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sarkenobi's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
mysterious
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.25
manzabar's review against another edition
3.0
Mostly rather *meh* but the last 100 or so pages sucked me in, as evidenced by me staying up till 3:00 AM reading the end.
pauvals's review against another edition
2.0
La verdad es que lo terminé en parte porque no me gusta dejar libros sin terminar, en parte porque siempre guardo la "esperanza" de encontrar esa parte del libro que me mueva el piso. Bueno, como dicen en inglés, long story short, no encontré esa parte. Se puso "bien" interesante recién cerca del final: ahí pasaron muchas cosas, toda la trama empezó a agilizarse. Me pareció que muchas ideas eran reiterativas: meritocracia, robots controladores, meritocracia en dos párrafos seguidos, robots controladores, poder, meritocracia poderosa... Una cosa es desarrollar un tema de interés particular por el autor a lo largo de la historia, plantear esas situaciones; otra es sólo nombrar los conceptos.
Por otro lado está el hecho de que no leí la saga original, ni el libro previo, por lo que no sé cuán conectado o no está con anteriores historias. Me gustaría leer la original, para ver de dónde vienen las cosas, sólo espero que no esté escrita en el mismo tono. El estilo de descripción de los personajes usado no es la que más me gusta (no sabría describirla tampoco, no cuando tengo ganas de escribir rápido, y tengo que irme a estudiar).
En fin, me entretuve pero hasta ahí nomás.
Por otro lado está el hecho de que no leí la saga original, ni el libro previo, por lo que no sé cuán conectado o no está con anteriores historias. Me gustaría leer la original, para ver de dónde vienen las cosas, sólo espero que no esté escrita en el mismo tono. El estilo de descripción de los personajes usado no es la que más me gusta (no sabría describirla tampoco, no cuando tengo ganas de escribir rápido, y tengo que irme a estudiar).
En fin, me entretuve pero hasta ahí nomás.
eoghann's review
3.0
Foundation and Chaos is book two of the Second Foundation Trilogy is rather different to book one. For a start Bear sticks more faithfully to the Foundation universe as described by Asimov. How important that is will vary depending on the reader. More importantly, the plot of this book feels more cohesive, resulting in a more entertaining read.
The Second Foundation Trilogy covers the life of Hari Seldon, his invention of psychohistory and his setting up of the two Foundations. This particular book concentrates on the period of his life when he was put on trial by the crumbling Empire. Although Hari Seldon is the main character of the trilogy (and thus this particular book) large parts of it are witnessed through the eyes of other characters. This is both interesting and frustrating at the same time.
On the one hand we get to explore Trantor from various perspectives. On the other, I found Seldon to be one of the most interesting characters and wanted to spend more time in his head. There is an overarching plot to this trilogy, the exact nature of which is not clear yet. In the first book, there were sections which seemed totally irrelevant to the main thrust of the book. During this book, the various strands become rather more entwined. Even so the significance is not at all clear. Plotwise, perhaps the most significant change from book one to book two is the portrayal of R Daneel Olivaw. In this book he seems less human. A not unnatural condition for a robot as old as he is by this point. His obsession with “protecting” the human race while still genuine goodwill on his part, seems less healthy now and maybe counterproductive. He also seems a little too free at manipulating people.
As I mentioned this book is more faithful to the Foundation Universe. No more wormholes, we’re back to hyperships again. This book reads and feels more like an Asimov Foundation story. The themes are very much those which Asimov used throughout his Foundation writing too. Unfortunately there is still something missing. The book is well written, the characters interesting and the setting well developed. Its good, its just not quite Foundation.
The Second Foundation Trilogy covers the life of Hari Seldon, his invention of psychohistory and his setting up of the two Foundations. This particular book concentrates on the period of his life when he was put on trial by the crumbling Empire. Although Hari Seldon is the main character of the trilogy (and thus this particular book) large parts of it are witnessed through the eyes of other characters. This is both interesting and frustrating at the same time.
On the one hand we get to explore Trantor from various perspectives. On the other, I found Seldon to be one of the most interesting characters and wanted to spend more time in his head. There is an overarching plot to this trilogy, the exact nature of which is not clear yet. In the first book, there were sections which seemed totally irrelevant to the main thrust of the book. During this book, the various strands become rather more entwined. Even so the significance is not at all clear. Plotwise, perhaps the most significant change from book one to book two is the portrayal of R Daneel Olivaw. In this book he seems less human. A not unnatural condition for a robot as old as he is by this point. His obsession with “protecting” the human race while still genuine goodwill on his part, seems less healthy now and maybe counterproductive. He also seems a little too free at manipulating people.
As I mentioned this book is more faithful to the Foundation Universe. No more wormholes, we’re back to hyperships again. This book reads and feels more like an Asimov Foundation story. The themes are very much those which Asimov used throughout his Foundation writing too. Unfortunately there is still something missing. The book is well written, the characters interesting and the setting well developed. Its good, its just not quite Foundation.
waden34's review
1.0
I almost gave this two stars until I realized how utterly pointless the book was. Nothing in the story advances the plot of the Foundation Series until the last 10 pages or so.
The "sims" were (thankfully) largely downplayed after their disastrous introduction in Foundation's Fear. There was no VR immersion nonsense either. It also wasn't nearly as long (albeit still 350 pages or so too long in my opinion...). So in these regards, it was not as bad as Fear was.
But, there were robots. Tons and tons of robots for no reason other than to fight with each other for some reason. Daneel is back, and changed for the worse. In previous books, Asimov stated how it was very hard for Daneel to manipulate someone's mind even a small amount. In this book he is having entire conversations with people just to erase their memory of it when he is done. Why??
Asimov would be rolling over in his grave if he realized how his legacy was tainted by his greedy survivors.
The "sims" were (thankfully) largely downplayed after their disastrous introduction in Foundation's Fear. There was no VR immersion nonsense either. It also wasn't nearly as long (albeit still 350 pages or so too long in my opinion...). So in these regards, it was not as bad as Fear was.
But, there were robots. Tons and tons of robots for no reason other than to fight with each other for some reason. Daneel is back, and changed for the worse. In previous books, Asimov stated how it was very hard for Daneel to manipulate someone's mind even a small amount. In this book he is having entire conversations with people just to erase their memory of it when he is done. Why??
Asimov would be rolling over in his grave if he realized how his legacy was tainted by his greedy survivors.
verkisto's review against another edition
3.0
So far, I think Greg Bear is my favorite author out of the entire Foundation series. Gregory Benford was definitely a step in the right direction with his characterization skills, but Bear takes that same skill and adds a prevailing plot that keeps the story moving along. It still gets bogged down with a lot of details, but overall, I think he brings the best combination of talents to bear with this novel.
This novel is a direct continuation, thematically, to Foundation's Fear (the story's chronology takes place a couple of decades after the events in that novel), and focuses more on how the robots play into the entire series. It helps alleviate some of the surprise I felt with the preceding novel, since I felt like the robots were over-represented, when Asimov had made them a rather understated element of the series, despite them being the reason the Foundation existed at all. But this trilogy appears to be an examination of the robots and their role in those events, which makes the series feel a little more significant.
I still have trouble accepting the idea that the events of over 20,000 years of history were all part of a grand plan set in place so long ago. It's not a criticism of the books or the series; I'm just not comfortable with the idea that individuals aren't all that important in the grand scheme of things. Life already reminds us that our existence is fleeting, and that we may not be as significant as we think we are; I don't want my fiction having to remind me of that fact, as well. I read to escape, not to be reminded of my ultimate futility.
One aspect of the book that I initially disliked was the rehashing of the trial that began this series some 70 years ago. At first, I thought it was a way to pad out the book, but as the trial continued, I realized that we were seeing more of what was going on behind that trial. Asimov's version moved quickly and clinically, focusing more on the elements of psychohistory than the people behind it; Bear delved into the people behind the trial, focusing on Seldon, Dornick, and other characters who weren't even mentioned in that initial story. It cemented the trial and made it more real, and I realized that this "rehash" was more necessary than I first realized.
I find it odd to consider that the book's theme reinforces the idea of the futility of an individual in the history of the world, while the focus of the story itself is on the individuals. I'm not sure if it's meant to be reassuring, or if it's just irony, but either way it made the book more readable for me.
With this book complete, I have one last volume to read to be done with Foundation for good (save for the Robot series, which is still up in the air with me). I don't see it as a series that I would want to read again in the future, but I'm glad that I've made it this far. It felt like one of those series that I needed to read, and I'm glad to say that I have.
This novel is a direct continuation, thematically, to Foundation's Fear (the story's chronology takes place a couple of decades after the events in that novel), and focuses more on how the robots play into the entire series. It helps alleviate some of the surprise I felt with the preceding novel, since I felt like the robots were over-represented, when Asimov had made them a rather understated element of the series, despite them being the reason the Foundation existed at all. But this trilogy appears to be an examination of the robots and their role in those events, which makes the series feel a little more significant.
I still have trouble accepting the idea that the events of over 20,000 years of history were all part of a grand plan set in place so long ago. It's not a criticism of the books or the series; I'm just not comfortable with the idea that individuals aren't all that important in the grand scheme of things. Life already reminds us that our existence is fleeting, and that we may not be as significant as we think we are; I don't want my fiction having to remind me of that fact, as well. I read to escape, not to be reminded of my ultimate futility.
One aspect of the book that I initially disliked was the rehashing of the trial that began this series some 70 years ago. At first, I thought it was a way to pad out the book, but as the trial continued, I realized that we were seeing more of what was going on behind that trial. Asimov's version moved quickly and clinically, focusing more on the elements of psychohistory than the people behind it; Bear delved into the people behind the trial, focusing on Seldon, Dornick, and other characters who weren't even mentioned in that initial story. It cemented the trial and made it more real, and I realized that this "rehash" was more necessary than I first realized.
I find it odd to consider that the book's theme reinforces the idea of the futility of an individual in the history of the world, while the focus of the story itself is on the individuals. I'm not sure if it's meant to be reassuring, or if it's just irony, but either way it made the book more readable for me.
With this book complete, I have one last volume to read to be done with Foundation for good (save for the Robot series, which is still up in the air with me). I don't see it as a series that I would want to read again in the future, but I'm glad that I've made it this far. It felt like one of those series that I needed to read, and I'm glad to say that I have.
manuti's review against another edition
2.0
Siguiendo con la trilogía incluida en la lista de libros de 2008 – 2009. Después del anterior, este continúa las aventuras del matemático Hari Seldon. Si del anterior dije que era un poco space opera, este es algo más, y en general entra en una serie de historias con los robots (una constante de Asimov) que me ha gustado menos que el anterior, por lo que se queda con solo 2 estrellas.
nakedsteve's review against another edition
3.0
The further adventures of R. Daneel and Hari Seldon. The book was good enough that I kept reading it without being too pissed off, but I wasn't ever really that enamored of it. That's the same feeling I've always gotten from Greg Bear's writing, though, so I shouldn't be too surprised...
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