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The Underground Girls Of Kabul: The Hidden Lives of Afghan Girls Disguised as Boys by Jenny Nordberg
jencunn2024's review against another edition
4.0
Rounding up from a 3.75 if I could rate that way. This was an informative look at gender roles and patriarchy under the various Afghanistan governments in recent times. It was what I perceive as in-depth as investigative reporting might be able to get under this system. The stories of the Afghan women featured in this book were relatable and offer strong insight into how Afghan women are forced to live within their society and how difficult it can be to connect with them due to social constructs, legal constraints, and religious laws. The level segregation, restraint and control are still astounding even after having been aware due to our failed western influences and having lived through this time period of war, military and world relief efforts, and the related news cycles surrounding this country and America’s involvement. I feel so much for Afghan women in general and the women in this book just added to that. My only hiccups as a reader was that it grew tedious and slow in the middle with information overload at times, but I think that was mainly because I had some peripheral knowledge of the political and military climate already. I think this book is important and what felt extraneous to me will be important background for subsequent generations to have access to. It tells enough history to provide some basic background on that as it relates to the roles and lives of Afghan women at this time. It also reveals how a variety of women across the socio-political spectrum define freedom for themselves and what micro-level steps are needed to bring about eventual cultural change and progress.
maryquitecontrary_22's review against another edition
4.0
I love reading about the country of Afghanistan, but learning about the quality of life for women there is hard to digest as an American woman. It's been said that the worst place for a woman to live in the world is Afghanistan. Based on what I've read previously and in this book, I'd say that has to be accurate. The fact that there is even a need for families to designate a "bacha posh" (translated: 'dressed like a boy') in order to raise their social status further proves this argument.
Nordberg does a fine job as a neutral reporter investigating these girls posing as boys, although as others have mentioned, you wonder why she doesn't further address how Islam perpetuates the degradation of women in their culture. I was impressed with her ability to provide brief historical background on topics throughout the book, without detracting from the narratives.
Nordberg does a fine job as a neutral reporter investigating these girls posing as boys, although as others have mentioned, you wonder why she doesn't further address how Islam perpetuates the degradation of women in their culture. I was impressed with her ability to provide brief historical background on topics throughout the book, without detracting from the narratives.
cewhite3's review against another edition
4.0
This book is a fascinating account of girls in Afghanistan know as bacha posh. These are girls that are brought up as boys, until they reach puberty or a marriageable age. Nordberg looks at the reason why this tradition persists and discusses the effects this crossover has on the girls and their family. Going beyond that this book extends the issue into a global dialogue on gender roles in the past, present, and future.
thejejo's review against another edition
4.0
This was a great read exploring the expectations of Afghani family’s having son’s and assigning babies born of the female to sex to act as gendered males and how that can effect the lives of those individuals. It was good. I really enjoyed this read. I learned a lot.
cabowl's review against another edition
0.5
Too much author opinion intermixed with stories of (some) Afghani women.
vendea's review against another edition
I think I meant to write a review for this and then forgot.
The fact that I happened to read it less than a month before the Afghanistan withdrawal incident is not lost on me.
I think - that the fact that the author was fundamentally incapable of understanding certain things about the worldview demonstrated by many of the women interviewed was very obvious.
On the other hand, at least for the first half I though she did a good job of presenting the stories and keeping the content engaging.
The second half rather devolved into a political dissertation that I didn't really have any desire to read and also did not do much to actually address the problems raised by these women.
The fact that I happened to read it less than a month before the Afghanistan withdrawal incident is not lost on me.
I think - that the fact that the author was fundamentally incapable of understanding certain things about the worldview demonstrated by many of the women interviewed was very obvious.
On the other hand, at least for the first half I though she did a good job of presenting the stories and keeping the content engaging.
The second half rather devolved into a political dissertation that I didn't really have any desire to read and also did not do much to actually address the problems raised by these women.
shirleytupperfreeman's review against another edition
Jenny Nordberg was in Afghanistan to learn more about the role of women in contemporary life. As she was getting to know a female politician, Azita, she became confused about whether Azita had 4 girls or 3 girls and 1 boy. She soon realized that the youngest daughter was "being" a son for the family - in dress, mannerisms, treatment and level of freedom. The plan was that Mehran would be a boy until puberty and then change back into a girl. In the meantime, the family would have more honor, prestige and security than if they had all daughters. Having a son would be a boost to Azita's political career. Nordberg began to investigate the practice and discovered it was fairly common in this patriarchal society. This is a fascinating look at some individual girls and their stories and at the role of gender in a society with little to no institutions.
11corvus11's review against another edition
4.0
This was a really interesting look into some parts of Afghan culture regarding gender and women. I felt at times that Nordberg came at things from a colonialist approach, automatically assuming that the way she knew things to be regarding women was obviously better than knowledge she could gain from Afghan women. That said, she really documented what she learned well and she also gave frequent anecdotes about Western culture, showing that we are not too far from having similar views and policies towards gender and women as Afghanistan does. Some of them still exist today. This was a good way to break away from Western colonialist assumptions that the middle east has primitive notions of gender while we are somehow vastly enlightened and free from such history or oppression. She also did well to show how war, colonialism, and poverty contributed to worsening misogyny and oppression towards women. Afghanistan would make progress and then be bombed again as extremists like the Taliban slid into power.
I think Nordberg needed to do better with listening at times, specifically regarding gender nonconforming politics. She saw everything through a Western lens, quoting Western gender theorists and so forth. She did not seem to have the ability to allow Afghan people to have their own unique ways of treating sex and gender separate from the West. When one child who was female assigned at birth claims he is a boy, Nordberg dismisses this, using female pronouns and refusing to respect him. Nordberg struggled to tell the difference between a person saying, "I want to continue pretending to be a boy so I can do the things boys get to do," and a person saying, "I AM a boy," often having major physical and social gender dysphoria. Nordberg tends to dismiss it all as a side effect of being raised a certain way that cannot actually overcome assigned sex. But, gender is extremely complicated and cultural. Trans people exist all over the world and are raised in all kinds of ways. We all have something in common and that is a strong feeling that we are not what people try to force us to be. It saddened me that Nordberg was very intent on her thesis and Western feminist way of seeing things. Perhaps gender and sexuality is completely different in Afghanistan. She does capture this at times but then will sort of slide backwards.
Even so, I struggled trying to decide if I should give this a 3 or 4 star rating. The information inside is really good and it taught me so much about what Afghan women endure and the creative and brilliant ways they cope and survive. It taught me that, in some ways, Afghans are LESS hung up on gender than Westerners- particularly regarding children. It taught me more about Afghan local politics and social mores. I just wish Nordberg was more respectful of the reality that other areas of the world have their own ways of processing things and that that is ok. Obviously, I am not referring to rampant misogynistic violence being ok. But, a trans child discovering their gender through being dressed and treated a certain way can make total sense.
The best parts of this book were learning about the different girls' and boys' lives, views, fashion, stories, and so on. Masculine women, transmasculine people, and so on all exist and are influenced by the gender norms and world around them. It is this we have in common- gender norms and roles are influencing all of us all of the time all over the world. We are all doing our best to figure ourselves out and survive the process.
I think Nordberg needed to do better with listening at times, specifically regarding gender nonconforming politics. She saw everything through a Western lens, quoting Western gender theorists and so forth. She did not seem to have the ability to allow Afghan people to have their own unique ways of treating sex and gender separate from the West. When one child who was female assigned at birth claims he is a boy, Nordberg dismisses this, using female pronouns and refusing to respect him. Nordberg struggled to tell the difference between a person saying, "I want to continue pretending to be a boy so I can do the things boys get to do," and a person saying, "I AM a boy," often having major physical and social gender dysphoria. Nordberg tends to dismiss it all as a side effect of being raised a certain way that cannot actually overcome assigned sex. But, gender is extremely complicated and cultural. Trans people exist all over the world and are raised in all kinds of ways. We all have something in common and that is a strong feeling that we are not what people try to force us to be. It saddened me that Nordberg was very intent on her thesis and Western feminist way of seeing things. Perhaps gender and sexuality is completely different in Afghanistan. She does capture this at times but then will sort of slide backwards.
Even so, I struggled trying to decide if I should give this a 3 or 4 star rating. The information inside is really good and it taught me so much about what Afghan women endure and the creative and brilliant ways they cope and survive. It taught me that, in some ways, Afghans are LESS hung up on gender than Westerners- particularly regarding children. It taught me more about Afghan local politics and social mores. I just wish Nordberg was more respectful of the reality that other areas of the world have their own ways of processing things and that that is ok. Obviously, I am not referring to rampant misogynistic violence being ok. But, a trans child discovering their gender through being dressed and treated a certain way can make total sense.
The best parts of this book were learning about the different girls' and boys' lives, views, fashion, stories, and so on. Masculine women, transmasculine people, and so on all exist and are influenced by the gender norms and world around them. It is this we have in common- gender norms and roles are influencing all of us all of the time all over the world. We are all doing our best to figure ourselves out and survive the process.
kaitgrau8's review against another edition
3.0
Informative for sure, just felt repetitive at times. Kind of struggled but was determined to finish it.