You need to sign in or sign up before continuing.
Take a photo of a barcode or cover
3.72 AVERAGE
3.72 AVERAGE
I haven't been so addicted to a book since I first delved into the Malazan series. Post-Erikson distaste hit me hard. I tried WOT, Gwynne's series, Mistborn, The Dragonbone Chair, and others. None could compare to the quality that Malazan embodied. Until now. The Darkness That Comes Before is a truly excellent book. If I had money, I would buy the second one on Kindle right now. I can't wait to see where this goes.
Fantasy is kind of a strange genre that seems to attract and foster amateurish writing. People tend to praise certain authors for world building when it seems little more than a sprinkling of bits of lore on a generic map. Bakker, like Erikson, has created a world that seems alive and inhabited. It is a world with real history. It is a world that, though built with the bones of our own world, grew to become something different and fascinating and still strangely recognizable. His characters and institutions and events are so vivid, yet they also bring our world into sharp focus. This is fiction at its best.
Like Malazan, this book has received a lot of hatred for its seeming impenetrability. I'll admit that the first chapter was almost incomprehensible to me, but I don't expect to understand everything initially, and I think Bakker actually managed the exposition quite neatly. You understand this world through immersion, by being shown, and not told. There was a particularly shocking moment in Malice, by John Gwynne, that brought this into the light. After the first or second chapter, there was literally a backstory chapter. It was shoddily framed as in-universe writing, but really, it struck me as somewhat pathetic. Part of the joy of a fantasy series is learning as you go, and this feeble attempt at explanation robbed me of that.
Bakker, in contrast, did everything correctly. Information about the world is revealed mostly through exploratory, realistic dialogue. There's also an extraordinary subversion here. Kellhus, my favorite character, is an outsider with little knowledge of this world. I feared that this was going to be nothing more than a way to introduce more expository world building through an ignorant character, like how other fantasy series will use sheltered, child characters. However, Cnaiür distrusts Kellhus and doesn't tell him anything, and Kellhus is so intelligent that he infers most of the necessary information himself. Bakker could have taken the easy way out and didn't.
Kellhus is just a brilliant piece of writing all around. He strikes me as a kind of dark Buddhist, someone who is completely enlightened and dispassionate with only a care for their mission. When completely free from attachment, it seems obvious that everything would immediately become instrumental, subservient only to whatever purpose you've assigned yourself. Bakker brings this character to uncomfortable vividity. Every phrase he utters or look he gives had me suspicious. It imbued every Kellhus scene with an immanent weight.
I could go on, but if you want to delve into fantasy and don't want to waste your time, book 1 of the Second Apocalypse is a great place to start.
Fantasy is kind of a strange genre that seems to attract and foster amateurish writing. People tend to praise certain authors for world building when it seems little more than a sprinkling of bits of lore on a generic map. Bakker, like Erikson, has created a world that seems alive and inhabited. It is a world with real history. It is a world that, though built with the bones of our own world, grew to become something different and fascinating and still strangely recognizable. His characters and institutions and events are so vivid, yet they also bring our world into sharp focus. This is fiction at its best.
Like Malazan, this book has received a lot of hatred for its seeming impenetrability. I'll admit that the first chapter was almost incomprehensible to me, but I don't expect to understand everything initially, and I think Bakker actually managed the exposition quite neatly. You understand this world through immersion, by being shown, and not told. There was a particularly shocking moment in Malice, by John Gwynne, that brought this into the light. After the first or second chapter, there was literally a backstory chapter. It was shoddily framed as in-universe writing, but really, it struck me as somewhat pathetic. Part of the joy of a fantasy series is learning as you go, and this feeble attempt at explanation robbed me of that.
Bakker, in contrast, did everything correctly. Information about the world is revealed mostly through exploratory, realistic dialogue. There's also an extraordinary subversion here. Kellhus, my favorite character, is an outsider with little knowledge of this world. I feared that this was going to be nothing more than a way to introduce more expository world building through an ignorant character, like how other fantasy series will use sheltered, child characters. However, Cnaiür distrusts Kellhus and doesn't tell him anything, and Kellhus is so intelligent that he infers most of the necessary information himself. Bakker could have taken the easy way out and didn't.
Kellhus is just a brilliant piece of writing all around. He strikes me as a kind of dark Buddhist, someone who is completely enlightened and dispassionate with only a care for their mission. When completely free from attachment, it seems obvious that everything would immediately become instrumental, subservient only to whatever purpose you've assigned yourself. Bakker brings this character to uncomfortable vividity. Every phrase he utters or look he gives had me suspicious. It imbued every Kellhus scene with an immanent weight.
I could go on, but if you want to delve into fantasy and don't want to waste your time, book 1 of the Second Apocalypse is a great place to start.
dark
reflective
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
Character
Strong character development:
Complicated
Loveable characters:
Complicated
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
This book was so promising, with beautiful prose and a really interesting world. Small details of day to day life really made the setting come alive. I enjoyed the early chapters with Achamian and Esmenet. I also liked that it had something to say, which is rare for fantasy books IMO.
I thought I was just going to have smaller gripes with this book--the portrayal of all religious people as irrational, the political sections dragging, the difficulty following the names, the Dunyain
But then I got to Serwë. Bakker's treatment of women is abhorrent, and based on the gratuity of it and comments he's made online, I think it's pretty clear that he's coming from a sexist place. The point was apparently: "Depicting strong women, ‘magic exemptions’, simply fuels the boot-strapping illusion that is strangling contemporary feminism: the assumption that the individual can overcome their social circumstances." But of course it's possible to show women suffering in society and not have sex and sexual violence always be the lynchpin of their suffering. Also, it is completely possible to depict people facing discrimination and still showcase their cunning, resilience, and cleverness. It is so obvious that this is not the case with Serwë. There is literally a scene where she is present like a dog, referred to only in the third person. In another scene she convinces herself she is pregnant by a man she didn't have sex with. And of the only two female POVs in the book, one is a sex worker and the other is a "consort" (sex slave) who has been abducted into a different kind of sex slavery. Yikes, Bakker.
I thought I was just going to have smaller gripes with this book--the portrayal of all religious people as irrational, the political sections dragging, the difficulty following the names, the Dunyain
But then I got to Serwë. Bakker's treatment of women is abhorrent, and based on the gratuity of it and comments he's made online, I think it's pretty clear that he's coming from a sexist place. The point was apparently: "Depicting strong women, ‘magic exemptions’, simply fuels the boot-strapping illusion that is strangling contemporary feminism: the assumption that the individual can overcome their social circumstances." But of course it's possible to show women suffering in society and not have sex and sexual violence always be the lynchpin of their suffering. Also, it is completely possible to depict people facing discrimination and still showcase their cunning, resilience, and cleverness. It is so obvious that this is not the case with Serwë. There is literally a scene where she is present like a dog, referred to only in the third person. In another scene she convinces herself she is pregnant by a man she didn't have sex with. And of the only two female POVs in the book, one is a sex worker and the other is a "consort" (sex slave) who has been abducted into a different kind of sex slavery. Yikes, Bakker.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Adult/minor relationship, Domestic abuse, Homophobia, Incest, Misogyny, Rape, Sexism, Sexual assault, Sexual violence, Slavery, Torture, Xenophobia, Kidnapping, Religious bigotry, Murder, War, Injury/Injury detail
Minor: Addiction, Death of parent, Pregnancy
adventurous
dark
mysterious
tense
slow-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
A mix
Strong character development:
Yes
Loveable characters:
Complicated
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Complicated
adventurous
dark
emotional
tense
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
Plot
Strong character development:
Yes
Loveable characters:
Complicated
It didn't grab my attention. I wasn't interested in the characters.
I was sure I wrote a review, but I can't find it. So here's what I remember:
1. Some POV characters are really interesting (the barbarian guy... and I don't remember who else). But many are boring or annoying.
2. There's a lot of book but not a lot happens. Some whole plot lines (most) end up in nothing, and the book itself kinda just ends up not getting to much.
3. All the female charaters are terribly written. They are all horny and sexually assaulted all the time. You might say it's a criticism of masculine violence, but I don't buy it, it just feels sexist and cheap.
1. Some POV characters are really interesting (the barbarian guy... and I don't remember who else). But many are boring or annoying.
2. There's a lot of book but not a lot happens. Some whole plot lines (most) end up in nothing, and the book itself kinda just ends up not getting to much.
3. All the female charaters are terribly written. They are all horny and sexually assaulted all the time. You might say it's a criticism of masculine violence, but I don't buy it, it just feels sexist and cheap.
slow-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
Character
Strong character development:
No
Loveable characters:
No
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
adventurous
challenging
dark
mysterious
sad
medium-paced
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
My first time reading non lotr fantasy since I was 12 (!?) and given what I now see is Bakker's divisive reputation I can see I may have started in an odd place. Interesting to see that this entry to a genre which has a reputation for being more atmosphere focused than sci-fi suffers from many of the same problems that the latter genre does. Like a lot of sci-fi, several really compelling ideas are wrapped in layers of progressively less and less interesting ones. The process of wading through this giant book is mainly driven by your desire to chase down these little central ideas to their conclusion. Still, unlike sci-fi, Bakker has a gift for prose that allows several sections to stand on their own. Why am I reading this? I can't quite remember
dark
emotional
mysterious
tense
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
A mix
Strong character development:
Yes
Loveable characters:
Complicated
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
While the overall story and world building was enjoyable, the characters have complexity but it sometimes is not enough. This is also a part of the skills of one of the main characters