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mjeshurun's review against another edition
1.0
Another weak attempt by Plato to sell the notion of totalitarianism.
It's just too bad many politicians actually try to implement these ideas.
It's just too bad many politicians actually try to implement these ideas.
eb00kie's review
informative
reflective
slow-paced
4.0
The one Plato work that makes for accessible, organised, reading
I have the greatest respect for Plato’s work and what it has meant for Western thought and Western culture. To my chagrin, Plato and the Socratic dialogues have proven rage-inducing to go through, if you are like me the sort who:
* sees an argument that looks strange
* picks it apart, because believes character is flippant
* works on refuting it for 5 minutes
* realises author is dead and can’t answer
* does a Tasmanian Devil impersonation
However, here we are dealing with a lecture, rather than a debate, which will hopefully make it easier to digest the ideas.
If not, this book might still be for you, as a coherent, comprehensive layout for main governance issues or for the mental exercise of ‘coding’ a fictional Polis from scratch. It is very rewarding.
I have the greatest respect for Plato’s work and what it has meant for Western thought and Western culture. To my chagrin, Plato and the Socratic dialogues have proven rage-inducing to go through, if you are like me the sort who:
* sees an argument that looks strange
* picks it apart, because believes character is flippant
* works on refuting it for 5 minutes
* realises author is dead and can’t answer
* does a Tasmanian Devil impersonation
However, here we are dealing with a lecture, rather than a debate, which will hopefully make it easier to digest the ideas.
If not, this book might still be for you, as a coherent, comprehensive layout for main governance issues or for the mental exercise of ‘coding’ a fictional Polis from scratch. It is very rewarding.
cadonelson's review against another edition
5.0
I literally got anxious toward the end because I thought he was about to answer the central question of the Meno (What is ‘Virtue’ (arete) as a whole; that is, what is it which is common to all virtues, such that we would say they are all Virtue) but he got around it again by saying that the Guardians of the Laws of this new city would be the ones who decided this after much intense labor and deliberation. But it’s interesting that he doesn’t say virtue comes from the gods, and is instead what is reasoned from these wisest of wise men. I think the Laws might be my favorite dialogue. It doesn’t have the most beautiful imagery, it doesn’t dwell on the more divine philosophical implications of things; Plato has already written extensively about those things in all of his other dialogues. The Laws is Plato’s last dialogue, and as such it incorporates many ideas from his previous dialogues, but doesn’t dwell on expanding them so much in the Laws. Here Plato creates a comprehensive structure in which these ideas of virtue, beauty, divinity, etc. have a place in human lives and how we order ourselves to these concepts and thus become good men, and the fact that Plato sought to undertake that task and did so in a very compelling, artful, and comprehensive way is probably the most beautiful thing Plato ever did.
kricitt's review
challenging
informative
reflective
slow-paced
4.25
Pangle is a fine translator - the Laws itself is one of the more straightforward dialogues, and a great companion to be read after the Republic. The notes were lacking for me - the explanatory ones were often too simple, and a fair majority were repetitions of "the word for [something] is the same root as nature". Overall, though, highly recommended translation.
exitentizoid's review against another edition
Was reading for class, I'm not going to finish it right now.
natashas's review against another edition
5.0
my philosophy mostly aligns with the third interlocutor, or the stranger from Athens. idk if i'd live in Magnesia but cool concept. interesting stuff.
ulalu's review against another edition
challenging
inspiring
reflective
slow-paced
4.25
Honestly, better than the republic. This is what that book might have looked like if Plato was speaking to the real world- if a true utopia is impossible, what is to be done? Less universal than the Republic because there are peculiarities specific to the time and place of Ancient Greece, but compelling and interesting. I thoroughly disagreed with vast swaths of his reasoning, and have the same problem I do with ALL the discourses; namely that the conversationalist concede ridiculous premises to the main debater all over the place. But it's still good and raises a number of questions that are still relevant to contemporary audiences.
skitch41's review against another edition
2.0
When starting a new nation, the founding laws are key to that nation’s long term survival. Written well, and your nation will flourish. Written poorly and your nation will not last for long. In that spirit, when given the theoretical chance to found a new city-state in Ancient Greece, Plato attacks the issue with relish in this dialogue that may also have been one of his last written works. In some ways, it is a sequel to “The Republic,” but, unlike that classic book of philosophy, this one is not very interesting. Indeed, this book was mostly tedious. There were a few interesting sections, like his sections on education and religion, but most were dull. Also, I’m sure glad Plato isn’t founding anything in reality today as few of the laws he writes down would fly in modern society. Truly, this book is only for those who have a serious interest in ancient philosophy. For those with a passing interest, you can stick with “The Republic” and be satisfied.