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hollowpointe's review against another edition
challenging
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.75
Content Warnings
Minor: Abandonment, Xenophobia, Suicide, Death of parent, Kidnapping, Colonisation, Addiction, Violence, Toxic relationship, Drug use, Confinement, Slavery, Incest, Grief, Trafficking, War, Religious bigotry, Death, Blood, Body horror, Infertility, Medical trauma, Medical content, Stalking, Child death, Pregnancy, and Suicidal thoughts
atoft's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
emotional
mysterious
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.5
"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
The second of the Great Dune Trilogy picks up ten years after the events of the first. A decade into his reign as emperor, Maud'Dib's much foretold jihad rages across the galaxy. Meanwhile on Arrakis, a conspiracy of the Atreides' enemies assemble to bring an end to him and his lineage.
Dune Messiah takes a somewhat interesting approach to the story it depicts. While galaxy-spanning events on an almost unimaginable scale are taking place, the book stays squarely focused on the scheming of a few key figures in the conspiracy, on the increasing despondence of Paul and his spiralling visions of the future, and on his concubine Chani and sister Alia and their uneasy roles within the society and religion that he has built up around them.
The conspiracy plot feels very slow paced. While it's interesting to see the uncomfortable alliance between factions such as the Bene Gesserit and the Tleilaxu, their plans and intentions remain too vague for too long to be really engaging. That said, it is interesting to explore the various ways that they try to prevent Paul's prescience from detecting their plot, including the exploitation of a Guild Steersman with oracular powers that are capable of interfering with his vision. Of note too is the conspiracy's creation of a golem or "ghola" in the form of the late Duncan Idaho, raising questions about the nature of memory and identity.
Perhaps more intriguing is the exploration of the new society being constructed on Arrakis, in which Paul takes the role of a godlike religious figurehead, with Alia as a mysterious prophet. Billions die in a holy war raging far away, which Paul seems at most mildly miffed about, convinced that this is still the best path forward for the galaxy. Despite the things he's willing to do, and his absolute power and influence, he still believes he's doing the right thing, and is still obsessed with steering his way to the best path through the uncertain and bloody future of his visions. The way the Fremen, seen through Chani, Paul's right hand Stilgar, and the general population, are affected by this sweeping new order is effectively ambiguous. Are the people really better off with this path to a green Arrakis, with this new religious zealotry thrust upon them?
The conspiracy comes to a head in a way that is ultimatelyfatal for both Chani and Paul, but in failing to end the family line brings forth the question of what will become of Arrakis, and the empire, in the next generation?
As with the previous book, Dune Messiah certainly has its problematic elements. The female characters remain too often objects to be used by the plot, and are most relevant in their potential to produce offspring. Another example is in the treatment of Paul's wife, the Princess Irulan, who disappears entirely from the book once her purpose in the conspiracy has been served, and mother Jessica, who is barely present at all.
Dune Messiah digs even deeper into the rich, intricate world established by its predecessor. It's filled with moral ambiguity, mysterious premonitions, and vast power struggles. Compared to its predecessor though, it can feel a little sluggish, with less of a strongly defined central plot around which to hang its detailed tapestry. As a result, it's perhaps a less satisfying experience in its own right.
"The flesh surrenders itself, he thought. Eternity takes back its own. Our bodies stirred these waters briefly, danced with a certain intoxication before the love of life and self, dealt with a few strange ideas, then submitted to the instruments of Time. What can we say of this? I occurred. I am not... yet, I occurred."
The second of the Great Dune Trilogy picks up ten years after the events of the first. A decade into his reign as emperor, Maud'Dib's much foretold jihad rages across the galaxy. Meanwhile on Arrakis, a conspiracy of the Atreides' enemies assemble to bring an end to him and his lineage.
Dune Messiah takes a somewhat interesting approach to the story it depicts. While galaxy-spanning events on an almost unimaginable scale are taking place, the book stays squarely focused on the scheming of a few key figures in the conspiracy, on the increasing despondence of Paul and his spiralling visions of the future, and on his concubine Chani and sister Alia and their uneasy roles within the society and religion that he has built up around them.
The conspiracy plot feels very slow paced. While it's interesting to see the uncomfortable alliance between factions such as the Bene Gesserit and the Tleilaxu, their plans and intentions remain too vague for too long to be really engaging. That said, it is interesting to explore the various ways that they try to prevent Paul's prescience from detecting their plot, including the exploitation of a Guild Steersman with oracular powers that are capable of interfering with his vision. Of note too is the conspiracy's creation of a golem or "ghola" in the form of the late Duncan Idaho, raising questions about the nature of memory and identity.
Perhaps more intriguing is the exploration of the new society being constructed on Arrakis, in which Paul takes the role of a godlike religious figurehead, with Alia as a mysterious prophet. Billions die in a holy war raging far away, which Paul seems at most mildly miffed about, convinced that this is still the best path forward for the galaxy. Despite the things he's willing to do, and his absolute power and influence, he still believes he's doing the right thing, and is still obsessed with steering his way to the best path through the uncertain and bloody future of his visions. The way the Fremen, seen through Chani, Paul's right hand Stilgar, and the general population, are affected by this sweeping new order is effectively ambiguous. Are the people really better off with this path to a green Arrakis, with this new religious zealotry thrust upon them?
The conspiracy comes to a head in a way that is ultimately
As with the previous book, Dune Messiah certainly has its problematic elements. The female characters remain too often objects to be used by the plot, and are most relevant in their potential to produce offspring. Another example is in the treatment of Paul's wife, the Princess Irulan, who disappears entirely from the book once her purpose in the conspiracy has been served, and mother Jessica, who is barely present at all.
Dune Messiah digs even deeper into the rich, intricate world established by its predecessor. It's filled with moral ambiguity, mysterious premonitions, and vast power struggles. Compared to its predecessor though, it can feel a little sluggish, with less of a strongly defined central plot around which to hang its detailed tapestry. As a result, it's perhaps a less satisfying experience in its own right.
"The flesh surrenders itself, he thought. Eternity takes back its own. Our bodies stirred these waters briefly, danced with a certain intoxication before the love of life and self, dealt with a few strange ideas, then submitted to the instruments of Time. What can we say of this? I occurred. I am not... yet, I occurred."
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death, War, Violence, and Murder
bergha1998's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
emotional
reflective
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
The main theme of this book is how power corrupts. It takes the whole Dune series in a completely different trajectory. We watch Paul in Dune and believe him to be the “savior,” but in this one we see that even he falls when given absolute power.
“They’re trained to believe? Not to know. Belief can be manipulated. Only knowledge is dangerous.”
“There is nothing firm, nothing balanced, nothing durable in all the universe—that nothing remains in its state, that each day, sometimes each hour, brings change.”
“If you need something to worship, then worship life—all life, every last crawling bit of it! We’re all in this beauty together!”
“They’re trained to believe? Not to know. Belief can be manipulated. Only knowledge is dangerous.”
“There is nothing firm, nothing balanced, nothing durable in all the universe—that nothing remains in its state, that each day, sometimes each hour, brings change.”
“If you need something to worship, then worship life—all life, every last crawling bit of it! We’re all in this beauty together!”
Content Warnings
Graphic: Slavery, Drug use, Drug abuse, Gun violence, Infertility, Murder, Genocide, Cursing, Fire/Fire injury, Violence, Colonisation, Grief, Injury/Injury detail, Death of parent, Pregnancy, Death, War, and Addiction
camelliagwerm's review against another edition
dark
emotional
sad
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.5
Frank Herbert giveth (giving me two girlbosses) and Frank Herbert taketh (pulls out some absolutely fucking insane plot points that I wish to repress forever)
Content Warnings
Graphic: Violence, Death, and War
Moderate: Adult/minor relationship, Pregnancy, and Injury/Injury detail
Minor: Infertility and Incest
dannilmp's review against another edition
adventurous
mysterious
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.0
This book felt like a breath of fresh air compared to the long haul that Dune felt. Dune Messiah felt like a completely different novel with a whole new cast of characters. Following a large time skip from the final events of the previous book, here we see the fallout of Leto I's actions of the first book. Boy are they some severe consequences! In this section of the story, he will try to please everyone before making a final choice on who his actions will save.
Of all the books in the series, this one didn't stick out much to me so it's hard to think of anything I actually enjoyed while reading it as I write this review months after I finished the novel. Watching the plot against Leto unfold was quite interesting, due to Leto's character I didn't think they would be able to plot anything against him at all without him being able to detect and ruin it.
Sometimes, the writing in this book was not great, especially when it came to Leto I starting to monologue on certain mundane things. I know he has all these great powers now but, it seemed to me that he just enjoyed hearing the sound of his own voice by trying to philosophise all these little things. That or he just really didn't like talking to some people and wanted to bore them to sleep?
Of all the books in the series, this one didn't stick out much to me so it's hard to think of anything I actually enjoyed while reading it as I write this review months after I finished the novel. Watching the plot against Leto unfold was quite interesting, due to Leto's character I didn't think they would be able to plot anything against him at all without him being able to detect and ruin it.
Sometimes, the writing in this book was not great, especially when it came to Leto I starting to monologue on certain mundane things. I know he has all these great powers now but, it seemed to me that he just enjoyed hearing the sound of his own voice by trying to philosophise all these little things. That or he just really didn't like talking to some people and wanted to bore them to sleep?
Content Warnings
Graphic: Pregnancy, Violence, and Death
Moderate: Injury/Injury detail
Minor: Incest
danaaliyalevinson's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
emotional
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
So, I love the first book.
This one felt like a prolonged first act to a new phase of the story, not always in the best way. I also felt like some of the best characters were sidelined or not in it at all.
That said, I appreciated the ending and how it clearly sets up a new phase. The palace intrigue is wonderful as always. And its commentary on savior complexes still really works here, maybe even better than the first book.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Violence, War, Death, and Injury/Injury detail
njthk's review against another edition
challenging
dark
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? N/A
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
1.0
Whole lot of politics.
Feels like an intermission to hopefully Set up the Next book.
1st one was better, you could see it as a Stand alone book.
As always dune is cool but exhausting to read.
Feels like an intermission to hopefully Set up the Next book.
1st one was better, you could see it as a Stand alone book.
As always dune is cool but exhausting to read.
Content Warnings
Moderate: Adult/minor relationship, Gore, and Violence
decapode's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
YES. just yes. satisfying and heartwrenching all at once. herbert's vision finally made clear to those of us who couldn't really get it while reading the original. my second read was so much more satisfying than the first; previously, i'd probably give this a 4.
Content Warnings
Moderate: Pregnancy and Violence
Minor: Drug use, Suicidal thoughts, Suicide, Addiction, Drug abuse, Incest, and War
muriel_r's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
emotional
inspiring
mysterious
reflective
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
Content Warnings
Moderate: War
Minor: Child death and Violence
woolgathering_jane's review against another edition
challenging
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
2.5
Reason is the first victim of strong emotion," Scytale murmured.
Content Warnings
Moderate: Violence, Death, and Murder
Minor: War and Genocide