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4.0 AVERAGE
4.0 AVERAGE
dark
mysterious
reflective
Plot or Character Driven:
Character
Strong character development:
Complicated
Loveable characters:
Complicated
Diverse cast of characters:
Complicated
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
TLDR with spoilers: I liked the book! I thought the academic approach to magic was clever and I loved the philosophy/classics references. I am very similar to Alice and I felt her story in my bones. I wish more was done with Hell because it felt like some lost potential. I wish more time had been spent with Peter and Alice in the present because their awkward frayed dynamic was really good. Grimes was so well-defined that his destruction felt underwhelming, but I liked Yama and my cheesy ass loved the end.
I loved the academic analytic approach to magic and found it very interesting!! I think anyone who hasn’t read the texts that Kuang leans on to reinforce her work will have a challenging time. It’s not impossible to read this without knowing the philosophers referenced, but I imagine it could be alienating to not recognize the works used as pillars in the story.
I found Alice and Peter very charming, broken as they were, and I actually wish we spent a little more time with them as a unit. Hell started to fall flat for me (more of a setting than a character in sense of activeness, which is not what I expected) and I wished for more of those two. And a little more of Hell.
This book spends a lot of time in the past, and I wish more of that time had been devoted to Alice and Peter in their present predicament.That “going to hell with your coworker that you banged” vibe was magic while it lasted. I thought it clever that Kuang followed her own non-Euclidean system in order to reinforce the world. Did start to lose its charm in the middle, but we pulled up at the last minute there.
Unfortunately I am not immune to Orpheus and Eurydice parallels, so I was charmed by the ending. Again, think I would’ve liked it much more if we got more time with Alice and Peter bumbling around each other. Their bickering over Hell’s geometry in the beginning and the bonding over the Escher trap was strong until it went south. I was underwhelmed by the solution to the Grimes problem though. Maybe it’s just me.
Idk for every thing I liked, there was a caveat. But not enough to think less of the book’s quality.
I loved the academic analytic approach to magic and found it very interesting!! I think anyone who hasn’t read the texts that Kuang leans on to reinforce her work will have a challenging time. It’s not impossible to read this without knowing the philosophers referenced, but I imagine it could be alienating to not recognize the works used as pillars in the story.
I found Alice and Peter very charming, broken as they were, and I actually wish we spent a little more time with them as a unit. Hell started to fall flat for me (more of a setting than a character in sense of activeness, which is not what I expected) and I wished for more of those two. And a little more of Hell.
This book spends a lot of time in the past, and I wish more of that time had been devoted to Alice and Peter in their present predicament.
Idk for every thing I liked, there was a caveat. But not enough to think less of the book’s quality.
adventurous
dark
mysterious
slow-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
Character
Strong character development:
Yes
Loveable characters:
No
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Complicated
2.5
این کتاب به دید هیچکدوم از کتاب های قبلی کوانگ نخونین ، نوشته های قبلی کوانگ یک بالانس بین شخصیت پردازی و پیامی که کوانگ میخواست برسونه بود ولی اینکتاب ۸۰٪ روی پیام بود پلات خوبه ولی خیلی قوی نیست شخصیت پردازی به نظرم ضعیف ترین بین نوشته هاش بود
شاید اگه با دید درست برین سراغ این کتاب لذت ببرین
مثل کتاب بابل این کتاب هم تا ۴۰٪ اولش هیچ اتفاق خاصی نمیافته نویسنده بیشتر روی فلسفه زندگی بعد از مرگ و ماهیت جهنم میپردازه
نه شخصیت پردازی خاصی توی ۴۰٪ دیده میشه نه اتفاقی میافته
برعکس نویسنده یک عالمه سوال توی نیمه اول به وجود میاره و توی نیمه دوم کم کم شروع به جواب داد میکنه
اما باز هم خیلی از سوال ها بی جواب میمونن و کوانگ کامل بهشون نپرداخت
این کتاب به دید ژانر کلاسیک، فلسفه مدرن و مقدار خیلی کمی فانتزی بخونین به دید یک کتاب هیجانی دارک اکادمیا نخونین ناامید میشین
شخصیت پردازی این کتاب مشکل اصلیش بود
شخصیت آلیس به شدت غرغرو بود و الکی به همچی مشکوک بود، هدفی که داشت قابل فهم بود ولی قابل درک نبود برعکس خیلی مصنوعی بود
اهمیتی بهش نمیدادم عمق نداشت
تاحالا هیچ کدوم از کتاب های کوانگ نبودن که از شخصیت اصلی متنفر باشم ولی این کتاب شخصیت اصلی به حدی روی مخ و به درد نخور بود کل ۴۵۰ صفحه عصبی بودم
دلیلی که وارد جهنم شد قانع کننده بود ولی غرغر هایی که میکرد به حدی روی مخ بود که حوصله سربر شد
وقتی شخصیت اصلی روی مخ باشه اصولا به کتاب اهمیت نمیدم و مشکل اصلیم با کتاب همینه
از طرف دیگه پیتر داشتیم که یک شخصیت کامل بود از همون اول با نقشه وارد جهنم میشه و میدونه قصد داره چکار کنه
مثل آلیس خود درگیری نداره
هرچقدر آلیس روی مخ و به درد نخور بود پیتر شخصیت باثبات و خوبی بود
رومنس کتاب زیاد نیست اوایل کمی بینشون تنش هست ولی رفته رفته میره فقط دارن یه مسیر به کمک هم طی میکنن
خود داستان اصلی کتاب که برمیگرده به جهنم دانته از کتاب کمدی الهی خیلی جذاب بود و هرچی داستان جلوتر میرفت بهتر بود
آلیس و پیتر باید از از ۸ طبقه جهنم که هر طبقه مثل یک دربار میمونه عبور کنن و وقتی بتونن عبور کنن خالص میشه و میتونن تناسخ پیدا کن میکنن
اما پردازشش ضعیف بود
جوری که الیس و پیتر وارد جهنم شدن خیلییییی ساده بود و جوری که هر دربار رد میشدن ساده تر بود
کامان اون جهنمه ک داریم دربارش حرف میزنیم نباید یکم سخت تر باشه؟
هیچ موجودی نباید وجود داشته باشه که به اینا حمله کنه؟
خیلی ساده از هر دربار عبور میکردن
درسته چندتا دربار آخر سختتر بود ولی بازهم سطحی بود
کوانگ برعکس بقیه کتابهاش که پیچش و توضیحات ظریفی داشت توی این کتاب هیچ کدوم انجام نداد خیلی همچی ساده گرفت و رد میشد
پلات های کتاب خوب بودن چند پلات پشت سر هم توی نیمه دوم گفته میشه که داستان از یک نواخت بودن در میاره و جذابترش میکنه ولی باز هم مشکل پردازش بود، پلات ها پشت سر هم گفته میشدن و کاملا سریع رد شد ازشون
این کتاب به دید هیچکدوم از کتاب های قبلی کوانگ نخونین ، نوشته های قبلی کوانگ یک بالانس بین شخصیت پردازی و پیامی که کوانگ میخواست برسونه بود ولی اینکتاب ۸۰٪ روی پیام بود پلات خوبه ولی خیلی قوی نیست شخصیت پردازی به نظرم ضعیف ترین بین نوشته هاش بود
شاید اگه با دید درست برین سراغ این کتاب لذت ببرین
مثل کتاب بابل این کتاب هم تا ۴۰٪ اولش هیچ اتفاق خاصی نمیافته نویسنده بیشتر روی فلسفه زندگی بعد از مرگ و ماهیت جهنم میپردازه
نه شخصیت پردازی خاصی توی ۴۰٪ دیده میشه نه اتفاقی میافته
برعکس نویسنده یک عالمه سوال توی نیمه اول به وجود میاره و توی نیمه دوم کم کم شروع به جواب داد میکنه
اما باز هم خیلی از سوال ها بی جواب میمونن و کوانگ کامل بهشون نپرداخت
این کتاب به دید ژانر کلاسیک، فلسفه مدرن و مقدار خیلی کمی فانتزی بخونین به دید یک کتاب هیجانی دارک اکادمیا نخونین ناامید میشین
شخصیت پردازی این کتاب مشکل اصلیش بود
شخصیت آلیس به شدت غرغرو بود و الکی به همچی مشکوک بود، هدفی که داشت قابل فهم بود ولی قابل درک نبود برعکس خیلی مصنوعی بود
اهمیتی بهش نمیدادم عمق نداشت
تاحالا هیچ کدوم از کتاب های کوانگ نبودن که از شخصیت اصلی متنفر باشم ولی این کتاب شخصیت اصلی به حدی روی مخ و به درد نخور بود کل ۴۵۰ صفحه عصبی بودم
دلیلی که وارد جهنم شد قانع کننده بود ولی غرغر هایی که میکرد به حدی روی مخ بود که حوصله سربر شد
وقتی شخصیت اصلی روی مخ باشه اصولا به کتاب اهمیت نمیدم و مشکل اصلیم با کتاب همینه
از طرف دیگه پیتر داشتیم که یک شخصیت کامل بود از همون اول با نقشه وارد جهنم میشه و میدونه قصد داره چکار کنه
مثل آلیس خود درگیری نداره
هرچقدر آلیس روی مخ و به درد نخور بود پیتر شخصیت باثبات و خوبی بود
رومنس کتاب زیاد نیست اوایل کمی بینشون تنش هست ولی رفته رفته میره فقط دارن یه مسیر به کمک هم طی میکنن
خود داستان اصلی کتاب که برمیگرده به جهنم دانته از کتاب کمدی الهی خیلی جذاب بود و هرچی داستان جلوتر میرفت بهتر بود
آلیس و پیتر باید از از ۸ طبقه جهنم که هر طبقه مثل یک دربار میمونه عبور کنن و وقتی بتونن عبور کنن خالص میشه و میتونن تناسخ پیدا کن میکنن
اما پردازشش ضعیف بود
جوری که الیس و پیتر وارد جهنم شدن خیلییییی ساده بود و جوری که هر دربار رد میشدن ساده تر بود
کامان اون جهنمه ک داریم دربارش حرف میزنیم نباید یکم سخت تر باشه؟
هیچ موجودی نباید وجود داشته باشه که به اینا حمله کنه؟
خیلی ساده از هر دربار عبور میکردن
درسته چندتا دربار آخر سختتر بود ولی بازهم سطحی بود
کوانگ برعکس بقیه کتابهاش که پیچش و توضیحات ظریفی داشت توی این کتاب هیچ کدوم انجام نداد خیلی همچی ساده گرفت و رد میشد
پلات های کتاب خوب بودن چند پلات پشت سر هم توی نیمه دوم گفته میشه که داستان از یک نواخت بودن در میاره و جذابترش میکنه ولی باز هم مشکل پردازش بود، پلات ها پشت سر هم گفته میشدن و کاملا سریع رد شد ازشون
adventurous
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
Character
Strong character development:
Yes
Loveable characters:
Yes
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
I really enjoyed this! Hell as a University fuck yeah. Alice's character growth was 10/10, and I loved Peter and Elspeth. This was very much just a fantasy going-on-a-quest book which is generally my favorite kind of fantasy. I didn't think this was too heavy-hitting or lifechanging which is why it's not a 5 star book, but as usual, I love Kuang's prose and writing style. If I had to match this book with a song, it would be First Light by Hozier.
adventurous
dark
emotional
funny
mysterious
reflective
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
A mix
Strong character development:
Yes
Loveable characters:
Yes
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
A lot of Kuang's works and characters feed very directly from her own life and personality, but she takes this very directly with the story's emotional arc revolving around academia - which can seem a little low stakes.
The writing style is engaging and funny at times like any of Kuang's works, which I'm always a fan of anyway.
Think the main drawbacks are the antagonists (not including her professor) who aren't fully fleshed out.
Kuang's depiction of hell and it's magic style are very inventive - although it does start to feel a bit one note towards the end
The writing style is engaging and funny at times like any of Kuang's works, which I'm always a fan of anyway.
Think the main drawbacks are the antagonists (not including her professor) who aren't fully fleshed out.
Kuang's depiction of hell and it's magic style are very inventive - although it does start to feel a bit one note towards the end
(Disclaimer: I received this book from the publisher. This has not impacted my review which is unbiased and honest.)
Let me first say, I don't think I'll ever be able to write a cohesive book review of Katabasis for my full thoughts. Like most books, my feelings about this book are a product of the books I read before this, my appreciation for Kuang books in the past, and my own feelings on academia in general. As a former academic, reading Katabasis reminded me of one of the reasons I left academia. Not only is there this distance that can be felt between academia and the very real people it impacts - see Babel for those feelings - in Katabasis we see the corruption of power, the use of authority, and the ways in which academia does not protect those it says to teach.
Not only does it actively cover up and remain complicit in actions of individuals, departments, and oftentimes institutions as a whole, but it does not even protect its own students. Academia is not a position of wealth. It publicly does not treat graduate students well and as someone who was thinking about academia, the job security, and the 'security' within the field, I know this all too well. So in many ways, Katabasis is a direct response to that. Katabasis takes these experiences and grounds them not in classrooms, but in Hell. Aren't they the same anyway? It examines what happens when we are pushed beyond our breaking point. What happens when our genuine passion for something is not enough anymore to be a 'good' student or scholar? Academia, and like many other cerebral fields or even the arts, can force people to push themselves to the brink, to accept the idea that suffering produces greatness. Except what they don't often acknowledge is the cost of this greatness. And that's where Katabasis begins. It begins at the moment where the cost of the pursuit of greatness has not only impacted Alice, but also her advisor.
Katabasis as a plotline, comes into its swing later in the book when the threads, and the tension, finally come to a head. I would argue that the momentum also picks up when most of the theoretical foundation is laid. Until then, I can see how it can be plodding or difficult to get through. You have to enjoy theory, enjoy picking apart an idea, and twisting it around in your mind at the same time as Alice - and Peter - because that's what largely makes up their character. At times, it can lean a bit heavy handed on the academia, and if you don't want to have this feeling of being back in the theory trenches, this might not be for you. I will say that towards the end as the theory patters off, I was frustrated with a few theories that I wish had a more resounding conclusion considering the weight and depth they were given in the beginning.
But at its core, Katabasis is a book about the journey of the self. In many ways, our characters have to be broken down to be built back up again. I think that's true for Alice who we all think begins in this state. She's just decided she has to go down to Hell to save her advisor, how much lower can we go? But you just wait and see. For Alice to even think about returning upwards, she'll have to figure out what she's actually willing to sacrifice.
Let me first say, I don't think I'll ever be able to write a cohesive book review of Katabasis for my full thoughts. Like most books, my feelings about this book are a product of the books I read before this, my appreciation for Kuang books in the past, and my own feelings on academia in general. As a former academic, reading Katabasis reminded me of one of the reasons I left academia. Not only is there this distance that can be felt between academia and the very real people it impacts - see Babel for those feelings - in Katabasis we see the corruption of power, the use of authority, and the ways in which academia does not protect those it says to teach.
Not only does it actively cover up and remain complicit in actions of individuals, departments, and oftentimes institutions as a whole, but it does not even protect its own students. Academia is not a position of wealth. It publicly does not treat graduate students well and as someone who was thinking about academia, the job security, and the 'security' within the field, I know this all too well. So in many ways, Katabasis is a direct response to that. Katabasis takes these experiences and grounds them not in classrooms, but in Hell. Aren't they the same anyway? It examines what happens when we are pushed beyond our breaking point. What happens when our genuine passion for something is not enough anymore to be a 'good' student or scholar? Academia, and like many other cerebral fields or even the arts, can force people to push themselves to the brink, to accept the idea that suffering produces greatness. Except what they don't often acknowledge is the cost of this greatness. And that's where Katabasis begins. It begins at the moment where the cost of the pursuit of greatness has not only impacted Alice, but also her advisor.
Katabasis as a plotline, comes into its swing later in the book when the threads, and the tension, finally come to a head. I would argue that the momentum also picks up when most of the theoretical foundation is laid. Until then, I can see how it can be plodding or difficult to get through. You have to enjoy theory, enjoy picking apart an idea, and twisting it around in your mind at the same time as Alice - and Peter - because that's what largely makes up their character. At times, it can lean a bit heavy handed on the academia, and if you don't want to have this feeling of being back in the theory trenches, this might not be for you. I will say that towards the end as the theory patters off, I was frustrated with a few theories that I wish had a more resounding conclusion considering the weight and depth they were given in the beginning.
But at its core, Katabasis is a book about the journey of the self. In many ways, our characters have to be broken down to be built back up again. I think that's true for Alice who we all think begins in this state. She's just decided she has to go down to Hell to save her advisor, how much lower can we go? But you just wait and see. For Alice to even think about returning upwards, she'll have to figure out what she's actually willing to sacrifice.
adventurous
emotional
tense
medium-paced
hm.
i appreciated peter and alice‘s complexity. but other than that… i don’t know. this book carried none of the usual stuff i love about r.f. kuangs writing. the paradox stuff was interesting, but i still feel like there was a lot of potential here that ultimately wasn’t executed.
towards the end it felt a little fillery to me. i liked the end and espeth as a character, but oh well. maybe i would have had more of a connection if i actually could relate to all of that academic stuff in a way? but i in fact don’t so…
also i just wanna mention what really bothered me, the „like looking at the sun“ man not only was this written several times but literally in almost the exact same fashion as june described athena in yellowface.
the characters were a tiny bit unlikable? but also very understandable. i found r.f. kuang‘s approach to hell interesting, and also the lord of the underworld.
i suppose that’s about all i can say about this book. sadge all my fav authors are disappointing me this year
i appreciated peter and alice‘s complexity. but other than that… i don’t know. this book carried none of the usual stuff i love about r.f. kuangs writing. the paradox stuff was interesting, but i still feel like there was a lot of potential here that ultimately wasn’t executed.
towards the end it felt a little fillery to me. i liked the end and espeth as a character, but oh well. maybe i would have had more of a connection if i actually could relate to all of that academic stuff in a way? but i in fact don’t so…
also i just wanna mention what really bothered me, the „like looking at the sun“ man not only was this written several times but literally in almost the exact same fashion as june described athena in yellowface.
the characters were a tiny bit unlikable? but also very understandable. i found r.f. kuang‘s approach to hell interesting, and also the lord of the underworld.
i suppose that’s about all i can say about this book. sadge all my fav authors are disappointing me this year
adventurous
tense
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
A mix
Strong character development:
Yes
Loveable characters:
Yes
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
Look. If you’re the everyday reader who has not known the white walled prison of the academy, this might feel esoteric and incredibly low stakes. You might think, “This is fun and certain tongue in cheek but to what ends?” I think that’s certainly fair. I think asking readers to familiarize themselves with premodern text and theory insults yourself as a writer and the intelligence of your readers (R. F. Kuang’s writing stands on its own. You don’t need to know Dante’s ins and outs to get what you need from this story.)
(Un)luckily for me, I have known the advisor who I would go to Hell for even if he deserves to be there. I even know the theory and texts she’s playing with. The stakes are so low because academia is agreed upon silliness. I found this so much fun even if there was far too much telling and not enough showing.
(Un)luckily for me, I have known the advisor who I would go to Hell for even if he deserves to be there. I even know the theory and texts she’s playing with. The stakes are so low because academia is agreed upon silliness. I found this so much fun even if there was far too much telling and not enough showing.
dark
emotional
reflective
medium-paced
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
Katabasis is exactly as advertised based on its comp titles—Dante’s Inferno meets Piranesi—but its execution doesn’t quite live up to either of those works for me. Alice and Peter weren’t immediately compelling protagonists, but as their characters were explored a bit more, they became more sympathetic and layered. Still, I wanted more interaction between these characters in the present part of the narrative. The real standout character for me, though, was Professor Grimes. His motivations and actions were consistently clear and well-developed throughout the novel, and he is such a great example of an unlikable but utterly compelling character.
Kuang’s conception of hell starts with a lot of promise, and it was fun to trace where she chose to stay with and diverge from Dante. As the journey progressed, though, the setting mostly loses focus, and hell becomes increasingly bleak and forgettable. The plot itself was good; the subject matter and themes were presented very clearly and there were moments that elicited strong tension, elation, and despair while I was reading. The pacing was a little strange, however, as a good deal of the book’s important moments occur in flashbacks that interrupt the action. While these moments provide crucial context to characters’ actions, it feels like there could have been another way to structure things that didn’t throw off the story’s momentum so much.
Katabasis feels like it was written like an academic paper. It presents a can’t-miss-it thesis, which the story feels compelled to reiterate after every important plot moment. Every decision in the present narrative is justified with supporting evidence in the form of a lengthy infodump or flashback. While this makes for an intellectual and thought-provoking book, it doesn’t really create a wholly entertaining narrative.
Thank you to NetGalley and Harper Voyager for an ARC of this book.
Kuang’s conception of hell starts with a lot of promise, and it was fun to trace where she chose to stay with and diverge from Dante. As the journey progressed, though, the setting mostly loses focus, and hell becomes increasingly bleak and forgettable. The plot itself was good; the subject matter and themes were presented very clearly and there were moments that elicited strong tension, elation, and despair while I was reading. The pacing was a little strange, however, as a good deal of the book’s important moments occur in flashbacks that interrupt the action. While these moments provide crucial context to characters’ actions, it feels like there could have been another way to structure things that didn’t throw off the story’s momentum so much.
Katabasis feels like it was written like an academic paper. It presents a can’t-miss-it thesis, which the story feels compelled to reiterate after every important plot moment. Every decision in the present narrative is justified with supporting evidence in the form of a lengthy infodump or flashback. While this makes for an intellectual and thought-provoking book, it doesn’t really create a wholly entertaining narrative.
Thank you to NetGalley and Harper Voyager for an ARC of this book.