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hank's review against another edition
3.0
I am sure I am not the first one to think or say this but I am not smart enough for Greg Egan. I got a lot out of the book, some great thoughts about what you would do if you realized (suddenly or otherwise) that you were a virtual person, cloned off of a real person and the only control you had over your life was when to end it. Some other great thoughts about that same virtual environment, expanding it and playing god or not playing god depending on how you want to interpret how the simulation was created.
In the end there were too many details, all very much thought out, about everything. The story really got lost and although I love my hard science, apparently I really need a story to go along with it.
In the end there were too many details, all very much thought out, about everything. The story really got lost and although I love my hard science, apparently I really need a story to go along with it.
bechols's review against another edition
4.0
Absolutely mind-boggling that this was written in 1994 - it anticipates SO MANY things that either happened or are still being actively discussed. The second half of the narrative didn't really hold together for me, but still strongly recommended.
aleffert's review against another edition
2.0
I have this awesome string of random bits that I'm hiding in my pocket. It is a magical fairy land with dragons and wizards and lots of attractive princesses that need saving. What do you mean that's just pocket lint? It's all information! I can interpret it however I want. There's so much pocket lint in the world surely some of it is actually Narnia. In my pocket lint universe I am an immortal god! My name is only spoken in awed pocket lint whispers. What do you mean pocket lint immortal god Me has nothing to do with the Me that you've known for the last three hundred pages? We've got the same name. We look the same. Sometimes we say the same things!
The premise of this book made no sense. That's fine in the abstract. There are plenty of books worth reading that make no sense. But this is a Greg Egan book, so the real point of it is the idea, which as I may have mentioned, makes no sense. Go read his collection Axiomatic instead.
The premise of this book made no sense. That's fine in the abstract. There are plenty of books worth reading that make no sense. But this is a Greg Egan book, so the real point of it is the idea, which as I may have mentioned, makes no sense. Go read his collection Axiomatic instead.
tends's review against another edition
5.0
I want to be clear that the 5 stars are not being given for the plot. The actual story and the characters were weak for the most part. What I loved about the book was the exploration of the philosophy. It left me with a "disconnected" feeling that I found fascinating.
hagbard_celine's review against another edition
3.0
Interesting (and not as dated as you'd expect). Either I'm stupid, or the ending is a mess.
branch_c's review against another edition
2.0
I'd been meaning to try something by Egan, and this one caught my eye. I can't complain about the writing, exactly, and the concepts are certainly fascinating, but I couldn't help feeling that the entire book was an extended extrapolation of a thought experiment, with the various characters giving voice to the sequence of logical steps through the scenario and its variations. If this had all been setup before launching into a compelling plot, then that would be one thing - but I'm afraid, for me, the narrative wasn't that engaging. Yes, the characters do have their stories, but they exist in service to the playing out of the thought experiment, rather than the other way around. I'll probably give another one of Egan's books a try - he's clearly a sharp guy, and his writing is polished, so maybe I'll like a different one of his experiments better than this one.
remlezar's review against another edition
5.0
Permutation City, more than any other book in recent memory, blew my mind. It explores territory that is as horrifying as it is interesting. At its core, the novel is about blurring the line that defines what it is to be human, or at least, what it is to be alive. If it was possible to create an exact clone of a person, complete with the original person’s feelings, memories, thoughts, and fears, is that clone a human? Most people would respond in the affirmative to this question, I think. After all, a perfect clone is a flesh and blood thing, and it can interact with other humans just like anyone else. If you did not know the clone was a clone, it would be impossible to discern the difference between the clone and anyone else.
But what if that clone was a perfect digital copy of a person? It still has all of the original’s thoughts, feelings, hopes, and dreams, but it’s missing a traditional body. Does that matter? Isn’t our mind what makes us human? I don’t think anyone would argue that getting a prosthetic leg makes someone less human, so why would it be any different if the entire body was gone?
If there is a digital copy of a person, what does it mean to be the “original?” The copy still has all of the original’s memories, and isn’t that what makes the original the original? Is the idea of an “original” in this scenario even worth considering? Or is this more like the splitting of a person – they both have a shared life before the copy, but now they are each free to live completely separate lives with entirely unique experiences.
What if you could make any number of copies of that simulated person? Does each still have the same value as the flesh and blood person the copies are based on? For the digital copies themselves, they would almost surely believe their life has value. Isn’t the ability to recognize oneself in that way worth something? Isn’t it worth everything?
Does it matter that this hypothetical person is simulated? Why should a simulated life be any less meaningful than a “real” life? If you were to somehow discover that the life you’ve been leading was a simulation, you would very likely hold onto the idea that your simulated life had value. Or maybe you would lose your mind, whatever that might mean in that context.
What if you could take these scanned, simulated people and put them into a simulated world together? This world would undoubtedly be very different than the one we know, but, to those inside, is it any less real? And if it is real to the people (if we’re calling them people) inside the simulation, how can anyone outside of it claim that it isn’t?
What if this simulated world could last for thousands, millions, or even billions of years? The people inside could outlive their flesh and blood counterparts. Are they living a kind of immortal life? In a scenario where they do outlive their flesh and blood counterparts, are humans extinct? Or are the people in the simulation still human?
What does it mean to be alive? What does it mean to be human?
***
Permutation City isn’t perfect. There are significant narrative issues that fester throughout the novel, and most of the characters didn’t do much for me. The “Dust Theory” idea presented about halfway through was so mindbogglingly confusing that I had break to do some outside research, which I am glad I did. But the incredibly powerful ideas and questions that this book raised and explored are more than enough to land it on my “favorite books I read this year” list. After letting it digest for a while, It might even end up on my list of “favorite books I’ve ever read," for what that’s worth.
But what if that clone was a perfect digital copy of a person? It still has all of the original’s thoughts, feelings, hopes, and dreams, but it’s missing a traditional body. Does that matter? Isn’t our mind what makes us human? I don’t think anyone would argue that getting a prosthetic leg makes someone less human, so why would it be any different if the entire body was gone?
If there is a digital copy of a person, what does it mean to be the “original?” The copy still has all of the original’s memories, and isn’t that what makes the original the original? Is the idea of an “original” in this scenario even worth considering? Or is this more like the splitting of a person – they both have a shared life before the copy, but now they are each free to live completely separate lives with entirely unique experiences.
What if you could make any number of copies of that simulated person? Does each still have the same value as the flesh and blood person the copies are based on? For the digital copies themselves, they would almost surely believe their life has value. Isn’t the ability to recognize oneself in that way worth something? Isn’t it worth everything?
Does it matter that this hypothetical person is simulated? Why should a simulated life be any less meaningful than a “real” life? If you were to somehow discover that the life you’ve been leading was a simulation, you would very likely hold onto the idea that your simulated life had value. Or maybe you would lose your mind, whatever that might mean in that context.
What if you could take these scanned, simulated people and put them into a simulated world together? This world would undoubtedly be very different than the one we know, but, to those inside, is it any less real? And if it is real to the people (if we’re calling them people) inside the simulation, how can anyone outside of it claim that it isn’t?
What if this simulated world could last for thousands, millions, or even billions of years? The people inside could outlive their flesh and blood counterparts. Are they living a kind of immortal life? In a scenario where they do outlive their flesh and blood counterparts, are humans extinct? Or are the people in the simulation still human?
What does it mean to be alive? What does it mean to be human?
***
Permutation City isn’t perfect. There are significant narrative issues that fester throughout the novel, and most of the characters didn’t do much for me. The “Dust Theory” idea presented about halfway through was so mindbogglingly confusing that I had break to do some outside research, which I am glad I did. But the incredibly powerful ideas and questions that this book raised and explored are more than enough to land it on my “favorite books I read this year” list. After letting it digest for a while, It might even end up on my list of “favorite books I’ve ever read," for what that’s worth.
rocketiza's review against another edition
4.0
One of the more successful books in making me question reality. I kept reaching parts that I thought I wasn't getting it, but made sense about half a hour later after I put the book down and through about it.
ninj's review against another edition
5.0
Wow. Mid 21st century, deep into simulation territory, scans of people that can be run in a simulated environment. Seen both from the outside, and from the inside, subjectively.
It's so ... evocative.
A lot of philosophical musings, which reminded me of Lady of Mazes.
And times when characters are on the verge of ... radical insights on consciousness and self and reality, and you as the reader feel like you're right there, also on the verge of radical insights.
It's so ... evocative.
A lot of philosophical musings, which reminded me of Lady of Mazes.
And times when characters are on the verge of ... radical insights on consciousness and self and reality, and you as the reader feel like you're right there, also on the verge of radical insights.