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3.65 AVERAGE
3.65 AVERAGE
adventurous
dark
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
Character
Strong character development:
Yes
Loveable characters:
Yes
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
It's difficult to accurately review this because this series was so much part of my teenage years. Published back in 1983, set partially at the college I would eventually attend (and yes, we did track down and run games in the student union room with the mahogany table), and part of the common culture of the early to mid 80's gaming scene, the Guardians of the Flame books were ubiquitous for my early gaming. I even hacked out a set of rules that mirrored those in the book for a campaign of slave hunting.
The book has a lot going on in it in terms of character development - people entering adulthood being thrust into having to take life or death responsibility; 1980's sexual/relationship norms and toxic masculinity (even if they weren't discussed that way); disabled rights and social treatment - but the thing that struck me most was how the world accurately reflected how Fantasy RPGs were often played back then. The party infighting, the thieves stealing from party members, the wizards demanding gold for their spellcasting, the social norms of rape and NPCs demanding sex from female PCs casual game element in the name of "realism", the sad winner take all power fantasies. It's all but unrecognizable from today's more inclusive, story based game environments but boy howdy was it accurate to the time Rosenberg was writing it.
These two elements - the strong character development of the 20th century earth protagonists learning to treat each other as fully human and own up to their failings - crashes hard against the power fantasy dystopia of the setting in ways that are grimdark for the sake of realism, and reading it now they drag the book down for me.
Yes, Rosenberg is admittedly writing this as a love letter to the industrial revolution, and making it clear that the past is a horrorshow, but that doesn't and didn't mean that the pre-industrial fantasy worlds we create and explore need to be horrorshows. I really like Rosenberg's strong emphasis on the evils of slavery and pitting his characters against it full tilt. But his choices of lens and presentation at points leave a sour taste. Your mileage may vary (I know mine did in 1984).
The book has a lot going on in it in terms of character development - people entering adulthood being thrust into having to take life or death responsibility; 1980's sexual/relationship norms and toxic masculinity (even if they weren't discussed that way); disabled rights and social treatment - but the thing that struck me most was how the world accurately reflected how Fantasy RPGs were often played back then. The party infighting, the thieves stealing from party members, the wizards demanding gold for their spellcasting, the social norms of rape and NPCs demanding sex from female PCs casual game element in the name of "realism", the sad winner take all power fantasies. It's all but unrecognizable from today's more inclusive, story based game environments but boy howdy was it accurate to the time Rosenberg was writing it.
These two elements - the strong character development of the 20th century earth protagonists learning to treat each other as fully human and own up to their failings - crashes hard against the power fantasy dystopia of the setting in ways that are grimdark for the sake of realism, and reading it now they drag the book down for me.
Yes, Rosenberg is admittedly writing this as a love letter to the industrial revolution, and making it clear that the past is a horrorshow, but that doesn't and didn't mean that the pre-industrial fantasy worlds we create and explore need to be horrorshows. I really like Rosenberg's strong emphasis on the evils of slavery and pitting his characters against it full tilt. But his choices of lens and presentation at points leave a sour taste. Your mileage may vary (I know mine did in 1984).
In an obvious ploy to pull in a certain sort of reader, this book features a fantasy role-playing game that becomes real. I guess I was that sort of reader, because I remember enjoying it immensely.
Nice introduction to the series in what might be the first or at least an early example of the now popular litRPG genre. Gamers are sucked into the game world. The thing I disliked the most in this book was that the characters name and character's character names kept on being used throughout. I understand why the author did it, to show how when in the game world the character's character had as much say in a characters decisions as the character did. The author could have just done it for a chapter or two and the reader still would have gotten the point.
Ahoy there me mateys! I was trying to figure out what to read when I saw this old school cover in the hold . . .
The First Mate and his siblings fondly remember this series from childhood. And well I am an easy mark for all dragon-related things. So I gave this a shot. And I had very, very mixed thoughts. Be forewarned, unlike me usual posts, there are spoilers at the end because of a need to rant. Continue at yer own peril . . .
The book is set up in five parts:
The Student Union
Lundeyll
Pandathaway
Bremon
And Beyond
“The Student Union” starts out with a group of college age kids who play table-top role playing games in a club. I was never into that kinda gaming so it took me a bit to get into the novel. But of course the players end up transported into the game world which is actually an alternate magical universe. While the characters are rather stereotypical, I did find the students’ entrance and introduction to “Lundeyll” to be comical. From accidentally destroying their supplies, to having split personalities while coming to terms with the mingling of their real and character memories, the beginning of the magical adventure made me happy. Plus there were a few unexpected surprises.
The third part when they are journeying to the great city of “Pandathaway” is where the story started to go off track slightly. This is where the love interest plotlines start to really kick in. While the good news is that women in this 1983 novel can and do choose to sleep with multiple sexual partners if they want to, the men sulk like whiny babies and get all macho and protective and annoying. It was a glimpse of things to come. However I did like the wonderful library in the city and Doria haggling in the market and we get to meet our first dragon. Arrrr! I loved the silly dragon and its use in the city. Made me laugh that the dragon in the book is described as brown with red glowing eyes. Doesn’t match the cover at all.
After an extremely unexciting tournament (how can sword fighting be boring!) the group heads towards “Bremon” and the book enjoyment soured. Why ye ask? Because 1) it is just wandering with no real seeming purpose and more importantly 2) rape becomes a plot point. The strong men sit in a wagon and listen to the women being raped for hours. While it is certainly not graphic in the telling, it is completely irrelevant to the story and exists only to make the men feel revengeful, protective (after initially failing), remorseful, and so worse yet there can be a burden the men have to handle for the next segment. Sigh.
So okay now that the strong women have been reduced to quivering husks now what? The men get revenge! Which happens off the page and ends up with a head in a bag. Huh? Then more boring traveling. Then onto the a place “guarded by the most terrifying and deadly enemy of all!” Which is the promised dragon of the title. Who DOES NOTHING. Seriously it really does sleep while almost all the characters sneak past it. This supposed first dragon, THE dragon, doesn’t even twitch when a horde of people go past him. Its whole purpose it to GUARD the gate. Some terror. Some deadliness. It wakes up just in time to spit some flame. A super boring dragon! Urgh!
“And Beyond” that, the book got even worse. I won’t even get into it. I finished it because it was short and was remembered with fondness and I just didn’t get it. I guess I am too old and curmudgeony to suspend any real disbelief at the plot and only find meself disbelieving that this series is beloved by so many folk.
I did have the first mate tell me the continuation of the plot in the later novels. I am mystified that there are any people who are fond of this and all I can say is that me head hurts and I will be avoiding them indefinitely.
Check out me other reviews at https://thecaptainsquartersblog.wordpress.com/
The First Mate and his siblings fondly remember this series from childhood. And well I am an easy mark for all dragon-related things. So I gave this a shot. And I had very, very mixed thoughts. Be forewarned, unlike me usual posts, there are spoilers at the end because of a need to rant. Continue at yer own peril . . .
The book is set up in five parts:
The Student Union
Lundeyll
Pandathaway
Bremon
And Beyond
“The Student Union” starts out with a group of college age kids who play table-top role playing games in a club. I was never into that kinda gaming so it took me a bit to get into the novel. But of course the players end up transported into the game world which is actually an alternate magical universe. While the characters are rather stereotypical, I did find the students’ entrance and introduction to “Lundeyll” to be comical. From accidentally destroying their supplies, to having split personalities while coming to terms with the mingling of their real and character memories, the beginning of the magical adventure made me happy. Plus there were a few unexpected surprises.
The third part when they are journeying to the great city of “Pandathaway” is where the story started to go off track slightly. This is where the love interest plotlines start to really kick in. While the good news is that women in this 1983 novel can and do choose to sleep with multiple sexual partners if they want to, the men sulk like whiny babies and get all macho and protective and annoying. It was a glimpse of things to come. However I did like the wonderful library in the city and Doria haggling in the market and we get to meet our first dragon. Arrrr! I loved the silly dragon and its use in the city. Made me laugh that the dragon in the book is described as brown with red glowing eyes. Doesn’t match the cover at all.
After an extremely unexciting tournament (how can sword fighting be boring!) the group heads towards “Bremon” and the book enjoyment soured. Why ye ask? Because 1) it is just wandering with no real seeming purpose and more importantly 2) rape becomes a plot point. The strong men sit in a wagon and listen to the women being raped for hours. While it is certainly not graphic in the telling, it is completely irrelevant to the story and exists only to make the men feel revengeful, protective (after initially failing), remorseful, and so worse yet there can be a burden the men have to handle for the next segment. Sigh.
So okay now that the strong women have been reduced to quivering husks now what? The men get revenge! Which happens off the page and ends up with a head in a bag. Huh? Then more boring traveling. Then onto the a place “guarded by the most terrifying and deadly enemy of all!” Which is the promised dragon of the title. Who DOES NOTHING. Seriously it really does sleep while almost all the characters sneak past it. This supposed first dragon, THE dragon, doesn’t even twitch when a horde of people go past him. Its whole purpose it to GUARD the gate. Some terror. Some deadliness. It wakes up just in time to spit some flame. A super boring dragon! Urgh!
“And Beyond” that, the book got even worse. I won’t even get into it. I finished it because it was short and was remembered with fondness and I just didn’t get it. I guess I am too old and curmudgeony to suspend any real disbelief at the plot and only find meself disbelieving that this series is beloved by so many folk.
I did have the first mate tell me the continuation of the plot in the later novels. I am mystified that there are any people who are fond of this and all I can say is that me head hurts and I will be avoiding them indefinitely.
Check out me other reviews at https://thecaptainsquartersblog.wordpress.com/
Welcome back, my old friend. I haven't seen you in over 20 years.
When we (and Dungeons & Dragons) were young, we often fantasized about actually entering a magical worlds. A few of us tried to run games where that happened. That's what this book is about.
Chosen for Bedtime Reading, 8/2/2022 - spoilers below this point.
One TW: In the course of this story, a rape is inferred, but not depicted.
8/14/2022 - Our Story So Far:
The players have their own problems. So does the DM. When the mild-mannered professor (predictably) sends his players into the game world, they get all-new probems.
8/21/2022 - Our Story So Far:
Disoriented and confused, the players find themselves translated into the game world, as their characters. Even more disoriented, the wizard accidentally blasts the crate full of magic items. (Never keep all your loot in one place, folks!) After wrestling with some multiple personality issues, and re-affirming Ahira as leader, they send the two thieves on a scouting mission.
8/28/2022 - Our Story So Far:
Hakim and Lightfingers go into town. Only Hakim comes back. The party buys passage on a ship, and literally burns their bridges behind them. Doria takes one for the team, and resents the hell out it.
9/4/2022 - Our Story So Far:
The adventurers arrive in Pandathaway. It's hella expensive just to live here. Ahira goes to the Library and suffers speciesism. Karl nearly gets them all killed by archers. A wonderful first day in a new city.
10/2/2022 - Our Story So Far:
Karl picks a hell of a time to discover his personal morality. He releases a young (300 years) dragon from captivity, thereby destroying Pandathaway's sewage system. The party needs to de-part quickly, and their funds are low. Choices to make a quick gold seem to be limited: The Games.
10/9/2022 - Our Story So Far:
Ahira wins the Axe competition and everything's fine. Karl wins the Swords competition and gains a lifelong enemy. The content warning I've been posting happened. Mass slaughter ensues.
10/16/2022 - Our Story So Far:
The group finds the "Gate Between Worlds" at Bremon. Things...don't go well. Fleeing an angry -- excuse me, THE Angry Dragon -- they dive through. But did they all make it?
Chosen for Bedtime Reading, 8/2/2022 - spoilers below this point.
One TW: In the course of this story, a rape is inferred, but not depicted.
8/14/2022 - Our Story So Far:
The players have their own problems. So does the DM. When the mild-mannered professor (predictably) sends his players into the game world, they get all-new probems.
8/21/2022 - Our Story So Far:
Disoriented and confused, the players find themselves translated into the game world, as their characters. Even more disoriented, the wizard accidentally blasts the crate full of magic items. (Never keep all your loot in one place, folks!) After wrestling with some multiple personality issues, and re-affirming Ahira as leader, they send the two thieves on a scouting mission.
8/28/2022 - Our Story So Far:
Hakim and Lightfingers go into town. Only Hakim comes back. The party buys passage on a ship, and literally burns their bridges behind them. Doria takes one for the team, and resents the hell out it.
9/4/2022 - Our Story So Far:
The adventurers arrive in Pandathaway. It's hella expensive just to live here. Ahira goes to the Library and suffers speciesism. Karl nearly gets them all killed by archers. A wonderful first day in a new city.
10/2/2022 - Our Story So Far:
Karl picks a hell of a time to discover his personal morality. He releases a young (300 years) dragon from captivity, thereby destroying Pandathaway's sewage system. The party needs to de-part quickly, and their funds are low. Choices to make a quick gold seem to be limited: The Games.
10/9/2022 - Our Story So Far:
Ahira wins the Axe competition and everything's fine. Karl wins the Swords competition and gains a lifelong enemy. The content warning I've been posting happened. Mass slaughter ensues.
10/16/2022 - Our Story So Far:
The group finds the "Gate Between Worlds" at Bremon. Things...don't go well. Fleeing an angry -- excuse me, THE Angry Dragon -- they dive through. But did they all make it?
So you know how writing professors tell you not to write about your D & D campaign? This is that.
I mean, I’ve never had a stigma about it, so I embrace the concept. Five or six people get whisked away into their fantasy world they created at the table rolling dice. They’ve all become their characters and have to get back home.
This was probably more significant in the eighties, when these college kids had to do their research at the library instead of the computer. Today it’s old hat. I’m not saying the book is out of date, but it’s falls into some other fantasy trappings. There’s nothing about this fantasy world that makes it different from any others. I expected to see creepy D&D monsters and elements like sentient swords and beholders. But this is a pretty standard get from point A to point B with a few stumblings on the way.
I will say the pacing is pretty good and most of the characters are distinguishable, but inconsistent. One character dies and no one seems to give a rip. Another has muscular dystrophy and he’s torn between staying or going back to the real world. So it scales back and forth. I can’t tell whether the tropes are cliche by now or not, but I don’t think they were when this was written.
There’s lots to dislike about the book, but here’s the one that’ll make you drop it–it uses rape as a plot point. The females get barely any screen time to begin with, I don’t think a single scene takes their POV, and I don’t think they have a conversation with each other. But when a troop of bandits kidnaps them, they take the women into the back. This is purely to give the characters motivation. Any love I had for this book dropped. It happens about 80% of the way through, so I finished it anyway, but all the book’s good will left the building. Especially when it takes the big strong men to avenge the rapists. One woman goes catatonic and the other acts like nothing happened. This is what people point to when they say fantasy doesn’t favor females. I won’t be reading any more in the series.
I mean, I’ve never had a stigma about it, so I embrace the concept. Five or six people get whisked away into their fantasy world they created at the table rolling dice. They’ve all become their characters and have to get back home.
This was probably more significant in the eighties, when these college kids had to do their research at the library instead of the computer. Today it’s old hat. I’m not saying the book is out of date, but it’s falls into some other fantasy trappings. There’s nothing about this fantasy world that makes it different from any others. I expected to see creepy D&D monsters and elements like sentient swords and beholders. But this is a pretty standard get from point A to point B with a few stumblings on the way.
I will say the pacing is pretty good and most of the characters are distinguishable, but inconsistent. One character dies and no one seems to give a rip. Another has muscular dystrophy and he’s torn between staying or going back to the real world. So it scales back and forth. I can’t tell whether the tropes are cliche by now or not, but I don’t think they were when this was written.
There’s lots to dislike about the book, but here’s the one that’ll make you drop it–it uses rape as a plot point. The females get barely any screen time to begin with, I don’t think a single scene takes their POV, and I don’t think they have a conversation with each other. But when a troop of bandits kidnaps them, they take the women into the back. This is purely to give the characters motivation. Any love I had for this book dropped. It happens about 80% of the way through, so I finished it anyway, but all the book’s good will left the building. Especially when it takes the big strong men to avenge the rapists. One woman goes catatonic and the other acts like nothing happened. This is what people point to when they say fantasy doesn’t favor females. I won’t be reading any more in the series.
TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE
There is a book tag called Regneneration Book Tag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEf0BihOdFA and the question for the Fifth Doctor is Name a book with WAY too many characters and this book comes close. Once the book gets going and we are transported to the game world it comes close to being a 5 star read but I was really shocked by the gang rape incident that takes place and the book comes close to being 1 star. I am not sure how well/sensitvely the author handled the subject. It has been a long time since a book shocked me like that. A good read and I hope to continue the series.
There is a book tag called Regneneration Book Tag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEf0BihOdFA and the question for the Fifth Doctor is Name a book with WAY too many characters and this book comes close. Once the book gets going and we are transported to the game world it comes close to being a 5 star read but I was really shocked by the gang rape incident that takes place and the book comes close to being 1 star. I am not sure how well/sensitvely the author handled the subject. It has been a long time since a book shocked me like that. A good read and I hope to continue the series.
It's been nearly 20 years since I've read this book, yet it's held a place in my imagination that whole time. The premise is a bit silly, and could be said that the author borrowed much from the concept of the Dungeons & Dragons animated series of the 80's. What stands out to me, to this day, was that I seem to recall actually caring about the characters in this story. So the author did something which the aforementioned Saturday morning cartoon didn't.
Not the finest of fantasy novels, but certainly one that I've remembered and in some ways have been inspired by. I would love to own a copy, as back in the day I had borrowed my step-sister's copy.
Not the finest of fantasy novels, but certainly one that I've remembered and in some ways have been inspired by. I would love to own a copy, as back in the day I had borrowed my step-sister's copy.