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theliteratewalrus2's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
This book is just so good. Even if you don't like sci fi that much I recommend you read this, if you like classics or fantasy, or just good worldbuilding in, than you'll probably like this book. Just a warning though, this book is slow, it's exposition phase alone is longer than most full-length novels.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Drug use and Violence
Moderate: Sexual content
Minor: Addiction and Sexual assault
thebookbin's review against another edition
challenging
reflective
tense
slow-paced
3.0
So I just finished Dune. I first read it in 5th grade and I’m glad I took the time to reread it but also... not.
A lot of the hot takes of this book is the “white savior” narrative but this book is a criticism of the white savior narrative. The only problem is that to criticize it, it includes the white savior narrative.
Paul, the main character, is the villain of the story. The interesting thing is that his opponents are also villains: imperialism has rendered the universe flawed with no good options.
Paul is definitely a white boy power fantasy. He is trained in all manner of fighting and his mother’s magic, but of course he surpasses her and eventually can see all of time: past-present-future. What starts as a boy’s quest to avenge his father becomes a new emperor’s takeover of the universe.
The first half of the novel is unbearably slow. So much time is dedicated to politics and such tiny machinations it comes as a shock when they are betrayed and the house falls to ruin. It really feels like the stakes are so high because we as the reader were invested in these politics only for them to become useless. But then the book just blasts forward so fast and abandons that attention to detail in order to skip ahead in time all of the sudden Paul is married with a baby. We don’t get to witness his rise of power within the Fremen, which makes sense if you’re looking at this story through the anti-white-savior lens. The story focuses on Paul’s rise to power as an evil dictator, so the politics of the Fremen aren’t really as important, but it’s such a jarring switch of pace.
It also completely escaped me the first time, idk how because it’s not subtle, but the lesser baddie is gay, but not really. The evil Vladimir Harkonnen, who enslaved and entire planet and who is the colonizer supreme has a taste for little boys. This is supposed to highlight his unnaturalness: at one point he tells his men to drug a slave boy and put him in his room because he’s “not interested in wrestling”. That and the fact that he’s fat are supposed to signal to us that he’s evil, and it just really doesn’t sit well. Yes, gays can be evil, but you get the sense that this isn’t that—we’re supposed to be disgusted with the fact that he’s gay. For me it was the fact that they’re just boys, but you just know how the author thinks about it.
But on the other hand, it’s strangely progressive. One of the main characters, Lady Jessica, is one of the most powerful characters in the story and has a lot of her own agency, and yet at the same time how Herbert treats women really doesn’t sit well. Lady Jessica is a witch of the Bene Gessirit, who has cool powers and is part of a religious order. Her storyline is awesome. But although she physically fights a few times, again it’s very clear how Herbert views women. There are no female soldiers or just regular women around—even when they are physically capable they are still limited to other roles: mother, wife, priestess. There are just no regular women they way there are men.
Yet the final lines of the book are dedicated to the women: Lady Jessica, although beloved by the Duke, was never married to him and only a concubine. Minor spoiler: When Paul marries someone he doesn’t love at the end of the book, his mother consoles the one he does love: “We who carry the name concubine, history will call us wives.”
End spoiler.
I am fascinated by Dune's portrayal of religion: in that it’s entirely skeptical. In the book the Bene Gessirit are an intergalactic organization that want to bring about a powerful being through complicated breeding and genes. In order to do this, they go to planets and seed religions, and both Paul and Lady Jessica know this. Paul’s position as the Lisan al Gaib is literally a fake religion that the Bene Gessirit planted in their culture thousands of years ago and—even though both Paul and Lady Jessica know this, Paul actually begins to think he is the Lisan al Gaib and Jessica just kind of….lets him.
And Paul is so sure he’s the messiah and his visions are accurate but there’s literally no indication he’s actually seeing the future, he’s just kinda really confident
All in all I enjoyed the macro political machinations and the really cool worldbuilding of Arrakis. But as someone who grew up religious I also think this book is too subtle. Paul is the villain but I guarantee 85% of white men who read this will come away thinking he’s the hero.
I understand what it was trying to do, I just don’t think it did it completely successfully. And while I understand it’s considered a classic and revolutionary in the genre, I’m not interested in reading a straight white man’s take on politics and the universe when there’s so much out there that interests me more.
3/5 stars
A lot of the hot takes of this book is the “white savior” narrative but this book is a criticism of the white savior narrative. The only problem is that to criticize it, it includes the white savior narrative.
Paul, the main character, is the villain of the story. The interesting thing is that his opponents are also villains: imperialism has rendered the universe flawed with no good options.
Paul is definitely a white boy power fantasy. He is trained in all manner of fighting and his mother’s magic, but of course he surpasses her and eventually can see all of time: past-present-future. What starts as a boy’s quest to avenge his father becomes a new emperor’s takeover of the universe.
The first half of the novel is unbearably slow. So much time is dedicated to politics and such tiny machinations it comes as a shock when they are betrayed and the house falls to ruin. It really feels like the stakes are so high because we as the reader were invested in these politics only for them to become useless. But then the book just blasts forward so fast and abandons that attention to detail in order to skip ahead in time all of the sudden Paul is married with a baby. We don’t get to witness his rise of power within the Fremen, which makes sense if you’re looking at this story through the anti-white-savior lens. The story focuses on Paul’s rise to power as an evil dictator, so the politics of the Fremen aren’t really as important, but it’s such a jarring switch of pace.
It also completely escaped me the first time, idk how because it’s not subtle, but the lesser baddie is gay, but not really. The evil Vladimir Harkonnen, who enslaved and entire planet and who is the colonizer supreme has a taste for little boys. This is supposed to highlight his unnaturalness: at one point he tells his men to drug a slave boy and put him in his room because he’s “not interested in wrestling”. That and the fact that he’s fat are supposed to signal to us that he’s evil, and it just really doesn’t sit well. Yes, gays can be evil, but you get the sense that this isn’t that—we’re supposed to be disgusted with the fact that he’s gay. For me it was the fact that they’re just boys, but you just know how the author thinks about it.
But on the other hand, it’s strangely progressive. One of the main characters, Lady Jessica, is one of the most powerful characters in the story and has a lot of her own agency, and yet at the same time how Herbert treats women really doesn’t sit well. Lady Jessica is a witch of the Bene Gessirit, who has cool powers and is part of a religious order. Her storyline is awesome. But although she physically fights a few times, again it’s very clear how Herbert views women. There are no female soldiers or just regular women around—even when they are physically capable they are still limited to other roles: mother, wife, priestess. There are just no regular women they way there are men.
Yet the final lines of the book are dedicated to the women: Lady Jessica, although beloved by the Duke, was never married to him and only a concubine. Minor spoiler: When Paul marries someone he doesn’t love at the end of the book, his mother consoles the one he does love: “We who carry the name concubine, history will call us wives.”
End spoiler.
I am fascinated by Dune's portrayal of religion: in that it’s entirely skeptical. In the book the Bene Gessirit are an intergalactic organization that want to bring about a powerful being through complicated breeding and genes. In order to do this, they go to planets and seed religions, and both Paul and Lady Jessica know this. Paul’s position as the Lisan al Gaib is literally a fake religion that the Bene Gessirit planted in their culture thousands of years ago and—even though both Paul and Lady Jessica know this, Paul actually begins to think he is the Lisan al Gaib and Jessica just kind of….lets him.
And Paul is so sure he’s the messiah and his visions are accurate but there’s literally no indication he’s actually seeing the future, he’s just kinda really confident
All in all I enjoyed the macro political machinations and the really cool worldbuilding of Arrakis. But as someone who grew up religious I also think this book is too subtle. Paul is the villain but I guarantee 85% of white men who read this will come away thinking he’s the hero.
I understand what it was trying to do, I just don’t think it did it completely successfully. And while I understand it’s considered a classic and revolutionary in the genre, I’m not interested in reading a straight white man’s take on politics and the universe when there’s so much out there that interests me more.
3/5 stars
Content Warnings
Moderate: Pedophilia, Sexual assault, and Homophobia
meredith's review against another edition
slow-paced
- Loveable characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.25
Content Warnings
Moderate: Slavery, Drug use, Genocide, War, and Colonisation
Minor: Incest, Pedophilia, and Sexual assault
saintsunshine's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
reflective
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.25
It's so good once you get over the homophobia and fatphobia.
Content Warnings
Graphic: War, Violence, and Colonisation
Moderate: Slavery, Sexual assault, Death of parent, Grief, Child death, Classism, Kidnapping, and Fatphobia
sonder11's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Sexual assault
tay_bae's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
mysterious
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
4.0
Content Warnings
Moderate: Sexism
Minor: Sexual assault and Colonisation
noahoha's review against another edition
challenging
dark
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
Content Warnings
Moderate: Sexual assault, Fatphobia, Homophobia, and Pedophilia
knorretje's review against another edition
adventurous
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
4.5
Content Warnings
Moderate: Addiction, Death of parent, Murder, and Violence
Minor: Child abuse, Child death, and Sexual assault
daniel_b17's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
emotional
mysterious
sad
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
Going into Dune I had high expectations. I was not around when it first came out, but due to the movie coming out I decided it might be a good/fun idea to read it and then watch the movie and compare afterward. Getting straight to the point, I want to say that I did enjoy most aspects of this book. When we think sci-fi, or at least when I do, I think of space battles, and big wars. This book is very much not this. The book focused mainly on themes of betrayal and political intrigue of an interesting, dark and sad future of humanity. If you came looking for action and big battles you will be disappointed.
The start of the book really focuses on the world building, and establishing characters. Two aspects I think that Frank Herbert knocked out of the park. The fact that we are dropped into this world that at first seems incredibly difficult to understand and very intricate, and as we progress, we come to understand the subtle terms and nuances along with the people/races and the whole political/imperial system and it's workings. 5/5 on the world building aspect of Dune.
The one thing that I found very difficult to understand was the way Frank Herbert writes. I found that it was very difficult to understand at first. I often found myself re-reading certain paragraphs and/or sentences, because I didn't understand something. Throughout the book however, you come to understand his writing and the flow of how he gets his point across if that makes sense. He has a, what I would call, very olden times type of writing style, which as I said before can be difficult for some.
Overall I though that it was a very well written book, however I found that Frank Herbert's storytelling ability was very choppy and not something that I would be drawn to, had it not been for the hype of the movie releasing. That's where, for me, he lost a few marks. In the future I hope to read the rest of the series, as I have heard good things about them as well. My review is purely opinion based, and by no means is meant as a shot toward the community that reveres Frank Herbert. I say yet again, I have no hate toward Frank Herbert or the people that like his books.
Recommended for people who are at ease with slower paced books, focused more on political intrigue and the inner workings of an empire and betrayal, rather than the more modern Fantasy/Sci-Fi books that focus more on battles and action.
3.75/5
The start of the book really focuses on the world building, and establishing characters. Two aspects I think that Frank Herbert knocked out of the park. The fact that we are dropped into this world that at first seems incredibly difficult to understand and very intricate, and as we progress, we come to understand the subtle terms and nuances along with the people/races and the whole political/imperial system and it's workings. 5/5 on the world building aspect of Dune.
The one thing that I found very difficult to understand was the way Frank Herbert writes. I found that it was very difficult to understand at first. I often found myself re-reading certain paragraphs and/or sentences, because I didn't understand something. Throughout the book however, you come to understand his writing and the flow of how he gets his point across if that makes sense. He has a, what I would call, very olden times type of writing style, which as I said before can be difficult for some.
Overall I though that it was a very well written book, however I found that Frank Herbert's storytelling ability was very choppy and not something that I would be drawn to, had it not been for the hype of the movie releasing. That's where, for me, he lost a few marks. In the future I hope to read the rest of the series, as I have heard good things about them as well. My review is purely opinion based, and by no means is meant as a shot toward the community that reveres Frank Herbert. I say yet again, I have no hate toward Frank Herbert or the people that like his books.
Recommended for people who are at ease with slower paced books, focused more on political intrigue and the inner workings of an empire and betrayal, rather than the more modern Fantasy/Sci-Fi books that focus more on battles and action.
3.75/5
Content Warnings
Graphic: Blood, Death, Death of parent, Drug use, Grief, and Pregnancy
Moderate: Child death, War, and Pregnancy
Minor: Rape and Sexual assault
tarnishedcopper's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
mysterious
reflective
sad
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? N/A
3.75
Content Warnings
Graphic: Misogyny and Sexism
Moderate: Adult/minor relationship, Colonisation, Drug use, Genocide, and Torture
Minor: Sexual assault, Rape, Pedophilia, Murder, and Homophobia