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iillianne's review against another edition
Only read the first section on how misogynists function in their interpersonal relationships. I was uninterested in the second section as it seemed geared towards advising women on how to interact with them.
suneaters's review against another edition
informative
reflective
slow-paced
4.5
Can you answer "yes" to any of these questions?
- "Does he assume the right to control how you live and behave?
- Have you given up important activities or people in your life in order to keep him happy?
- Does he devalue your opinions, your feelings, and your accomplishments?
- Does he yell, threaten, or withdraw into angry silence when you displease him?
- Do you "walk on eggs," rehearsing what you will say so as not to set him off?
- Does he bewilder you by switching from charm to rage without warning?
- Do you often feel confused, off-balance, or inadequate with him?
- Is he extremely jealous and possessive?
- Does he blame you for everything that goes wrong in the relationship?" (10)
Does he say any of these things?
- "If you really loved me, you would have known what I was thinking,
- If you weren't so wrapped up in yourself, you would have been able to tell what I wanted.
- If you really cared about me, you would have known I was tired.
- If my needs mattered to you, you would have known that I didn't want to go to the movies." (37)
If so, you might have an abusive and/or misogynistic partner.
Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them: When Loving Hurts and You Don't Know Why by Susan Forward and Joan Torres is a fantastic handbook for confused women wondering why their relationships are not making them feel cherished and loved. As Dr. Forward says, "Before any of us can change a relationship, we have to understand what is occurring in it. But understanding is not enough. By itself, understanding is just an intellectual exercise. In order for your life and your relationship to change, you have to do something differently, not just think about it differently" (11). This is great advice. The book also offers a deep look into these types of relationships through several of her clients and provides warning signs for troublesome relationships.
I wish someone had mentioned this to me when I was first entering a whirlwind romance. "Once the element of sexual intimacy has been added, the speed and intensity of the emotions becomes even greater. You don't go through the normal progression of discover with your new lover because there has not been enough time....It takes time for both partners to develop the openness, trust, and honesty that are needed for a solid relationship. A whirlwind courtship, thrilling as it may be, tends to provide only pseudo-intimacy, which is then mistaken for genuine closeness" (20). Through my partner was female, I made this same mistake and Dr. Forward's notion that in these types of pseudo-intimate relationships "is the sense of underlying desperation in both parties, each of whom has a frantic need to bind the other person to him" could not have more perfectly described our bond (23). She wraps up this section with a warning: "But if, in addition to the romantic excitement, you find some of the elements I have described coming into play–rescuing, a sense of panic and desperation, a too-quick bonding or fusion, and a kind of purposeful blindness–then you may be headed for some very rough waters" (27).
She also notes how women minimize, rationalize, and become blind to their own abuse. "Often women say to me, "At least he doesn't hit me." My reply to this disclaimer is, "The result is the same. You are just as scared, you you feel just as helpless, and you are in just as much pain. What difference does it make whether the weapon is his fists or his words?"" (43). I think this is very important to remember as verbal abuse can be as devastating as physical abuse.
FEMALE SOCIALIZATION AS A PRIMER FOR MISOGYNISTIC ABUSE
Dr. Forward continually notes how culture supports and enables this relationship of abuse towards women. Right from the get-go, Dr. Forward dismisses the idea of masochism as "a convenient but highly dangerous way of attempting to explain why so many women fall into self-denying, submissive behavior with men. In reality, women learn these behaviors early, and are consistently rewarded and praised for them" (7). She correctly notes that female socialization reinforces these destructive behaviors and that they are not inherent. Dr. Forward also notes that "The concept of masochism is dangerous because it serves to justify aggression against women–it confirms that "that's what women really want"" (7). This will certainly bring the ire of some self-styled "feminists", but Dr. Forward speaks the truth about BDSM and other types of "kink" that are little more than abuse.
Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them: When Loving Hurts and You Don't Know Why by Susan Forward and Joan Torres is a fantastic handbook for confused women wondering why their relationships are not making them feel cherished and loved. As Dr. Forward says, "Before any of us can change a relationship, we have to understand what is occurring in it. But understanding is not enough. By itself, understanding is just an intellectual exercise. In order for your life and your relationship to change, you have to do something differently, not just think about it differently" (11). This is great advice. The book also offers a deep look into these types of relationships through several of her clients and provides warning signs for troublesome relationships.
I wish someone had mentioned this to me when I was first entering a whirlwind romance. "Once the element of sexual intimacy has been added, the speed and intensity of the emotions becomes even greater. You don't go through the normal progression of discover with your new lover because there has not been enough time....It takes time for both partners to develop the openness, trust, and honesty that are needed for a solid relationship. A whirlwind courtship, thrilling as it may be, tends to provide only pseudo-intimacy, which is then mistaken for genuine closeness" (20). Through my partner was female, I made this same mistake and Dr. Forward's notion that in these types of pseudo-intimate relationships "is the sense of underlying desperation in both parties, each of whom has a frantic need to bind the other person to him" could not have more perfectly described our bond (23). She wraps up this section with a warning: "But if, in addition to the romantic excitement, you find some of the elements I have described coming into play–rescuing, a sense of panic and desperation, a too-quick bonding or fusion, and a kind of purposeful blindness–then you may be headed for some very rough waters" (27).
She also notes how women minimize, rationalize, and become blind to their own abuse. "Often women say to me, "At least he doesn't hit me." My reply to this disclaimer is, "The result is the same. You are just as scared, you you feel just as helpless, and you are in just as much pain. What difference does it make whether the weapon is his fists or his words?"" (43). I think this is very important to remember as verbal abuse can be as devastating as physical abuse.
FEMALE SOCIALIZATION AS A PRIMER FOR MISOGYNISTIC ABUSE
Dr. Forward continually notes how culture supports and enables this relationship of abuse towards women. Right from the get-go, Dr. Forward dismisses the idea of masochism as "a convenient but highly dangerous way of attempting to explain why so many women fall into self-denying, submissive behavior with men. In reality, women learn these behaviors early, and are consistently rewarded and praised for them" (7). She correctly notes that female socialization reinforces these destructive behaviors and that they are not inherent. Dr. Forward also notes that "The concept of masochism is dangerous because it serves to justify aggression against women–it confirms that "that's what women really want"" (7). This will certainly bring the ire of some self-styled "feminists", but Dr. Forward speaks the truth about BDSM and other types of "kink" that are little more than abuse.
"We have been taught since we were little girls that love is the answer. It will make everything better; all we have to do is to get a man to love us and then life will be good and we will live happily ever after. We have also been taught that in service of getting that love, certain behaviors are expected of us. Some of those are "smoothing things over," backing down, apologizing, and "making nice" (42)" Women are given this message from the moment our eyes open. All this does is enable men to treat women poorly and for the woman to rationalize her feelings away against the backdrop of a culture that rewards her for it. "When a woman believes that there is a magic key, she is likely to expend all her energy in the fruitless task of trying to find it, and in the process she relinquishes her right to good treatment. Because her emotional well-being is tied to her partner's mercurial moods, she loses her ability to act in her own best interests, to be assertive, and to have confidence in her decisions" (89). This cultural idea of love being able to "fix" a man coupled with misogynistic messages of what behavior is expected and acceptable for women is a recipe for disaster.
"Society has traditionally reinforced the idea that girls are inferior to boys, that girls can't take care of themselves, and that women need men to take care of them. We've all seen men portrayed in the media as stronger, more competent, and smarter than women, while women are often portrayed as highly emotional, indecisive, scatter-brained, passive, illogical, manipulative, and even malevolent. Such stereotypes further damage a young girl's ability to see herself as a strong and worthwhile person...While girls may be praised for their manners and appearance, boys are often praised for academic achievements and physical strength. Girls may also be discouraged from exploring and mastering life and instead encouraged the develop skills to manipulate others to negotiate in the world for them. What these girls are getting are lessons in helplessness" (129-30). These patterns emerge in early childhood and impact women for the rest of their lives. Imparting this helplessness onto little girls is setting them up to be abused later in life.
Men's misogyny is different to other kinds of hate. As I'll cover more in the next section, men don't want women gone. Even the man who despises the female sex doesn't want a world without women. He wants a world where women are subservient to him, not a world without them. He views his manhood as under attack unless he is allowed to dominate and control women. "Our culture reinforces this idea by depicting women as appropriate targets for men's hostilities. In literature, movies, and television, women are used by men as shields, foils, and hostages. They are raped, beaten, and shot with frightening regularity. Pornography implies that a woman's inherent seductiveness justifies and sadistic and/or sexual act a man wishes to commit against her...A culture that has depicted women, from the Bible on, as evil, malignant, and sinister gives misogynists even more reasons to hate, fear, and revile women" (119). Paradoxically, the misogynist's view of women as gossiping, name-calling brats is from our cultural misogyny. "Boys are encouraged the siphon off a great deal of aggression and anger through contact sports, fighting, and overt competitiveness, but girls are given far fewer outlets. Girls are expected to be polite and sweet-tempered; it is not considered "ladylike" for them to express anger by yelling, fighting, or engaging in aggressive sports....most girls learn to ventilate their anger through verbal aggression" (137).
In addition to all these socializations meant to wear down a girl's curiosity, self-worth, confidence, and emotions, our sexuality is also rendered vulnerable through these cultural abuses. "We have been taught all our lives that a great deal of our self-worth is tied into our being sexually desirable and responsive. Our vulnerability about our sexuality leaves us open to the misogynist's methods" (58). And even though our culture places emphasis on women's sexual desirability, it hasn't bothered to actually understand women's anatomy. "Women have been left with an unfortunate legacy that dictates that there is only one right way to have an orgasm–through [penis in vagina] intercourse. It has only been in recent years that studies have proved what many of us have known for a long time: that the majority of women need manual and/or oral stimulation to have orgasms" (61). Ask yourself who benefits. "The misogynist is able to use the myth of "satisfaction only through intercourse" for himself and against his partner" (61).
HE NEEDS YOU MORE THAN YOU NEED HIM
Men who hate women don't actually want to be away from women. Men are happier when married, unlike women. They know women are better off without them and go to great lengths to bind women to them. "He operates from the secret belief that if he can strip her of her self-confidence, she will be as dependent on him as he is on her" (98). The crazy old cat lady, the spinster, and the old maid are psyops meant to scare women into their waiting arms.
"As psychoanalyst Karen Horney said, "Man has never tired of fashioning expressions for the violent forces by which he feels himself drawn the woman, and side by side, the dread that through her might die or be undone"" sums it up rather succinctly (119). "His normal needs to be close to a woman are mixed with fears that she can annihilate him emotionally. He harbors a hidden belief that if he loves a woman, she will then have the power to hurt him, to deprive him, to engulf him, and to abandon him" (97). His abuse is projection. Most of what men do to women and what they accuse women of is projection (men are worse drivers, men talk more, etc).
Dr. Forward notes that men may develop this fear of women from their mothers. Mothers are meant to nurture and guide their children. A mother who is not warm nor loving can stunt her children's growth since "people can become independent adults only when their own dependency needs were met in childhood" (105). "In addition to withholding love and attention and thereby frustrating her son, a cold, rejecting mother will often punish him for his normal needs of her. From this he gets the message that his neediness is unacceptable and shameful. He may begin trying to cover up his vulnerability whenever he can" (117). He does not trust women and thus does not trust his partner enough to open up to her. Instead, he beats her down and drags her to his level.
His father may also come into play. Dr. Forward notes that the overbearing and domineering mother can be just as damaging as the cold and rejecting one. The father might appear passive and withdrawn, but "[s]uch passivity and withdrawal are not as benign as they may appear. Passivity can be a way of dealing with anger. The passive father often has a great deal of rage toward his wife, but instead of expressing it in a healthy way, he punishes her, and often the rest of the family as well, through silence, withholding, and avoidance. These tactics vey effectively protect the passive person while simultaneously hurting the other members of the family. By refusing to interact, the passive man frustrates, angers, and upsets the person who is trying to connect with him" (113). This leaves men without a healthy parental figure in their life as one suffocates him and the other shuts him out.
"Society has traditionally reinforced the idea that girls are inferior to boys, that girls can't take care of themselves, and that women need men to take care of them. We've all seen men portrayed in the media as stronger, more competent, and smarter than women, while women are often portrayed as highly emotional, indecisive, scatter-brained, passive, illogical, manipulative, and even malevolent. Such stereotypes further damage a young girl's ability to see herself as a strong and worthwhile person...While girls may be praised for their manners and appearance, boys are often praised for academic achievements and physical strength. Girls may also be discouraged from exploring and mastering life and instead encouraged the develop skills to manipulate others to negotiate in the world for them. What these girls are getting are lessons in helplessness" (129-30). These patterns emerge in early childhood and impact women for the rest of their lives. Imparting this helplessness onto little girls is setting them up to be abused later in life.
Men's misogyny is different to other kinds of hate. As I'll cover more in the next section, men don't want women gone. Even the man who despises the female sex doesn't want a world without women. He wants a world where women are subservient to him, not a world without them. He views his manhood as under attack unless he is allowed to dominate and control women. "Our culture reinforces this idea by depicting women as appropriate targets for men's hostilities. In literature, movies, and television, women are used by men as shields, foils, and hostages. They are raped, beaten, and shot with frightening regularity. Pornography implies that a woman's inherent seductiveness justifies and sadistic and/or sexual act a man wishes to commit against her...A culture that has depicted women, from the Bible on, as evil, malignant, and sinister gives misogynists even more reasons to hate, fear, and revile women" (119). Paradoxically, the misogynist's view of women as gossiping, name-calling brats is from our cultural misogyny. "Boys are encouraged the siphon off a great deal of aggression and anger through contact sports, fighting, and overt competitiveness, but girls are given far fewer outlets. Girls are expected to be polite and sweet-tempered; it is not considered "ladylike" for them to express anger by yelling, fighting, or engaging in aggressive sports....most girls learn to ventilate their anger through verbal aggression" (137).
In addition to all these socializations meant to wear down a girl's curiosity, self-worth, confidence, and emotions, our sexuality is also rendered vulnerable through these cultural abuses. "We have been taught all our lives that a great deal of our self-worth is tied into our being sexually desirable and responsive. Our vulnerability about our sexuality leaves us open to the misogynist's methods" (58). And even though our culture places emphasis on women's sexual desirability, it hasn't bothered to actually understand women's anatomy. "Women have been left with an unfortunate legacy that dictates that there is only one right way to have an orgasm–through [penis in vagina] intercourse. It has only been in recent years that studies have proved what many of us have known for a long time: that the majority of women need manual and/or oral stimulation to have orgasms" (61). Ask yourself who benefits. "The misogynist is able to use the myth of "satisfaction only through intercourse" for himself and against his partner" (61).
HE NEEDS YOU MORE THAN YOU NEED HIM
Men who hate women don't actually want to be away from women. Men are happier when married, unlike women. They know women are better off without them and go to great lengths to bind women to them. "He operates from the secret belief that if he can strip her of her self-confidence, she will be as dependent on him as he is on her" (98). The crazy old cat lady, the spinster, and the old maid are psyops meant to scare women into their waiting arms.
"As psychoanalyst Karen Horney said, "Man has never tired of fashioning expressions for the violent forces by which he feels himself drawn the woman, and side by side, the dread that through her might die or be undone"" sums it up rather succinctly (119). "His normal needs to be close to a woman are mixed with fears that she can annihilate him emotionally. He harbors a hidden belief that if he loves a woman, she will then have the power to hurt him, to deprive him, to engulf him, and to abandon him" (97). His abuse is projection. Most of what men do to women and what they accuse women of is projection (men are worse drivers, men talk more, etc).
Dr. Forward notes that men may develop this fear of women from their mothers. Mothers are meant to nurture and guide their children. A mother who is not warm nor loving can stunt her children's growth since "people can become independent adults only when their own dependency needs were met in childhood" (105). "In addition to withholding love and attention and thereby frustrating her son, a cold, rejecting mother will often punish him for his normal needs of her. From this he gets the message that his neediness is unacceptable and shameful. He may begin trying to cover up his vulnerability whenever he can" (117). He does not trust women and thus does not trust his partner enough to open up to her. Instead, he beats her down and drags her to his level.
His father may also come into play. Dr. Forward notes that the overbearing and domineering mother can be just as damaging as the cold and rejecting one. The father might appear passive and withdrawn, but "[s]uch passivity and withdrawal are not as benign as they may appear. Passivity can be a way of dealing with anger. The passive father often has a great deal of rage toward his wife, but instead of expressing it in a healthy way, he punishes her, and often the rest of the family as well, through silence, withholding, and avoidance. These tactics vey effectively protect the passive person while simultaneously hurting the other members of the family. By refusing to interact, the passive man frustrates, angers, and upsets the person who is trying to connect with him" (113). This leaves men without a healthy parental figure in their life as one suffocates him and the other shuts him out.
CRITICISMS
Much as I found this book informative, I do have some criticisms. She mentions the abuser tactic of Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender (DARVO) briefly in one instance: "By switching the situation around, Jeff was able to make Nancy the villain and himself the victim. Many misogynists use this method of turning the tables to deflect blame from themselves...They are switching the situation around so that they never have to accept any responsibility for how they make their partners feel" (53). I feel as though this could be touched on more, especially in light of how the general public is woefully misinformed and will eagerly champion the abusers narrative, further abusing and gaslighting his partner (see the reactions to the Depp v Heard case for a great example.
There are also some stranger assertions I felt needed more backing and context. "Many abused children blame their mothers as much or even more than they blame their fathers for the abuse they experienced" is an interesting factoid (106). Does misogyny come into play? Is it because of societally expected roles of mothers and fathers? "Unlike a girl, who can stay close to her mother while she finds her own identity, a young boy must pull away from his mother in order to grow up as a healthy adult" is said without evidence (109). What makes it so that a girl may remain close with her mother, but not a boy? Is he allowed to remain close to his father? Is she allowed to remain close to her father?
"Just as Father is the first man in a girl's life, Mother is the first woman in a boy's. If this needed and important woman is a source of terror for him...he will develop both a deep hatred and intense need of women" (115). How many girls are terrorized by their fathers and yet don't develop a hatred of men, but instead an attraction to abusive ones? Is it socialization? Does culture allow for men to more easily hate women?
Dr. Forward details the importance of a healthy relationship between a father and his daughter. It is essential that, "Because the father is the first man in her life", he treats her well since "he becomes the model on which she will base her emerging expectations about men. His treatment of her will also determine much of her view of herself" (133). One case of a father-daughter relationship is characterized as the father "deal[ing] with his confusing and forbidden feelings of attraction to his daughter by simultaneously pushing her away and becoming extremely jealous and possessive" (142). This was a shocking assertion. Dr. Forward has written on incest prior, but I felt it was glossed over here when it deserved more written on it, but perhaps it is covered in one of her other works.
I also felt that one woman was raped by her partner, who initiated anal sex without asking, but it wasn't described as rape in the book. I felt like a lot of these relationships could not be saved. Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That? had a much more realistic idea of if an abusive man can be rehabilitated. Sadly, he usually cannot.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Rape, Emotional abuse, Child abuse, Misogyny, and Toxic relationship
galian84's review against another edition
4.0
I've spoken to a lot of people, both men and women, stuck in abusive relationships. If you've ever wondered how a man or woman in an abusive relationship can't "just leave", this book explains why and how it happens. I've been in a long-term relationship with someone I suspected was a misogynist, but never confirmed until I read this. He wasn't verbally or physically abusive, but he was very emotionally abusive and believed women owed him everything. And I'd never felt freer than when we finally broke up years later.
To anyone who thinks abuse is just physical, think again. Verbal and emotional abuse can inflict just as much damage, especially in the long-term.
I'm on a path to self-healing, and this book has helped me examine some of the relationships I've had in the past, and why I found it so hard to "just leave". Well-written with real-life examples, I found it to be a riveting read. A must-read if you suspect you're in an abusive relationship, have been in the past, or know somebody who is and want to help or understand them.
To anyone who thinks abuse is just physical, think again. Verbal and emotional abuse can inflict just as much damage, especially in the long-term.
I'm on a path to self-healing, and this book has helped me examine some of the relationships I've had in the past, and why I found it so hard to "just leave". Well-written with real-life examples, I found it to be a riveting read. A must-read if you suspect you're in an abusive relationship, have been in the past, or know somebody who is and want to help or understand them.
gaiusgermanicus's review against another edition
3.0
Interesting book. I only gave it 3 stars because I am not sure how much it would help someone who is actually in an abusive relationship.
What it does a good job of is explaining the dynamics of emotionally abusive relationships and why women stay in them.
What it does a good job of is explaining the dynamics of emotionally abusive relationships and why women stay in them.
yojkd's review against another edition
4.0
A must-read for anyone interested in, involved with or having family or friends involved with a misogynist. My favorite chapters were the ones in which she explained the forces that create a misogynist and the women who allow themselves to be treated so badly.
thebookdog's review against another edition
5.0
I began reading it grudgingly because I have a thing against self-help books. But, this book is something. Enlightening, and still not preachy.
https://worncorners.wordpress.com/2015/10/03/the-year-of-letting-go/
https://worncorners.wordpress.com/2015/10/03/the-year-of-letting-go/