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acrickettofillthesilence's review against another edition
1.0
Woof.
I knew going into this that the central premise experimented with the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. What I didn't know was just how strong the author would lean in and just how agitated certain logic flaws would make me.
For context, Sapir-Whorf is a not-too-subtly-racist claim that the language you speak determines how you think. The strong form of this hypothesis will basically make it sound like you have blinders on based on what words are or are not available in your language. To anyone who believes this concept, I'd like you to think of a time when a word was on the tip of your tongue but you just couldn't quite place it. Did that mean you couldn't conceptualize whatever it was you were trying to say? Obviously not. Strong Sapir-Whorf is bull and was used to justify all kinds of cultural xenophobia and racism.
If the author had toyed with the weak hypothesis, that the language you speak can lightly influence the way you think about the world, I might have been more sympathetic to this novel.
But nope. The book outright claims that Native American languages don't have numbers (except Sioux, which allows for some things to be plural), and that French speakers cannot conceptualize what 'warm' is. This is said all in the span of two paragraphs.
Okay, so maybe it isn't that he doesn't understand the self. Maybe it's that he doesn't understand how pronouns are used as variables to refer back to nouns. If this is your argument, please refer back to the second and third bullets in this list.
I won't even go into all the linguistic babble the author uses to convince you that the main character is an expert. I find this book dangerously bad in the portrayal of S-W and what it means to speak a language. Full stop.
PS: These problems could have dropped a good book down to 2 or 3 stars. I also did not find the narrative compelling.
I knew going into this that the central premise experimented with the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. What I didn't know was just how strong the author would lean in and just how agitated certain logic flaws would make me.
For context, Sapir-Whorf is a not-too-subtly-racist claim that the language you speak determines how you think. The strong form of this hypothesis will basically make it sound like you have blinders on based on what words are or are not available in your language. To anyone who believes this concept, I'd like you to think of a time when a word was on the tip of your tongue but you just couldn't quite place it. Did that mean you couldn't conceptualize whatever it was you were trying to say? Obviously not. Strong Sapir-Whorf is bull and was used to justify all kinds of cultural xenophobia and racism.
If the author had toyed with the weak hypothesis, that the language you speak can lightly influence the way you think about the world, I might have been more sympathetic to this novel.
But nope. The book outright claims that Native American languages don't have numbers (except Sioux, which allows for some things to be plural), and that French speakers cannot conceptualize what 'warm' is. This is said all in the span of two paragraphs.
Spoiler
And then the icing on the cake is the claim that the Butcher can't use pronouns, which obviously means he doesn't understand the concept of the self. This argument is the funniest to me because in the exchange where Rydra teaches the Butcher pronouns, it's clear he already knew what they were, considering:- He responded just fine to Rydra referring to him as you.
- He responded to people calling his name and knew that the name referred back to himself.
- He seemed to have no problem with the people around him each calling themselves I and me without being the same person.
Okay, so maybe it isn't that he doesn't understand the self. Maybe it's that he doesn't understand how pronouns are used as variables to refer back to nouns. If this is your argument, please refer back to the second and third bullets in this list.
I won't even go into all the linguistic babble the author uses to convince you that the main character is an expert. I find this book dangerously bad in the portrayal of S-W and what it means to speak a language. Full stop.
griffo's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
mysterious
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.75
tregina's review against another edition
4.0
Classic science fiction is such a complicated prospect, what with the racism and sexism and homophobia undermining all the tremendous imagination and great vision. The beauty of reading Delany is that he avoids almost all of that, which automatically puts him head and shoulders, for me, above most of his contemporaries. And on top of that this particular novel is all about beautiful, glorious language. It's not perfect. The conclusion doesn't feel entirely organic (and of course the technology is anachronistic now). But it's wildly imaginative with a great female protagonist, a variety of sexual and romantic relationships, fascinating linguistics, body modification, telepathy, ghosts and intergalactic travel. For me, it's wonderful.
moorah's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
informative
mysterious
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
3.0
cecile87's review against another edition
3.0
While I found the play on language and how it reflects and impacts cultural mindsets and thus how one views a problem and then solves it interesting, I found some of the delivery of the story confusing and distracting.
Some parts were deep and other parts felt cartoonish. Rydra’s colleagues felt like a band of Saturday morning kid-fare. Some parts of the story weren’t rendered very clearly—I found myself just moving along to grasp a sense of the trajectory of it.
My favorite parts were the two times the pirate ship members went out on spider-ships to attack the invaders. The fight strategy commands of the pirate captain Tarik were clever and fun. Worth the whole book, almost:
“From the speaker came Tarik’s voice: “Hear this: the strategy is Asylum. Asylum. Repeat a third time, Asylum. Inmates gather to face Caesar. Psychotics ready at the K-ward gate. Neurotics gather before the R-ward gate. Criminally insane prepare for discharge at the T-ward gate. All right, drop your strait jackets.”
Some parts were deep and other parts felt cartoonish. Rydra’s colleagues felt like a band of Saturday morning kid-fare. Some parts of the story weren’t rendered very clearly—I found myself just moving along to grasp a sense of the trajectory of it.
My favorite parts were the two times the pirate ship members went out on spider-ships to attack the invaders. The fight strategy commands of the pirate captain Tarik were clever and fun. Worth the whole book, almost:
“From the speaker came Tarik’s voice: “Hear this: the strategy is Asylum. Asylum. Repeat a third time, Asylum. Inmates gather to face Caesar. Psychotics ready at the K-ward gate. Neurotics gather before the R-ward gate. Criminally insane prepare for discharge at the T-ward gate. All right, drop your strait jackets.”
noahfence2007's review against another edition
adventurous
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
3.0
angus_mckeogh's review against another edition
3.0
A science fiction linguistic mystery. Perhaps that’s a weird sort of amalgamation, but then again in the pantheon of science fiction maybe a linguistic mystery isn’t so unusual. Pretty good. Better than just okay but certainly not mind-blowing.
tlhp's review against another edition
5.0
Challenging and ambitious. Progressive (even for its time). Recommend only to the truly literate in the English language. Complicated language and intense pacing.
noahjmack's review against another edition
adventurous
informative
mysterious
reflective
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
4.5
xeno2318's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0