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remlezar's review against another edition
5.0
Permutation City, more than any other book in recent memory, blew my mind. It explores territory that is as horrifying as it is interesting. At its core, the novel is about blurring the line that defines what it is to be human, or at least, what it is to be alive. If it was possible to create an exact clone of a person, complete with the original person’s feelings, memories, thoughts, and fears, is that clone a human? Most people would respond in the affirmative to this question, I think. After all, a perfect clone is a flesh and blood thing, and it can interact with other humans just like anyone else. If you did not know the clone was a clone, it would be impossible to discern the difference between the clone and anyone else.
But what if that clone was a perfect digital copy of a person? It still has all of the original’s thoughts, feelings, hopes, and dreams, but it’s missing a traditional body. Does that matter? Isn’t our mind what makes us human? I don’t think anyone would argue that getting a prosthetic leg makes someone less human, so why would it be any different if the entire body was gone?
If there is a digital copy of a person, what does it mean to be the “original?” The copy still has all of the original’s memories, and isn’t that what makes the original the original? Is the idea of an “original” in this scenario even worth considering? Or is this more like the splitting of a person – they both have a shared life before the copy, but now they are each free to live completely separate lives with entirely unique experiences.
What if you could make any number of copies of that simulated person? Does each still have the same value as the flesh and blood person the copies are based on? For the digital copies themselves, they would almost surely believe their life has value. Isn’t the ability to recognize oneself in that way worth something? Isn’t it worth everything?
Does it matter that this hypothetical person is simulated? Why should a simulated life be any less meaningful than a “real” life? If you were to somehow discover that the life you’ve been leading was a simulation, you would very likely hold onto the idea that your simulated life had value. Or maybe you would lose your mind, whatever that might mean in that context.
What if you could take these scanned, simulated people and put them into a simulated world together? This world would undoubtedly be very different than the one we know, but, to those inside, is it any less real? And if it is real to the people (if we’re calling them people) inside the simulation, how can anyone outside of it claim that it isn’t?
What if this simulated world could last for thousands, millions, or even billions of years? The people inside could outlive their flesh and blood counterparts. Are they living a kind of immortal life? In a scenario where they do outlive their flesh and blood counterparts, are humans extinct? Or are the people in the simulation still human?
What does it mean to be alive? What does it mean to be human?
***
Permutation City isn’t perfect. There are significant narrative issues that fester throughout the novel, and most of the characters didn’t do much for me. The “Dust Theory” idea presented about halfway through was so mindbogglingly confusing that I had break to do some outside research, which I am glad I did. But the incredibly powerful ideas and questions that this book raised and explored are more than enough to land it on my “favorite books I read this year” list. After letting it digest for a while, It might even end up on my list of “favorite books I’ve ever read," for what that’s worth.
But what if that clone was a perfect digital copy of a person? It still has all of the original’s thoughts, feelings, hopes, and dreams, but it’s missing a traditional body. Does that matter? Isn’t our mind what makes us human? I don’t think anyone would argue that getting a prosthetic leg makes someone less human, so why would it be any different if the entire body was gone?
If there is a digital copy of a person, what does it mean to be the “original?” The copy still has all of the original’s memories, and isn’t that what makes the original the original? Is the idea of an “original” in this scenario even worth considering? Or is this more like the splitting of a person – they both have a shared life before the copy, but now they are each free to live completely separate lives with entirely unique experiences.
What if you could make any number of copies of that simulated person? Does each still have the same value as the flesh and blood person the copies are based on? For the digital copies themselves, they would almost surely believe their life has value. Isn’t the ability to recognize oneself in that way worth something? Isn’t it worth everything?
Does it matter that this hypothetical person is simulated? Why should a simulated life be any less meaningful than a “real” life? If you were to somehow discover that the life you’ve been leading was a simulation, you would very likely hold onto the idea that your simulated life had value. Or maybe you would lose your mind, whatever that might mean in that context.
What if you could take these scanned, simulated people and put them into a simulated world together? This world would undoubtedly be very different than the one we know, but, to those inside, is it any less real? And if it is real to the people (if we’re calling them people) inside the simulation, how can anyone outside of it claim that it isn’t?
What if this simulated world could last for thousands, millions, or even billions of years? The people inside could outlive their flesh and blood counterparts. Are they living a kind of immortal life? In a scenario where they do outlive their flesh and blood counterparts, are humans extinct? Or are the people in the simulation still human?
What does it mean to be alive? What does it mean to be human?
***
Permutation City isn’t perfect. There are significant narrative issues that fester throughout the novel, and most of the characters didn’t do much for me. The “Dust Theory” idea presented about halfway through was so mindbogglingly confusing that I had break to do some outside research, which I am glad I did. But the incredibly powerful ideas and questions that this book raised and explored are more than enough to land it on my “favorite books I read this year” list. After letting it digest for a while, It might even end up on my list of “favorite books I’ve ever read," for what that’s worth.
rocketiza's review against another edition
4.0
One of the more successful books in making me question reality. I kept reaching parts that I thought I wasn't getting it, but made sense about half a hour later after I put the book down and through about it.
ninj's review against another edition
5.0
Wow. Mid 21st century, deep into simulation territory, scans of people that can be run in a simulated environment. Seen both from the outside, and from the inside, subjectively.
It's so ... evocative.
A lot of philosophical musings, which reminded me of Lady of Mazes.
And times when characters are on the verge of ... radical insights on consciousness and self and reality, and you as the reader feel like you're right there, also on the verge of radical insights.
It's so ... evocative.
A lot of philosophical musings, which reminded me of Lady of Mazes.
And times when characters are on the verge of ... radical insights on consciousness and self and reality, and you as the reader feel like you're right there, also on the verge of radical insights.
breenmachine's review against another edition
5.0
Epic book. My mind is still bending around the concepts it creates, I will probably read it again to both bathe in it and understand more fully. Definitely a 5 star. Read it!
doylio's review against another edition
challenging
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
tuftymctavish's review against another edition
challenging
mysterious
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
3.0
Initially captivated with the ‘Life’ setup and computers aspect, I struggled a lot with the VR side of things, but that is the norm for me if I’m honest. It’s very high concept and eventually I desynchronised towards the end.
dartdart's review against another edition
challenging
hopeful
reflective
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
4.5
wilbible's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
mysterious
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
4.0
aerofinity's review against another edition
5.0
If you like your information theory with a side of wonder - look no further! The scope and ambition of this book is breathtaking - bordering on the insane. Insanely great that is. 10/10 recommend.
Ps incredibly prophetic. I can’t believe this book was written in 1994 and already anticipated cloud computing and the market for buying and selling compute. Pretty sure the author had access to a Time Machine or potentially an internally coherent simulation he could put on fast forward.
Ps incredibly prophetic. I can’t believe this book was written in 1994 and already anticipated cloud computing and the market for buying and selling compute. Pretty sure the author had access to a Time Machine or potentially an internally coherent simulation he could put on fast forward.