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4.31 AVERAGE
4.31 AVERAGE
You need to have strong mathematics or computer science foundation to enjoy the entirety of what this book has to offer. For someone like myself with a basic understanding of number theory, it was a slog, and I feel my time would have been better spent reading "What is Mathematics" before tackling GEB.
As a non-mathmetician, I thought the linkages created between consciousness, DNA, language, and non-euclidian mathematics was compelling.
As a non-mathmetician, I thought the linkages created between consciousness, DNA, language, and non-euclidian mathematics was compelling.
There is no doubt in my mind that this is one of the best books I've read in my life!
GEB is an exploration into how intelligence and self awareness might manifest given the right underlying structure. The journey is broken up by wonderful dialogs modeled after musical fugues in which the concepts of the succeeding chapter are introduced. It contains playful use of words and ideas that get the mind churning in unusual ways. Some parts were difficult to get through such as Typographical Number Theory and the formation of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem using TNT. The books covers a range of topics including: formal systems, recursion, self-reference, self-representation, artificial intelligence, molecular biology, language, computer systems and Zen. It contains influences from many personalities including: Bach, Turing, Godel, Babbage, Escher and many others.
challenging
informative
reflective
slow-paced
Objectively speaking, I enjoyed and understood a large part of the book. But somehow when I think of it, I can only recall the tortuous TNT segments. Yikes.
I think the book would have greatly benefited by moving the AI and DNA chapters closer to the beginning. They contain the crux of Hofstadter's thesis - that a system is founded on some immutable laws (axioms, DNA) and increasing layers of complexity (theorems, neurons) can sometimes give rise to meaning not originally conceived by the authors (intelligence or consciousness).
I confess that the latter parts of TNT, especially around arithmoquinification, completely went over my head. I've had a wonderful confluence of experiences that have kept my interest in finishing this going though:
- reading [b:The Selfish Gene|61535|The Selfish Gene|Richard Dawkins|https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1366758096s/61535.jpg|1746717] (talking about genetics and cell processes, the fundamental concept of replicators)
- reading [b:At the Existentialist Café: Freedom, Being, and Apricot Cocktails|25658482|At the Existentialist Café Freedom, Being, and Apricot Cocktails|Sarah Bakewell|https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1456742264s/25658482.jpg|45480464] (understanding the subject-object, use-mention relationship)
- reading [b:Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality|10016013|Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality|Eliezer Yudkowsky|https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1293582551s/10016013.jpg|14911331] (which references GEB, mentions Quine, "this is not a pipe", "the map is not the territory" and so many other wonderful rational theories and ideas)
- talking to a friend who'd recently read a book on John Cage and Zen
The concepts mentioned in GEB are reflected in many places, so I'd say it was worth the read for that meta-understanding. But... it was a tortuous experience for me, because (I admit) beyond a level of complexity in the explanation and use of TNT and Gödel's theorem, I got too mentally lazy to follow. So if you're planning to pick this tome up, you'll maybe come out the other end better for it, but be prepared for the mental gymnastics, which much of the time can leave you feeling hollow.
I think the book would have greatly benefited by moving the AI and DNA chapters closer to the beginning. They contain the crux of Hofstadter's thesis - that a system is founded on some immutable laws (axioms, DNA) and increasing layers of complexity (theorems, neurons) can sometimes give rise to meaning not originally conceived by the authors (intelligence or consciousness).
I confess that the latter parts of TNT, especially around arithmoquinification, completely went over my head. I've had a wonderful confluence of experiences that have kept my interest in finishing this going though:
- reading [b:The Selfish Gene|61535|The Selfish Gene|Richard Dawkins|https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1366758096s/61535.jpg|1746717] (talking about genetics and cell processes, the fundamental concept of replicators)
- reading [b:At the Existentialist Café: Freedom, Being, and Apricot Cocktails|25658482|At the Existentialist Café Freedom, Being, and Apricot Cocktails|Sarah Bakewell|https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1456742264s/25658482.jpg|45480464] (understanding the subject-object, use-mention relationship)
- reading [b:Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality|10016013|Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality|Eliezer Yudkowsky|https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1293582551s/10016013.jpg|14911331] (which references GEB, mentions Quine, "this is not a pipe", "the map is not the territory" and so many other wonderful rational theories and ideas)
- talking to a friend who'd recently read a book on John Cage and Zen
The concepts mentioned in GEB are reflected in many places, so I'd say it was worth the read for that meta-understanding. But... it was a tortuous experience for me, because (I admit) beyond a level of complexity in the explanation and use of TNT and Gödel's theorem, I got too mentally lazy to follow. So if you're planning to pick this tome up, you'll maybe come out the other end better for it, but be prepared for the mental gymnastics, which much of the time can leave you feeling hollow.
I dislike math. Enough it would seem to make this book more frustrating than enjoyable.
I dont know if math, CS, AI people will find this as interesting as I did, or if its too obvious or vague bullshit for them. I dont work in any of these fields so it was a very interesting read. There are a couple of levels on which I think this book can be appreciated. There is the core idea in which the author tries to propose a model for things like intelligence and consciousness. In order to do this, he goes through a lot of concepts which get slowly (sometimes vaguely) connected. The dialogues between achilles and tortoise are very interesting (they do get a bit old by the end) and the author had me gripped just by that. Some parts were a bit hard to get around, like the part where he kind of goes about proving godel's theorem.
All in all, a great book. One of the best that I have read.
All in all, a great book. One of the best that I have read.
I'm not sure if my computer science background helped or hindered my enjoyment of this book. Maybe someone that knows less about the math of making a computer and computer programs would've been more able to enjoy the book as a prosaic piece but it felt quite like a manual for me that I felt obliged to absorb. Hofstadter truly has a special mind for his ability to draw connection though. He is a master of the "everything is connected and I can prove it" approach to literature and science. Philosophical questions of cognition and computation left me stupefied while I read it.