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thekarpuk's review against another edition
2.0
The most effective movie moment on writing I've ever seen came in "Wonder Boys" when Rip Torn very dramatically intones, "I...am... A WRITER!" It's said without any trace of irony. This is a common feature in writers both amateur and professional. No empathy, no sense of irony.
If you've seen a lecture about story structure, you've probably been listening to someone regurgitate this same set of values.
It's doubly funny because from what I can tell, Vogler essentially rewrote Joseph Campbell while dumbing it down for writers.
You learn about a set of archetypes, then a series of steps that Campbell suggests are Jungian archetypes that crop up everywhere.
I find this whole monomyth concept thoroughly overstated. Many of these points are so vague as to be meaningless, while others can be simplified or even removed. Books like "Save the Cat" suggest that a writer must follow all of them. Vogler at least has the decency to suggest that these are merely guides, not rules.
I don't think Joseph Campbell did the work he did because he wanted to create easy lesson for hacky screenwriters (for some reason all these books seemed geared towards movies). He seemed to just find the reoccuring events of fiction fascinating.
The thing is, these archetypes only really seem good for creating a boy's first adventure. Many mature story diverge so greatly from the formula that it's more of an act of creativity to make them fit.
When I was at the GDC this year, I listened to a two hour lecture by a member of the Pixar writing staff. Here's their story structure:
Exposition
Inciting Incident
Progressive Complications
Climax
Resolution
Funny how the formula used by one of the most successful studios is roughly the same structure explained to me in grade school.
Though there were a few interesting points in this fairly thick book, I feel like these guides succeed and keep getting written for all the wrong reasons.
Wannabe writers want a shortcut. They want a blue print to art, a way to bypass understanding things like human empathy, harnessing irony, or the need to practice. They don't want to put in the 10,000 hours of work for mastery suggested by the book Outliers. Writing was a wild hair urge summoned up in college, and they want results right-the-hell now!
A lot of the things you need to know about writing can be gleaned from a careful examination of what makes you care about the works you love. Ira Glass once stated that people get into writing because they have good taste, and want to add to the amazing conversation of ideas that their taste has created.
To me the best advice on the matter is, "You should write more. You should read more." And pay attention while you do both.
If you've seen a lecture about story structure, you've probably been listening to someone regurgitate this same set of values.
It's doubly funny because from what I can tell, Vogler essentially rewrote Joseph Campbell while dumbing it down for writers.
You learn about a set of archetypes, then a series of steps that Campbell suggests are Jungian archetypes that crop up everywhere.
I find this whole monomyth concept thoroughly overstated. Many of these points are so vague as to be meaningless, while others can be simplified or even removed. Books like "Save the Cat" suggest that a writer must follow all of them. Vogler at least has the decency to suggest that these are merely guides, not rules.
I don't think Joseph Campbell did the work he did because he wanted to create easy lesson for hacky screenwriters (for some reason all these books seemed geared towards movies). He seemed to just find the reoccuring events of fiction fascinating.
The thing is, these archetypes only really seem good for creating a boy's first adventure. Many mature story diverge so greatly from the formula that it's more of an act of creativity to make them fit.
When I was at the GDC this year, I listened to a two hour lecture by a member of the Pixar writing staff. Here's their story structure:
Exposition
Inciting Incident
Progressive Complications
Climax
Resolution
Funny how the formula used by one of the most successful studios is roughly the same structure explained to me in grade school.
Though there were a few interesting points in this fairly thick book, I feel like these guides succeed and keep getting written for all the wrong reasons.
Wannabe writers want a shortcut. They want a blue print to art, a way to bypass understanding things like human empathy, harnessing irony, or the need to practice. They don't want to put in the 10,000 hours of work for mastery suggested by the book Outliers. Writing was a wild hair urge summoned up in college, and they want results right-the-hell now!
A lot of the things you need to know about writing can be gleaned from a careful examination of what makes you care about the works you love. Ira Glass once stated that people get into writing because they have good taste, and want to add to the amazing conversation of ideas that their taste has created.
To me the best advice on the matter is, "You should write more. You should read more." And pay attention while you do both.
pizzamcpin3ppl3's review against another edition
adventurous
hopeful
informative
inspiring
medium-paced
5.0
larrys's review against another edition
4.0
I took lots of quotes from this book, which is a sure sign that it was useful. I read it slowly in small bits at a time, and I'm not sure if this allowed me to better absorb the information or if I lost the thread.
This book is 22 years old now and my only criticism -- regarding readers my age and younger -- is that the films used as examples are now a bit old, and unless I seek them out specially, for the purposes of studying story, I won't watch them. As in all books about storytelling, Star Wars features large. My husband made me watch that film a few years ago because apparently it's mandatory, like Shakespeare, and I was bored stiff through it and have no idea.
If only there were a book about storytelling which covered the eclectic and strange collection of titles which make up my own preferences! (Now I'm asking.)
This book is 22 years old now and my only criticism -- regarding readers my age and younger -- is that the films used as examples are now a bit old, and unless I seek them out specially, for the purposes of studying story, I won't watch them. As in all books about storytelling, Star Wars features large. My husband made me watch that film a few years ago because apparently it's mandatory, like Shakespeare, and I was bored stiff through it and have no idea.
If only there were a book about storytelling which covered the eclectic and strange collection of titles which make up my own preferences! (Now I'm asking.)
forest_reader's review against another edition
3.0
Lots and lots of pages about The Hero's Journey. And tbh, you could get the same ideas off of an article summary online. There wasn't anything special about Vogler's writing, but he does explain The Hero's Journey well and has some interesting ideas that helped me work through some sticky spots in my Viking novel. So overall, it was helpful, but rather long-winded.
tenoko1's review against another edition
3.0
Here's the thing about this book: covering the character types was fantastic, as well as detailing the journey, but some of it isn't much to tell and you could tell the author was grasping at straws for words to fill up pages. It started off strong, then toward the end just lost momentum, and the entire last hundred or so pages is just him watching five different movies and pointing out the aforementioned writing elements. Which is a waste of paper and my time.
djrmelvin's review against another edition
5.0
Not only is this an excellent book for writers of fiction, I'd recommend it very strongly to anyone who reads or watches films with a critical eye. Vogler relies on Joseph Campbell's explorations into myths and why humans need them to build a classic story telling formula that works. How do we know it works? He's got example after example, and honestly, it's hard to argue with the success of The Wizard of Oz, Titanic, the Indiana Jones' franchise, etc as successful story telling. Certainly, books aren't quite the same as film, but there's enough similarity that Vogler's book will help many writers find what's missing in their plot or their characters.
As for the critical eye, if you've ever wondered why films like the first Pirates of the Caribbean worked so well and the second one didn't, or what went wrong with Wolfgang Peterson's Troy (films released long after this book was written, but perfect examples of the type of film Vogler knows best), this book will give you some insight into what might have been missing. As a reader, you'll also be see what causes the difference between a good story/character arc and a great one.
And finally, if nothing else, this book flat out admits that scriptwriters that work for Disney will have their story tweeked to fit a template of what has worked best for Disney in the past.
As for the critical eye, if you've ever wondered why films like the first Pirates of the Caribbean worked so well and the second one didn't, or what went wrong with Wolfgang Peterson's Troy (films released long after this book was written, but perfect examples of the type of film Vogler knows best), this book will give you some insight into what might have been missing. As a reader, you'll also be see what causes the difference between a good story/character arc and a great one.
And finally, if nothing else, this book flat out admits that scriptwriters that work for Disney will have their story tweeked to fit a template of what has worked best for Disney in the past.
vladfr's review against another edition
5.0
I just finished reading Christopher Vogler's "The Writer's Journey", a book which explores mythic structure for writers. The author moves that we can take any story in any form, be it a novel, a short story, a play or a movie, and look at it through the lens of The Hero's Journey. Relying on Joseph Cambpell's work in mythology, Vogler reveals a 12-step model of the story, superimposed on the classical idea of the Three Act narrative.
The book starts with a presentation of popular character archetypes. In order to understand the 12 steps of the journey, we must first see the world of the story through the eyes of its characters. Vogler introduces us to the Hero in its various forms and sub-types: the Anti-Hero, the Reluctant Hero, the Tragic Hero. Heroes are called to action by Heralds, and are aided in their quest by Mentors. When Heroes enter a different world, they are met with resistance by Threshold Guardians, or with the two-faced manipulations of Tricksters. And finally, for every Hero there is a Shadow: this is the Villain, the Enemy, or the Rival.
Vogler identifies the 12 steps of the Hero's Journey from the perspective of two different worlds: the Ordinary World, and the Special World, and from the duality of a Hero's goals: the Outer problem and the Inner problem.
The Ordinary World is the every-day world in which our Hero lives. Its rules are known, its lessons are already learned. Our Hero grew up in this world and was formed by it. However, this world, like our Hero, is imperfect. In some stories, the Ordinary World is under threat from an outside force. In others, the threat comes from within: the character flaws of the Hero get him into trouble. In either case, the Ordinary World is flung in imbalance, and the Hero must correct it. This is the Call to Adventure, which sets the story in motion.
The Outer problem becomes clear at this point. get the girl, retrieve the sword, destroy the ring. What's interesting is that the Hero is not able to solve his Outer problem right away. He must learn and grow, and soon he will become aware of his Inner problem, caused by his flaws and weaknesses. Boy meets girl, boy loses girl, and to get girl back, boy needs to grow into a man and overcome his inabilty to commit. The "what" is clear at this point, but not the "how".
At first, the Hero is unaware of the dangers, so he Refuses the Call. This refusal can take many forms, but it is present in most stories. An eager Hero will be stopped in his tracks by his loved ones, who fear for him, or by the lack of help from his friends or allies. In such stories, this stage is one of preparation, where Heroes gather their forces and prepare for the road ahead.
This is often aided by a Meeting with the Mentor. The Mentor is a timeless archetype. It fulfills an crucial role, that of the teacher. The Mentor explains the role of the Call, the dangers ahead, and what's at stake. A Mentor can convince a Reluctant Hero, and can bestow gifts as well as put Heroes to the test. In many stories, both the Hero and the audience are taught important lessons that will prove invaluable on the road ahead.
Once the Hero is ready, he will enter a Special World. This can be a new physical place, but can also be a spiritual change. Vogler names the first steps into this new world the Crossing of the First Threshold. This is our Heros' first brush with a harsh, new reality, one that is no longer familiar. Traditionally, this is the beginning of Act Two.
From here, the adventure unfolds in a series of trials and ordeals leading up to the mid-point. Vogler identifies three stages. This sequence begins with a series of Tests, in which a Hero makes Allies and Enemies. As the story progresses, the Hero Approaches the Inmost Cave, the place which holds her desires. In a treasure hunt, it's the place where the treasure is buried; in a romantic movie, it's the most intimate moment of love.
However, The Hero cannot reach it without a fight. All good stories present a transformation, and change does not come easily for our Hero. She must first prove that she is worthy, so she must face a Supreme Ordeal. This is the first real conflict with the Hero's opposite, the Shadow. This is a brush with death itself. This is the peak moment of the crisis. The Hero might win, or the Villain might get the upper hand. Either way, this first major clash is an opportunity for learning for the Hero. She survives a brush with death, and ahe emerges from the Ordeal changed. The Inner problem reveals itself, and the Ordeal is a big step towards resolving it.
After the Ordeal, the Hero manages to find a Reward. This is the solution to the Hero's Outer problem. This might come in the form of an object, or of experience, or Allies and Friends. She ultimately succeeds in her quest and gets the Reward, and also remembers the lessons learned, or those she lost along the way. In the Wizard of Oz, this is the moment when Dorothy defeats the Wicked Witch and liberates the people she enslaved, who grant Dorothy the Witch's Magic Broom.
In many stories, the Reward Stage is followed by a series of setbacks. There are consequences for defying the Shadow. Heroes must now take The Road Back to their Ordinary World, to integrate and share what they have learned. But this Road is filled with peril, as the consequences of their actions unfold. The Road Back usually takes the story into its Third and final act, and represents the Crossing of the Second threshold, as the Heroes endeavour to go back into the Ordinary World.
The goals of the Hero have changed. Once he is in the possession of his Reward, the Hero now seeks to use it to better his Ordinary World. In Star Wars, Luke and team bring back the Plans to the Death star, which will be used in the final battle. Vogler calls this the Resurrection: one last brush with death. Heroes give it their all: they apply everything they have learned along the way to defeat the Shadow one last time. This is the Climax of the story, where we see the transformed Hero in action. This is the moment where the Inner problem is understood. To finally destroy the Death Star, Luke lets go of the controls and trusts in the Force, honoring his masters teachings.
Finally, after the Shadow is defeated one last time, the Hero arrives home; he Returns with the Elixir. The Hero's Journey is now complete, and both Hero and audience can enjoy their just rewards.
The Hero's Journey is not only for the main characters. Every character goes on her own Journey, each with its own twists and turns, perils and rewards. The Hero's Journey is a guide to each character's develoment. In this regard, it is an useful tool to build Character Arcs. Each of the 12 steps relates to the Hero's desires and to his evolution.
The Hero's Journey focuses on timeless archetypes woven by storytellers for as long as humans could write. It strikes me as an important tool, dependable and widely applicable. It is altogether simple and complex, and can help in creating both story and character arcs. It's worth studying this book and its various other follow-ups, like Save the Cat! or Myth and the Movies.
The book starts with a presentation of popular character archetypes. In order to understand the 12 steps of the journey, we must first see the world of the story through the eyes of its characters. Vogler introduces us to the Hero in its various forms and sub-types: the Anti-Hero, the Reluctant Hero, the Tragic Hero. Heroes are called to action by Heralds, and are aided in their quest by Mentors. When Heroes enter a different world, they are met with resistance by Threshold Guardians, or with the two-faced manipulations of Tricksters. And finally, for every Hero there is a Shadow: this is the Villain, the Enemy, or the Rival.
Vogler identifies the 12 steps of the Hero's Journey from the perspective of two different worlds: the Ordinary World, and the Special World, and from the duality of a Hero's goals: the Outer problem and the Inner problem.
The Ordinary World is the every-day world in which our Hero lives. Its rules are known, its lessons are already learned. Our Hero grew up in this world and was formed by it. However, this world, like our Hero, is imperfect. In some stories, the Ordinary World is under threat from an outside force. In others, the threat comes from within: the character flaws of the Hero get him into trouble. In either case, the Ordinary World is flung in imbalance, and the Hero must correct it. This is the Call to Adventure, which sets the story in motion.
The Outer problem becomes clear at this point. get the girl, retrieve the sword, destroy the ring. What's interesting is that the Hero is not able to solve his Outer problem right away. He must learn and grow, and soon he will become aware of his Inner problem, caused by his flaws and weaknesses. Boy meets girl, boy loses girl, and to get girl back, boy needs to grow into a man and overcome his inabilty to commit. The "what" is clear at this point, but not the "how".
At first, the Hero is unaware of the dangers, so he Refuses the Call. This refusal can take many forms, but it is present in most stories. An eager Hero will be stopped in his tracks by his loved ones, who fear for him, or by the lack of help from his friends or allies. In such stories, this stage is one of preparation, where Heroes gather their forces and prepare for the road ahead.
This is often aided by a Meeting with the Mentor. The Mentor is a timeless archetype. It fulfills an crucial role, that of the teacher. The Mentor explains the role of the Call, the dangers ahead, and what's at stake. A Mentor can convince a Reluctant Hero, and can bestow gifts as well as put Heroes to the test. In many stories, both the Hero and the audience are taught important lessons that will prove invaluable on the road ahead.
Once the Hero is ready, he will enter a Special World. This can be a new physical place, but can also be a spiritual change. Vogler names the first steps into this new world the Crossing of the First Threshold. This is our Heros' first brush with a harsh, new reality, one that is no longer familiar. Traditionally, this is the beginning of Act Two.
From here, the adventure unfolds in a series of trials and ordeals leading up to the mid-point. Vogler identifies three stages. This sequence begins with a series of Tests, in which a Hero makes Allies and Enemies. As the story progresses, the Hero Approaches the Inmost Cave, the place which holds her desires. In a treasure hunt, it's the place where the treasure is buried; in a romantic movie, it's the most intimate moment of love.
However, The Hero cannot reach it without a fight. All good stories present a transformation, and change does not come easily for our Hero. She must first prove that she is worthy, so she must face a Supreme Ordeal. This is the first real conflict with the Hero's opposite, the Shadow. This is a brush with death itself. This is the peak moment of the crisis. The Hero might win, or the Villain might get the upper hand. Either way, this first major clash is an opportunity for learning for the Hero. She survives a brush with death, and ahe emerges from the Ordeal changed. The Inner problem reveals itself, and the Ordeal is a big step towards resolving it.
After the Ordeal, the Hero manages to find a Reward. This is the solution to the Hero's Outer problem. This might come in the form of an object, or of experience, or Allies and Friends. She ultimately succeeds in her quest and gets the Reward, and also remembers the lessons learned, or those she lost along the way. In the Wizard of Oz, this is the moment when Dorothy defeats the Wicked Witch and liberates the people she enslaved, who grant Dorothy the Witch's Magic Broom.
In many stories, the Reward Stage is followed by a series of setbacks. There are consequences for defying the Shadow. Heroes must now take The Road Back to their Ordinary World, to integrate and share what they have learned. But this Road is filled with peril, as the consequences of their actions unfold. The Road Back usually takes the story into its Third and final act, and represents the Crossing of the Second threshold, as the Heroes endeavour to go back into the Ordinary World.
The goals of the Hero have changed. Once he is in the possession of his Reward, the Hero now seeks to use it to better his Ordinary World. In Star Wars, Luke and team bring back the Plans to the Death star, which will be used in the final battle. Vogler calls this the Resurrection: one last brush with death. Heroes give it their all: they apply everything they have learned along the way to defeat the Shadow one last time. This is the Climax of the story, where we see the transformed Hero in action. This is the moment where the Inner problem is understood. To finally destroy the Death Star, Luke lets go of the controls and trusts in the Force, honoring his masters teachings.
Finally, after the Shadow is defeated one last time, the Hero arrives home; he Returns with the Elixir. The Hero's Journey is now complete, and both Hero and audience can enjoy their just rewards.
The Hero's Journey is not only for the main characters. Every character goes on her own Journey, each with its own twists and turns, perils and rewards. The Hero's Journey is a guide to each character's develoment. In this regard, it is an useful tool to build Character Arcs. Each of the 12 steps relates to the Hero's desires and to his evolution.
The Hero's Journey focuses on timeless archetypes woven by storytellers for as long as humans could write. It strikes me as an important tool, dependable and widely applicable. It is altogether simple and complex, and can help in creating both story and character arcs. It's worth studying this book and its various other follow-ups, like Save the Cat! or Myth and the Movies.