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bourg89's review against another edition
dark
emotional
mysterious
sad
tense
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.25
luke_archer's review against another edition
dark
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.25
chambamalam's review against another edition
adventurous
emotional
mysterious
tense
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
4.0
crystalstarrlight's review against another edition
5.0
"Darth Zannah, you are my apprentice. The heir to my legacy"
After greatly enjoying Star Wars. Darth Bane - Path of Destruction (PoD), I delved into part two.
Bane begins his training of his heir, Zannah, in the Dark Arts and continues to add confusion to the Republic and the Jedi Order. Can't really expand more on it than that, to be honest.
What I Liked:
One of the best things about this book is how it deals with such an under-explored area: the Sith. I enjoyed reading more about Bane, what happened immediately after the events in PoD, and seeing Zannah grow in the Dark Side.
Speaking of Zannah, she was one of those few female characters in the Star Wars universe (particularly recently) that I truly enjoyed without wanting to cry "MARY SUE!" after each scene she was in. I felt Karpyshyn did a superb job writing her as a child, balancing between her extreme skill for the Force and her naiveté. Also, I loved learning in flashbacks about her training and how they tied in to the current events (e.g. her first mission to draw the neek towards her was a great highlight and was perfectly placed with her mission to draw Kel into a confrontation with the Republic). She is a cunning woman, but yearning still for emotions, leading her to relationships with men, such as Kel. I enjoyed this view, showing that Sith cannot get all their fulfillment solely from the Dark Side.
Karpyshyn did, in my opinion, a good job moving from Bane's point of view to Zannah's. In PoD, Bane did most of the narrating; here, it is Zannah. We still see inside Bane's mind, which is great, but I do enjoy seeing the events from the apprentice who will carry on the legacy.
I also enjoyed the numerous Sith vs Jedi arguments in this book. I felt that they really brought both Orders to a new level of understanding, one that can't be shown in a movie or explained in most other books.
The pacing is quick. The characters don't spend much time sitting back, chattin' up the situation. They are out there, doing something. Yes, they have deep conversations, but they are perfectly blended into the surroundings so you don't feel like all they do is talk or they stop to talk about politics in a middle of a battle scene.
Karpyshyn also outdoes himself in the lightsaber duels. The latter one is particularly brilliant with five Jedi against two Sith. Won't tell you how that turns out, though I am sure you can guess.
What I Did Not Like:
I spent six years in college studying physics, chemistry, and engineering. I say this, because one of the biggest problems I have with this book is the following scene: Bane flies on a reptilian avian from the moon, Dxun to the planet, Onderon. Yes, you heard me, from a moon to a planet. Across the reaches of space. With only the Dark Side to encase him in a bubble of oxygen.
What the...??? Where do people come UP with these ideas? I like to think that I can turn my brain off and enjoy things, but this is too much!!
First off, does anyone know the density of the atmosphere in the Earth's upper layers? A cursory check will show that the ionosphere is not very dense...much less than the troposphere, where we live. For our daring duo, this means that FLIGHT would be nearly impossible for a reptilian bird! Flight for a bird is contingent on having a higher pressure on the underside of the wing than on the upperside. Since birds fly by flapping their wings and do not have an external fuel source (which is how rockets are able to fly), they would flap furiously and fall like dead flies. Not to mention, that this layer is "where many atoms are ionized (have gained or lost electrons so they have a net electrical charge)." If this is true on other Earth like planets (and at this point, we can't confirm or deny, but it seems to be more typical than not), then our riding duo are breathing IONS!!! This is crazy, you can't breathe ions!!! I don't care what weird Dark Side shield Bane puts around him (and note that it's only after they "leave the atmosphere" of Dxun that he does this!), that's gonna hurt!!
Okay, so the next point is: so let's say the planets are pretty darn close to each other (like they fudge in the book). Okay...if that's true, how do the gravitational powers inherent in both planets keep from ripping everything to shreds? Technically, no life should be on either planet, not if they get this close to each other, as the moon will pull at the planet and vice versa.
Tidal waves here on Earth show a very small idea of what gravitational forces can do. Now imagine that the moon is close to the size of the Earth (as it stands, it is approximately 1/4 of the diameter and 1/10 the surface area) and both are rotating about their combined center of gravity (the combined center of gravity of Earth and moon lies within the Earth's diameter, ensuring that the Moon orbits the Earth). We got some damn nasty tidal forces at work, that would have ensured that no flora and fauna would have made this their home. Not to mention, I have no clue how Dxun would get such a highly elliptical orbit to be INSIDE Onderon at its perigee and far away at its apogee. Add to that heap of incredibility the fact that the two planets are near the same size. They ought to be orbiting around their combined center of gravity (like Pluto and Charon), not around Onderon. Something is going wrong in this galaxy...
Okay, back to Rule of Two. Bane and avian went INTO vacuum (since there apparently was a wee bit of space--har har--between the two). So now we have the problem of traveling through space with absolutely NO external fuel drive in addition to NO oxygen and pressure (but we'll say that somehow Bane can accumulate enough of both to last him...well, don't want to spoil the surprise). So do Bane and avian spend the next 5 years floating to Onderon? Because it took the Apollo crafts THREE DAYS to reach the moon, traveling at about 3,000 meters per second and the distance between the Earth and the Moon is 384,403 km. Even given that Dxun and Onderon are closer than this, it would take Bane days traveling at a modest 60 mph (based on Earth birds of course) and this DOESN'T include that Bane can't accelerate or decelerate. FURTHERMORE, he is pointed haphazardly at Onderon, which means he could, quite possibly, MISS the planet all together!
And FURTHERMORE, how can he keep enough oxygen and pressure in his bubble to sustain him and his ride all this way?? People use a lot of oxygen, particularly when working. A human takes in about 500 cm3 in one breath with anywhere between 10 and 20 breaths a minute if there is no movement! So in one minute, if Bane is completely at rest, he is using 5000 cm3! This is no small area! I would love to see how he keeps enough oxygen in his bubble for TWO beings, one that is (or was) flying, how he keeps from his body fluids flying out of every orifice as he hits vacuum (does his bubble also provide pressure?), and how they continue to MOVE after they leave the atmosphere! I mean, they will have leftover momentum/inertia, but if Bane thinks that by flapping, the reptilian bird will still fly, he has NO KNOWLEDGE of Newton's Laws of Physics, particularly the third.
I will admit, as soon as I read this scene, I simultaneously wanted to laugh my a$$ off and throw this book at the wall. I can suspend a lot of belief--I read Star Wars for God's sake!--but this is more than I can handle. There are a million other things seen in the movies that never happen in real life. Laser bolts being dodged, hyperspace, sounds in space...the list is endless. I can handle those. But this? Nuh uh. No way.
Nit Pick Section
1.The character of Johun. I understand why he is there: to contrast with the Sith. However, I found his character bland and really treads that Marty Stu line (i.e. sneaking onto the planet despite orders and being, in one sense, promoted for it). A far more interesting character to have seen would have been Farfalla.
2.Zannah is described as the prerequisite stunningly attractive woman (though this isn't too hard to stomach, as she would need to be in good physical shape anyway).
Dialogue/Sexual Situations/Violence:
Language is Star Wars typical.
Bane mentions that Githany was his lover. Zannah takes her own lover, Kel. They share a bed and a few kisses, but their relations are restricted to that.
Violence is the heavy portion. A reptilian avian rips out the throat of another. Bane goes on killing sprees, as does his young prodigy. One body is cut into pieces. And Karpyshyn doesn't hold back on the gory description.
Overall:
Minus a serious scientific faux pas that made me question all subsequent science related events in this book, this is an amazing novel. It beautifully expands on what began in Path of Destruction and carries it to the next level. Highly recommended for those who enjoyed the first.
After greatly enjoying Star Wars. Darth Bane - Path of Destruction (PoD), I delved into part two.
Bane begins his training of his heir, Zannah, in the Dark Arts and continues to add confusion to the Republic and the Jedi Order. Can't really expand more on it than that, to be honest.
What I Liked:
One of the best things about this book is how it deals with such an under-explored area: the Sith. I enjoyed reading more about Bane, what happened immediately after the events in PoD, and seeing Zannah grow in the Dark Side.
Speaking of Zannah, she was one of those few female characters in the Star Wars universe (particularly recently) that I truly enjoyed without wanting to cry "MARY SUE!" after each scene she was in. I felt Karpyshyn did a superb job writing her as a child, balancing between her extreme skill for the Force and her naiveté. Also, I loved learning in flashbacks about her training and how they tied in to the current events (e.g. her first mission to draw the neek towards her was a great highlight and was perfectly placed with her mission to draw Kel into a confrontation with the Republic). She is a cunning woman, but yearning still for emotions, leading her to relationships with men, such as Kel. I enjoyed this view, showing that Sith cannot get all their fulfillment solely from the Dark Side.
Karpyshyn did, in my opinion, a good job moving from Bane's point of view to Zannah's. In PoD, Bane did most of the narrating; here, it is Zannah. We still see inside Bane's mind, which is great, but I do enjoy seeing the events from the apprentice who will carry on the legacy.
I also enjoyed the numerous Sith vs Jedi arguments in this book. I felt that they really brought both Orders to a new level of understanding, one that can't be shown in a movie or explained in most other books.
The pacing is quick. The characters don't spend much time sitting back, chattin' up the situation. They are out there, doing something. Yes, they have deep conversations, but they are perfectly blended into the surroundings so you don't feel like all they do is talk or they stop to talk about politics in a middle of a battle scene.
Karpyshyn also outdoes himself in the lightsaber duels. The latter one is particularly brilliant with five Jedi against two Sith. Won't tell you how that turns out, though I am sure you can guess.
What I Did Not Like:
I spent six years in college studying physics, chemistry, and engineering. I say this, because one of the biggest problems I have with this book is the following scene: Bane flies on a reptilian avian from the moon, Dxun to the planet, Onderon. Yes, you heard me, from a moon to a planet. Across the reaches of space. With only the Dark Side to encase him in a bubble of oxygen.
What the...??? Where do people come UP with these ideas? I like to think that I can turn my brain off and enjoy things, but this is too much!!
First off, does anyone know the density of the atmosphere in the Earth's upper layers? A cursory check will show that the ionosphere is not very dense...much less than the troposphere, where we live. For our daring duo, this means that FLIGHT would be nearly impossible for a reptilian bird! Flight for a bird is contingent on having a higher pressure on the underside of the wing than on the upperside. Since birds fly by flapping their wings and do not have an external fuel source (which is how rockets are able to fly), they would flap furiously and fall like dead flies. Not to mention, that this layer is "where many atoms are ionized (have gained or lost electrons so they have a net electrical charge)." If this is true on other Earth like planets (and at this point, we can't confirm or deny, but it seems to be more typical than not), then our riding duo are breathing IONS!!! This is crazy, you can't breathe ions!!! I don't care what weird Dark Side shield Bane puts around him (and note that it's only after they "leave the atmosphere" of Dxun that he does this!), that's gonna hurt!!
Okay, so the next point is: so let's say the planets are pretty darn close to each other (like they fudge in the book). Okay...if that's true, how do the gravitational powers inherent in both planets keep from ripping everything to shreds? Technically, no life should be on either planet, not if they get this close to each other, as the moon will pull at the planet and vice versa.
Tidal waves here on Earth show a very small idea of what gravitational forces can do. Now imagine that the moon is close to the size of the Earth (as it stands, it is approximately 1/4 of the diameter and 1/10 the surface area) and both are rotating about their combined center of gravity (the combined center of gravity of Earth and moon lies within the Earth's diameter, ensuring that the Moon orbits the Earth). We got some damn nasty tidal forces at work, that would have ensured that no flora and fauna would have made this their home. Not to mention, I have no clue how Dxun would get such a highly elliptical orbit to be INSIDE Onderon at its perigee and far away at its apogee. Add to that heap of incredibility the fact that the two planets are near the same size. They ought to be orbiting around their combined center of gravity (like Pluto and Charon), not around Onderon. Something is going wrong in this galaxy...
Okay, back to Rule of Two. Bane and avian went INTO vacuum (since there apparently was a wee bit of space--har har--between the two). So now we have the problem of traveling through space with absolutely NO external fuel drive in addition to NO oxygen and pressure (but we'll say that somehow Bane can accumulate enough of both to last him...well, don't want to spoil the surprise). So do Bane and avian spend the next 5 years floating to Onderon? Because it took the Apollo crafts THREE DAYS to reach the moon, traveling at about 3,000 meters per second and the distance between the Earth and the Moon is 384,403 km. Even given that Dxun and Onderon are closer than this, it would take Bane days traveling at a modest 60 mph (based on Earth birds of course) and this DOESN'T include that Bane can't accelerate or decelerate. FURTHERMORE, he is pointed haphazardly at Onderon, which means he could, quite possibly, MISS the planet all together!
And FURTHERMORE, how can he keep enough oxygen and pressure in his bubble to sustain him and his ride all this way?? People use a lot of oxygen, particularly when working. A human takes in about 500 cm3 in one breath with anywhere between 10 and 20 breaths a minute if there is no movement! So in one minute, if Bane is completely at rest, he is using 5000 cm3! This is no small area! I would love to see how he keeps enough oxygen in his bubble for TWO beings, one that is (or was) flying, how he keeps from his body fluids flying out of every orifice as he hits vacuum (does his bubble also provide pressure?), and how they continue to MOVE after they leave the atmosphere! I mean, they will have leftover momentum/inertia, but if Bane thinks that by flapping, the reptilian bird will still fly, he has NO KNOWLEDGE of Newton's Laws of Physics, particularly the third.
I will admit, as soon as I read this scene, I simultaneously wanted to laugh my a$$ off and throw this book at the wall. I can suspend a lot of belief--I read Star Wars for God's sake!--but this is more than I can handle. There are a million other things seen in the movies that never happen in real life. Laser bolts being dodged, hyperspace, sounds in space...the list is endless. I can handle those. But this? Nuh uh. No way.
Nit Pick Section
1.The character of Johun. I understand why he is there: to contrast with the Sith. However, I found his character bland and really treads that Marty Stu line (i.e. sneaking onto the planet despite orders and being, in one sense, promoted for it). A far more interesting character to have seen would have been Farfalla.
2.Zannah is described as the prerequisite stunningly attractive woman (though this isn't too hard to stomach, as she would need to be in good physical shape anyway).
Dialogue/Sexual Situations/Violence:
Language is Star Wars typical.
Bane mentions that Githany was his lover. Zannah takes her own lover, Kel. They share a bed and a few kisses, but their relations are restricted to that.
Violence is the heavy portion. A reptilian avian rips out the throat of another. Bane goes on killing sprees, as does his young prodigy. One body is cut into pieces. And Karpyshyn doesn't hold back on the gory description.
Overall:
Minus a serious scientific faux pas that made me question all subsequent science related events in this book, this is an amazing novel. It beautifully expands on what began in Path of Destruction and carries it to the next level. Highly recommended for those who enjoyed the first.
probably_bob's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
mysterious
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
The added POVs were well done and helped add some tension and context to the scenes in this book. It’s cool to see some lore about other arts of the dark side, but I wish these with strongholds were a little more exciting to explore.
plasm4_4's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
mysterious
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
vikichann's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
I took a day to gather my thoughts to write this review. I'm going to start off by saying that I absolutely love this story. In the first book the story revolved around Bane, how he enters the dark side and how he destroys the Brotherhood from the 'rule of two' perspective. The second book does tell the story from different perspectives but we mainly read about Zannah. I like the entanglement with her cousin Darrovit and the continuing appearance of the Jedi Master Farfalla and Johun. As a reader I enjoyed each of the pieces connecting in the end as they all join in a battle where the Jedi lose and the Sith escape. This shows the cunning ways of the Sith as they slither their way out of situations.
What I found rather annoying is the naivety of the Jedi. I can understand that they will question the validity of a captive's statement but to completely rule it out is so stupid. Especially when it comes to the dark side which they consider a huge enemy/danger. This narrow mindset comes back at the end of the story when they arrive at the camp in Ambria, see mad-driven Darrovit and assume he is the Sith from the message that they received. They assume the message was from Caleb the healer but the message spoke was written in third person so it already seems weird. Not to mention, shouldn't they be able to feel how weak Darrovit is with the force especially since Zannah is focusing on hiding? The Jedi do not investigate nearly enough before making conclusions.
Another aspect I found interesting are the use of Orbalisks. Maybe It is very Sith of me but the Orbalisks made Bane survive situations he otherwise wouldn't have which makes him weak in my opinion. I can understand it as adapting to the situation but in combat with the Jedi and at the end when he is dying I was questioning how strong he exactly is. Isn't it a sign of weakness to use an alien creature as a catalyst for your dark force energy? It's just me being sceptical. The fact that Zannah in the end does choose to keep him alive says a few things. She does not see him as weak, because the weak deserve to die. Bane still has purpose to her, this she literally said when she claimed he still had much to teach her. She did waver. It was not clear to me if she actually considered turning away from the Dark side or if she only wanted Bane to stay alive. Darrovit did sense a goodness in Zannah but in the end this got him killed so is it save to assume she is consumed by the dark side?
I do want to say that it would be nice to get more deep with the character's so it will have a greater impact when they are in a fight. For Bane and Zannah the story really makes you feel the stakes when they are in combat whereas the Jedi that died, I could care less about so to say. I did not feel much empathy towards them so I missed those intimitate moments on their side.
All and all great story, can't wait to open the third and last of this trilogy!
What I found rather annoying is the naivety of the Jedi. I can understand that they will question the validity of a captive's statement but to completely rule it out is so stupid. Especially when it comes to the dark side which they consider a huge enemy/danger. This narrow mindset comes back at the end of the story when they arrive at the camp in Ambria, see mad-driven Darrovit and assume he is the Sith from the message that they received. They assume the message was from Caleb the healer but the message spoke was written in third person so it already seems weird. Not to mention, shouldn't they be able to feel how weak Darrovit is with the force especially since Zannah is focusing on hiding? The Jedi do not investigate nearly enough before making conclusions.
Another aspect I found interesting are the use of Orbalisks. Maybe It is very Sith of me but the Orbalisks made Bane survive situations he otherwise wouldn't have which makes him weak in my opinion. I can understand it as adapting to the situation but in combat with the Jedi and at the end when he is dying I was questioning how strong he exactly is. Isn't it a sign of weakness to use an alien creature as a catalyst for your dark force energy? It's just me being sceptical. The fact that Zannah in the end does choose to keep him alive says a few things. She does not see him as weak, because the weak deserve to die. Bane still has purpose to her, this she literally said when she claimed he still had much to teach her. She did waver. It was not clear to me if she actually considered turning away from the Dark side or if she only wanted Bane to stay alive. Darrovit did sense a goodness in Zannah but in the end this got him killed so is it save to assume she is consumed by the dark side?
I do want to say that it would be nice to get more deep with the character's so it will have a greater impact when they are in a fight. For Bane and Zannah the story really makes you feel the stakes when they are in combat whereas the Jedi that died, I could care less about so to say. I did not feel much empathy towards them so I missed those intimitate moments on their side.
All and all great story, can't wait to open the third and last of this trilogy!
brim010's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5