
medium-paced
The Second Sex
Warning this is basically gibberish I got 4 hours of sleep and read like 200pages today my brain is mush.
God damn this was a marathon, honestly a 2.5/3 star reading experience cuz i kinda forced myself to finish it b4 starting another book. I would recommend reading it either with a physical copy or like a chapter a week to make it less boring. Bro really uses a lot of fuckin words to analyze shit. But the analysis is quite good. She can come across misogynistic until you realize that the “woman” that she is saying all this bad stuff about is the social construct, not the sex. I really liked this style of approaching feminism being it kind of echos a lot of my complaints about modern gender discourse. Two me there are two main ways to approach the future of Gender: 1 work towards abolishing it/making it so inconsequential that it doesn’t impact societal institutions 2. Raise the “woman” and “femininity” to the standards of the masculine world. After reading this I definitely prefer the first one because I personally think its kind of silly to try to revolt against gender oppression by incorporating liberation into the gender ideology created by the pressure. If gender evolved under the assumption that woman was to be othered, can liberation be achieved without a restructuring of our institutions? One example from the book: the idea of doing your make up and dressing up “for yourself” is a slippery slope because on some level you are still dressing for others, even if you are deriving pleasure from looking sexy on some level that pleasure comes from a satisfaction at looking attractive to the other sex. Not totally sure what to think about that but def a thinker. Simone, throughout the book, traces “feminine” traits and values and how they are tailor made for positing the woman as an object. Favorite chapters were the one on marriage, the one on sexuality, and the chapter on social life
Least fav chapters/sections were the psychoanalysis section but if u fuck with that (cringe) you might like it (Adam).
Quotes that caught my eye:
“Treasure, Prey, game, risk, muse, guide, judge, mediator, mirror, the woman is the other in which the subject surpasses himself without being limited, who opposes him without negating him; she is the Other who let’s herself be annexed to him without ceasing to be the Other. And for this she is so necessary to man’s joy and his triumph that if she did not exist, men would have had to invent her. They did invent her.”
“Woman is doomed to immorality because morality for her consists in embodying an inhuman entity”
“The spouses together submit to the oppression of an institution they have not created.”
“Dressing has a twofold significance: it is meant to show the woman’s social standing, but at the same time it concretizes feminine narcissism; it is her uniform and her attire; the woman who suffers from not “doing” anything thinks she is expressing her “being” through her dress.”
Reactions I wrote down while reading:
The first chapter reads like a mf bio textbook why she talkin bout “the male sperm possesses a thin tail”
Naw she just said “both the sperm and the egg give up their individuality” I guess true but I don’t think my swimmers have much individuality to begin with (I do understand what she’s saying it’s just making me teehee a little)
On a real note tho this is pretty impressive because the stuff she wrote about biological sex vs Gender 80 years ago is like exactly how I’ve heard it explained now
Second chapter is on psychoanalysis which I already see as a borderline pseudoscientific field cuz it relies so heavily on the Lense you use during analysis and it doesn’t seem like psychoanalysts recognize that often enough. She serves in this chapter
Third one is about historical materialism. I don’t disagree with a lot of what she says but it seems a little nit picky. Like the historical materialist view of the origin of sexism (basically via division of labor and societal development and the higher value of male labor due to immutable biological characteristics) has a lot of value. Obviously it’s not the complete picture which is what she is saying. Interesting points about reproduction
Part 2 (History): boring but necessary historical deconstruction of woman’s positions throughout various time and locations.
Especially interesting points about the link between private property and the “sin of adultery” sort of feels like this one might’ve stuck around…. Comparisons between various structures of societies and how women are treated points to the relationship btwn patriarchy and capitalism.
Also a poignant breakdown of the construct of marriage and how it constantly robs the wife of her individuality at the least, or her rights and bodily autonomy at the worst.
Historical tracing of abortion was very interesting. I knew that Christianity endows a soul to the fetus but I did not know that it was essentially the first to do so and thus spread anti abortion sentiment across western civilization.
Part 3: Myths: Disgust and superstition over menstruation stemming from the horrors of fertility!?
Most fascinating section to me was the one about man projecting the powers of judging value on women. Like objectifying women but in a way that makes it so that man must seek out woman as his “reward” I don’t think I explained it well but it was cooler in the text I promise.
Vol2
Really interesting ideas about what causes girls to “stan”. How it makes love to be an abstract and subjective experience, one where she can feel the experiences of love but not authentically, not with any real engagement because of the impossibility of any real rapport between her and them.
The chapter on sexuality serves major cunty
Ch5 marriage:
Ch 7 social Life
By dressing up she (on some level) accepts her position as sex object
To care too much about how one looks to to accept oneself as an object
To dress for oneself is normally a myth outside of the asylum
Very different analysis of Man’s vs Woman’s friendships than I’ve heard before.
Monogamy necessarily leads to adultery if in action or only in thoughts - Engels
Ch8 prostitution and Heteaeras
“From an economic point of view, [the prostitute’s] situation is symmetrical to the Married woman’s. ‘Between those who sell themselves through prostitution and those who sell themselves through marriage, the only difference resides in the price and length of the contract’”
Ch10: women and girls flock more often and with more aggression to religion because it provides a mirage of sexual equality, if gods judgement doesn’t depend on the physical world she can justify being materially oppressed.
Ch11 The Narcissist
Since woman doesn’t have the same opportunities for trancendance seven posits herself as the “goal” leading to more frequent narcissism
Women are more vulnerable to bad faith decisions about what they are (eg green is my color, I like X musician, or X fashion) and stick to it even if it’s inauthentic or in bad faith. Essentially they make a character with a mismatch of traits and play that role (her words not mine)
Ch 12: the woman in love
Woman often loves dead or inaccessible men because she can hail him as a god, such is her urge (women have a much higher importance placed on “love” than men due to their lack of freedom to pursue other ventures). Any real partner will inevitably fail her in one way or another as they are human and not god
True fulfilling love cannot exist between a “man” and a “woman” only between 2 individual subjects who both transcend themselves in each other. The socially constructed, oppressive roles have too many contradictions and necessarily cause resentment and imbalance.
Mystic fanaticism (religion, gurus, doctrines), love, and narcissism are all different attempts for individual salvation but they are all unsuccessful because she has no grasp on human society. The only way to to authentically realize her freedom is to project it via positive action onto the world.
Ch14: towards liberation
It is hard for modern women trying to hold onto femininity while acting positively on the world around her because she then has to uphold the more traditional values (dressing to please, keeping a clean house etc) as well as be an independent individual. She feels an urge to accept herself in the present and the past by continuing some of the original traits of femininity. She is stuck between the masculine world, where she still has less power than man and the feminine world where she is urged to give up her tangible freedom
Warning this is basically gibberish I got 4 hours of sleep and read like 200pages today my brain is mush.
God damn this was a marathon, honestly a 2.5/3 star reading experience cuz i kinda forced myself to finish it b4 starting another book. I would recommend reading it either with a physical copy or like a chapter a week to make it less boring. Bro really uses a lot of fuckin words to analyze shit. But the analysis is quite good. She can come across misogynistic until you realize that the “woman” that she is saying all this bad stuff about is the social construct, not the sex. I really liked this style of approaching feminism being it kind of echos a lot of my complaints about modern gender discourse. Two me there are two main ways to approach the future of Gender: 1 work towards abolishing it/making it so inconsequential that it doesn’t impact societal institutions 2. Raise the “woman” and “femininity” to the standards of the masculine world. After reading this I definitely prefer the first one because I personally think its kind of silly to try to revolt against gender oppression by incorporating liberation into the gender ideology created by the pressure. If gender evolved under the assumption that woman was to be othered, can liberation be achieved without a restructuring of our institutions? One example from the book: the idea of doing your make up and dressing up “for yourself” is a slippery slope because on some level you are still dressing for others, even if you are deriving pleasure from looking sexy on some level that pleasure comes from a satisfaction at looking attractive to the other sex. Not totally sure what to think about that but def a thinker. Simone, throughout the book, traces “feminine” traits and values and how they are tailor made for positing the woman as an object. Favorite chapters were the one on marriage, the one on sexuality, and the chapter on social life
Least fav chapters/sections were the psychoanalysis section but if u fuck with that (cringe) you might like it (Adam).
Quotes that caught my eye:
“Treasure, Prey, game, risk, muse, guide, judge, mediator, mirror, the woman is the other in which the subject surpasses himself without being limited, who opposes him without negating him; she is the Other who let’s herself be annexed to him without ceasing to be the Other. And for this she is so necessary to man’s joy and his triumph that if she did not exist, men would have had to invent her. They did invent her.”
“Woman is doomed to immorality because morality for her consists in embodying an inhuman entity”
“The spouses together submit to the oppression of an institution they have not created.”
“Dressing has a twofold significance: it is meant to show the woman’s social standing, but at the same time it concretizes feminine narcissism; it is her uniform and her attire; the woman who suffers from not “doing” anything thinks she is expressing her “being” through her dress.”
Reactions I wrote down while reading:
The first chapter reads like a mf bio textbook why she talkin bout “the male sperm possesses a thin tail”
Naw she just said “both the sperm and the egg give up their individuality” I guess true but I don’t think my swimmers have much individuality to begin with (I do understand what she’s saying it’s just making me teehee a little)
On a real note tho this is pretty impressive because the stuff she wrote about biological sex vs Gender 80 years ago is like exactly how I’ve heard it explained now
Second chapter is on psychoanalysis which I already see as a borderline pseudoscientific field cuz it relies so heavily on the Lense you use during analysis and it doesn’t seem like psychoanalysts recognize that often enough. She serves in this chapter
Third one is about historical materialism. I don’t disagree with a lot of what she says but it seems a little nit picky. Like the historical materialist view of the origin of sexism (basically via division of labor and societal development and the higher value of male labor due to immutable biological characteristics) has a lot of value. Obviously it’s not the complete picture which is what she is saying. Interesting points about reproduction
Part 2 (History): boring but necessary historical deconstruction of woman’s positions throughout various time and locations.
Especially interesting points about the link between private property and the “sin of adultery” sort of feels like this one might’ve stuck around…. Comparisons between various structures of societies and how women are treated points to the relationship btwn patriarchy and capitalism.
Also a poignant breakdown of the construct of marriage and how it constantly robs the wife of her individuality at the least, or her rights and bodily autonomy at the worst.
Historical tracing of abortion was very interesting. I knew that Christianity endows a soul to the fetus but I did not know that it was essentially the first to do so and thus spread anti abortion sentiment across western civilization.
Part 3: Myths: Disgust and superstition over menstruation stemming from the horrors of fertility!?
Most fascinating section to me was the one about man projecting the powers of judging value on women. Like objectifying women but in a way that makes it so that man must seek out woman as his “reward” I don’t think I explained it well but it was cooler in the text I promise.
Vol2
Really interesting ideas about what causes girls to “stan”. How it makes love to be an abstract and subjective experience, one where she can feel the experiences of love but not authentically, not with any real engagement because of the impossibility of any real rapport between her and them.
The chapter on sexuality serves major cunty
Ch5 marriage:
Ch 7 social Life
By dressing up she (on some level) accepts her position as sex object
To care too much about how one looks to to accept oneself as an object
To dress for oneself is normally a myth outside of the asylum
Very different analysis of Man’s vs Woman’s friendships than I’ve heard before.
Monogamy necessarily leads to adultery if in action or only in thoughts - Engels
Ch8 prostitution and Heteaeras
“From an economic point of view, [the prostitute’s] situation is symmetrical to the Married woman’s. ‘Between those who sell themselves through prostitution and those who sell themselves through marriage, the only difference resides in the price and length of the contract’”
Ch10: women and girls flock more often and with more aggression to religion because it provides a mirage of sexual equality, if gods judgement doesn’t depend on the physical world she can justify being materially oppressed.
Ch11 The Narcissist
Since woman doesn’t have the same opportunities for trancendance seven posits herself as the “goal” leading to more frequent narcissism
Women are more vulnerable to bad faith decisions about what they are (eg green is my color, I like X musician, or X fashion) and stick to it even if it’s inauthentic or in bad faith. Essentially they make a character with a mismatch of traits and play that role (her words not mine)
Ch 12: the woman in love
Woman often loves dead or inaccessible men because she can hail him as a god, such is her urge (women have a much higher importance placed on “love” than men due to their lack of freedom to pursue other ventures). Any real partner will inevitably fail her in one way or another as they are human and not god
True fulfilling love cannot exist between a “man” and a “woman” only between 2 individual subjects who both transcend themselves in each other. The socially constructed, oppressive roles have too many contradictions and necessarily cause resentment and imbalance.
Mystic fanaticism (religion, gurus, doctrines), love, and narcissism are all different attempts for individual salvation but they are all unsuccessful because she has no grasp on human society. The only way to to authentically realize her freedom is to project it via positive action onto the world.
Ch14: towards liberation
It is hard for modern women trying to hold onto femininity while acting positively on the world around her because she then has to uphold the more traditional values (dressing to please, keeping a clean house etc) as well as be an independent individual. She feels an urge to accept herself in the present and the past by continuing some of the original traits of femininity. She is stuck between the masculine world, where she still has less power than man and the feminine world where she is urged to give up her tangible freedom
challenging
informative
reflective
slow-paced
hopeful
informative
inspiring
reflective
slow-paced
emotional
reflective
"It is a strange experience for an individual recognizing himself as subject, autonomy, and transcendence, as an absolute, to discover inferiority as a given essence—in his self: it is a strange experience for one who posits himself for himself as One to be revealed to himself as alterity. That is what happens to the little girl when, learning about the world, she grasps herself as a woman in it."
Totally recommend it as the first introduction to feminism.
I didn't necessarily "like" this book, but I do think it's important for women to read it. Some outdated material, but also good historical background and her societal assessments still ring true in some ways.
hopeful
informative
inspiring
reflective
slow-paced