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ihavenouseforit's review against another edition
challenging
dark
informative
reflective
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.5
blackoxford's review
5.0
Young Soldiers Never Get Old
Old people (mostly men) have always induced (seduced) young people (mostly boys) to continue their childhood fantasies of violence and dominance into adulthood by joining the military. The sequence is important: “There ain’t nothing meaner than some little deranged six-year-old sadistic motherfucker loose in a playground.” This youthful sociopathy is a strategic asset that is nurtured.
The military opportunity is presented in quasi-religious terms as a ‘calling’ from God and Country which will demand and develop important personal virtues in impressionable youth - loyalty, discipline, and faith in one’s leaders among the most essential of these. Since it’s easiest to recruit (or coerce) these young people from god-fearing, less than well-educated, under-achieving families, the military has a distinct demographic, historically referred to as cannon-fodder.
Military training has more or less the same aim everywhere in the world - to break down the inhibitions that constrain childhood violence to mere verbal threat or minor mayhem. Such training is necessarily traumatic because “It do something to you to kill another person. It ain’t no dog lying there. Somebody. A person, talk like you, eat like you, got a mind like you. Got a soul like you.” So the most fundamental moral sense must be extinguished: “People shooting other people is bad and don’t nobody have to tell you, you born knowing that.”
Getting that fixed permanently in a young mind isn’t easy. Therefore a new ‘higher power’ has to be established, something called ‘us’, which justifies lethal action. So, as the drill sergeant says, “We got an image to uphold here. The best in the world. There’s a bunch of them going over there in a few months that ain’t coming back. They’re gonna die for their country, they’re gonna die for their Marine Corps, for all the softass civilians like you guys used to be.” From the eternal scrutiny of this higher power there is no escape. The soldier stays in the school yard, now part of a gang.
Only a fraction of military personnel end up as front line troops. They are the ones who do the eponymous dirty work and who get the full ‘benefit’ of their training. This is where the gang matters. They also receive the benefit-in-kind of the training of their opponents and their gangs. The most horrid of the reciprocal gifts received and given is not death but the inability to live with oneself.
Living comfortably with oneself is the most primitive level of ‘normality.’ Disfigurement is bad. Loss of abilities, perhaps even to walk or touch, is worse. But wanting to die is the worst. That’s the part they don’t train you for and the drill sergeant never mentions - what happens when it’s over but so much gets left behind, friends and ideals as well as body parts - theirs as well as ours.
There’s nothing more to imagine in youthful fantasy, and things “ain’t gonna get no better.” At that point Ennui becomes an incurable companion in convalescence: “It woulda been a lot better for mama to see me in my coffin laid out and watch them put me in the ground and blow taps over me than to see me like that.” Staying young is not an option; but neither, for many, is getting old.
Old people (mostly men) have always induced (seduced) young people (mostly boys) to continue their childhood fantasies of violence and dominance into adulthood by joining the military. The sequence is important: “There ain’t nothing meaner than some little deranged six-year-old sadistic motherfucker loose in a playground.” This youthful sociopathy is a strategic asset that is nurtured.
The military opportunity is presented in quasi-religious terms as a ‘calling’ from God and Country which will demand and develop important personal virtues in impressionable youth - loyalty, discipline, and faith in one’s leaders among the most essential of these. Since it’s easiest to recruit (or coerce) these young people from god-fearing, less than well-educated, under-achieving families, the military has a distinct demographic, historically referred to as cannon-fodder.
Military training has more or less the same aim everywhere in the world - to break down the inhibitions that constrain childhood violence to mere verbal threat or minor mayhem. Such training is necessarily traumatic because “It do something to you to kill another person. It ain’t no dog lying there. Somebody. A person, talk like you, eat like you, got a mind like you. Got a soul like you.” So the most fundamental moral sense must be extinguished: “People shooting other people is bad and don’t nobody have to tell you, you born knowing that.”
Getting that fixed permanently in a young mind isn’t easy. Therefore a new ‘higher power’ has to be established, something called ‘us’, which justifies lethal action. So, as the drill sergeant says, “We got an image to uphold here. The best in the world. There’s a bunch of them going over there in a few months that ain’t coming back. They’re gonna die for their country, they’re gonna die for their Marine Corps, for all the softass civilians like you guys used to be.” From the eternal scrutiny of this higher power there is no escape. The soldier stays in the school yard, now part of a gang.
Only a fraction of military personnel end up as front line troops. They are the ones who do the eponymous dirty work and who get the full ‘benefit’ of their training. This is where the gang matters. They also receive the benefit-in-kind of the training of their opponents and their gangs. The most horrid of the reciprocal gifts received and given is not death but the inability to live with oneself.
Living comfortably with oneself is the most primitive level of ‘normality.’ Disfigurement is bad. Loss of abilities, perhaps even to walk or touch, is worse. But wanting to die is the worst. That’s the part they don’t train you for and the drill sergeant never mentions - what happens when it’s over but so much gets left behind, friends and ideals as well as body parts - theirs as well as ours.
There’s nothing more to imagine in youthful fantasy, and things “ain’t gonna get no better.” At that point Ennui becomes an incurable companion in convalescence: “It woulda been a lot better for mama to see me in my coffin laid out and watch them put me in the ground and blow taps over me than to see me like that.” Staying young is not an option; but neither, for many, is getting old.
liznc's review
1.0
I must be the only one who didn’t care for this book and it was mostly because it was confusing whose pov it was half the time. Very raw subject and painful to read.
pybrarian's review against another edition
dark
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
ohhveronica's review against another edition
dark
emotional
sad
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
4.5
jordand90's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
informative
reflective
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
jimmypat's review against another edition
3.0
A fast paced psychological character study of two Vietnam vets. For me, though, the book was marred by its completely predictable, far-fetched, and disappointing ending. I had hoped that as these two men got to know each other that a new path ahead could be forged for their lives. Instead, it turns out to be a crass manipulation of one over the other - much like the situation that forged them both. I suppose that's the point, but it didn't seem particularly authentic and the sheer implausibility of how events played out drops this down one star.
grammapollyreads's review against another edition
4.0
This book is a Vietnam-war related book as it is about Vietnam war veterans. It is really a character-study as there is really not much action in the book. There is a lot of narrative and it may be difficult at times to determine who is narrated a particular chapter. However, it is well worth the read for anyone with an interest in Vietnam war literature.
vanquishingvolumes's review
3.0
3 Stars - I Liked It
Gritty, dark, and bleak this book about two men surviving the Vietnam war only to face the demon of that war their whole lives. It was a stark contrast to the pretty medals we place upon such men in the real world, sweeping the dirt away in place of pretty ribbons and shiny medals. We don’t often contemplate the very real impacts of war, and yes in this book you are forced to face them through the struggles of men irrevocably changed. The power of this book is in its absolute and total belief in the grim darkness of war, and how war impacts those at the heart of it.
Gritty, dark, and bleak this book about two men surviving the Vietnam war only to face the demon of that war their whole lives. It was a stark contrast to the pretty medals we place upon such men in the real world, sweeping the dirt away in place of pretty ribbons and shiny medals. We don’t often contemplate the very real impacts of war, and yes in this book you are forced to face them through the struggles of men irrevocably changed. The power of this book is in its absolute and total belief in the grim darkness of war, and how war impacts those at the heart of it.
whofalls's review against another edition
5.0
If "One Flew Over A Cuckoo's Nest" took place in a VA hospital it might be this book; however, I hardly like that comparison or comparisons for that matter. Larry Brown is a master and is compared to far too many people.