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kaiju__kitten's review against another edition
5.0
Loved learning more about gay history, as a lesbian, and I think this book should be on any historians shelf.
lovmelovmycats's review against another edition
5.0
Excellent book. I found several other titles in the notes that I wanna read.
drizzlybear's review
challenging
informative
slow-paced
3.75
i'm not generally a fan of non-fiction but knowing your history is important.
well-researched and detailed analysis of an oft-forgotten era in history that, if berube's compelling argument is to be believed, has shaped much of what the queer community possesses today.
well-researched and detailed analysis of an oft-forgotten era in history that, if berube's compelling argument is to be believed, has shaped much of what the queer community possesses today.
emmeline's review against another edition
challenging
emotional
informative
I found this to be a great resource for learning about a specific element of queer history. I don’t have a star rating for this since I don’t think it applies.
Coming Out Under Fire is written similarly to a history textbook in the way information is provided. I liked the stories and personal statements from gay and lesbian veterans the best. I wish there were more of these or that those sections were longer. I also liked that Berube discussed intersectionality in terms of racism and homophobia in the military. I again wish these segments were longer and discussed in more detail as they tended to be along the lines of “and also the military was racist as well as homophobic.” I feel that overall this is a fantastic book and a good starting point for better understanding of the history of homophobic policies in the US military.
Just a small final note the ebook edition is not formatted well. Early on the footnote text is placed in the middle of a random paragraph on the next page which caused some confusion. Also the way the photos and descriptions were placed often put them in the middle of a paragraph so you have to scroll through pages of photos and unrelated text to get back to the topic at hand. Finally the ebook I had didn’t count the page numbers correctly, this is a small thing and easy to ignore but it counted the pages in the 6,000 range instead of 300 which freaked me out a little. Overall good book but a physical copy would probably be more enjoyable and easier to read.
Coming Out Under Fire is written similarly to a history textbook in the way information is provided. I liked the stories and personal statements from gay and lesbian veterans the best. I wish there were more of these or that those sections were longer. I also liked that Berube discussed intersectionality in terms of racism and homophobia in the military. I again wish these segments were longer and discussed in more detail as they tended to be along the lines of “and also the military was racist as well as homophobic.” I feel that overall this is a fantastic book and a good starting point for better understanding of the history of homophobic policies in the US military.
Just a small final note the ebook edition is not formatted well. Early on the footnote text is placed in the middle of a random paragraph on the next page which caused some confusion. Also the way the photos and descriptions were placed often put them in the middle of a paragraph so you have to scroll through pages of photos and unrelated text to get back to the topic at hand. Finally the ebook I had didn’t count the page numbers correctly, this is a small thing and easy to ignore but it counted the pages in the 6,000 range instead of 300 which freaked me out a little. Overall good book but a physical copy would probably be more enjoyable and easier to read.
thesoftestcowboy's review against another edition
informative
5.0
Content Warnings
Moderate: Biphobia, Emotional abuse, Grief, Homophobia, Physical abuse, and Sexism
claudia_is_reading's review against another edition
5.0
Wow! This was such an interesting read. By moments heartbreaking, most of the time rage-inducing, but always fascinating.
The author highlights the influence that the military had in the treatment of queer people by EEUU's society. Incredibly well-documented, filled with quotes that brought the protagonists' voices to the fore, this is such a meaningful document...
Listening to this book, to all those experiences, to all that real people who lived through them makes you really understand what was going on.
If you are interested in queer history, you simply cannot not to read this book.
The author highlights the influence that the military had in the treatment of queer people by EEUU's society. Incredibly well-documented, filled with quotes that brought the protagonists' voices to the fore, this is such a meaningful document...
Listening to this book, to all those experiences, to all that real people who lived through them makes you really understand what was going on.
If you are interested in queer history, you simply cannot not to read this book.
justabean_reads's review against another edition
challenging
informative
medium-paced
4.5
2015 Review:
It would be interesting to read equivalent books for other countries during the same period, as this only covered the USA, but it did seem to cover it very well. I was impressed at what a wide variety of experiences people had, from being persecuted and kicked out to being more or less out and no one caring, depending on the time, place and individuals involved. I wish there had been more about lesbians, but there were at least somewhat included. I liked how many interviews and letters the author quoted. Hopefully they're all around for other people to use.
Until the last chapter, I didn't realise that this book was twenty five years old, and was probably something of a polemic against oppression in the armed forces. I kept waiting for his history to get up to DADT, but it stopped just shy of that. Well written over all, in any case, though someone should have taken the word "ironically" away from him.
2020 Review:
Just as good on a reread. I'm basically living this title in fandom right now, so wanted to brush up, but was pleased with how much of it I remembered and was using anyway. What I had forgotten about was a lot of the oral histories and personal stories, which I only remembered snatches of. There are so many powerful moments of survival and resistance, as well as in later chapters some horrifying bullshit.
The book is thirty years old now, but still stands up really well in terms of explaining the history of the medicalisation of homosexuality, the evolution of military policy, and where individuals fell in with that. I really like how much attention it pays to the diversity of responses within the queer community, and how much variation there was in how people saw themselves and their sexuality. I really liked how accepting and affirming the author was of genderfluidity and gender play. There's a reasonable amount of discussion of black servicemen, and about the black press' gay rights advocacy.
If there's one thing that dates the book a little bit, it's the language around homosexuality, which is somewhat caught in the late 1980s. Not that offensive language is used, but you can really see reading that back to back with Indecent Advances how the terminology we use for ourselves has shifted as the years go by.
It would be interesting to read equivalent books for other countries during the same period, as this only covered the USA, but it did seem to cover it very well. I was impressed at what a wide variety of experiences people had, from being persecuted and kicked out to being more or less out and no one caring, depending on the time, place and individuals involved. I wish there had been more about lesbians, but there were at least somewhat included. I liked how many interviews and letters the author quoted. Hopefully they're all around for other people to use.
Until the last chapter, I didn't realise that this book was twenty five years old, and was probably something of a polemic against oppression in the armed forces. I kept waiting for his history to get up to DADT, but it stopped just shy of that. Well written over all, in any case, though someone should have taken the word "ironically" away from him.
2020 Review:
Just as good on a reread. I'm basically living this title in fandom right now, so wanted to brush up, but was pleased with how much of it I remembered and was using anyway. What I had forgotten about was a lot of the oral histories and personal stories, which I only remembered snatches of. There are so many powerful moments of survival and resistance, as well as in later chapters some horrifying bullshit.
The book is thirty years old now, but still stands up really well in terms of explaining the history of the medicalisation of homosexuality, the evolution of military policy, and where individuals fell in with that. I really like how much attention it pays to the diversity of responses within the queer community, and how much variation there was in how people saw themselves and their sexuality. I really liked how accepting and affirming the author was of genderfluidity and gender play. There's a reasonable amount of discussion of black servicemen, and about the black press' gay rights advocacy.
If there's one thing that dates the book a little bit, it's the language around homosexuality, which is somewhat caught in the late 1980s. Not that offensive language is used, but you can really see reading that back to back with Indecent Advances how the terminology we use for ourselves has shifted as the years go by.
librarianonparade's review against another edition
4.0
As Allan Berube writes at the close of this book, "the generation of gay men and women who served in World War II grew into adulthood fighting one war for their country and another to protect themselves from their government's escalating mobilization against them." Whilst this book was first published 25 years ago, it is just as relevant and important now as it was then. Things may be improving, but not enough and not fast enough. It is important that the service and sacrifices of these men and women be recognised - gay men and women served their country with honour and distinction during World War II, proved themselves as soldiers, sailors and patriots, and were met in most cases with hostility, persecution, prejudice and injustice.
This is a fascinating and often heart-rending exploration of both the experiences of the men and women themselves, and the differing approaches the military took during the course of the war in handling its 'homosexual problem'. It was during World War II that the concept of the 'homosexual' as an individual, a sexual identity as opposed simply to a sexual act, first took root - and was enough on its own for that individual to be discharged from the service, deemed a 'sexual psychopath'. Homosexuality was deemed incompatible with military service - the old stereotypes of gay men as effeminate, weak, flighty, hysterical, physically incapable doing their part to reinforce this belief.
One did not even need to be caught in the act or to have committed any homosexual acts at all - mere 'tendencies' were enough. Some were lucky enough (or valuable enough to the military in wartime) to be deemed 'reclaimable' and were absorbed back into the military, often after a period of incarceration or hospitalization. Others were dishonourably discharged from the service and faced the loss of all benefits after the war. Others hid their identity and tried to blend in, denying their sexuality to avoid persecution.
It is one of the sad ironies of gay wartime history that at a time when America was fighting a war supposedly for freedom, against racism, intolerance and persecution, it was stripping gay servicemen and women of all rights, interrogating, humiliating and brutalising them, holding them in 'queer stockades', denying their service and sacrifice. The treatment meted out to some of these men and women was truly abhorrent - and whilst the US government has apologised to the Japanese-American community for their treatment during World War II, it is yet to make any such gesture to the many thousands of gay men and women who received treatment equally as appalling, both during World War II and afterwards.
I found this an excellent book, and as I said, an important one. Pick up any book of World War II - how many even mention the service of gay men and women beyond a sentence at most? The contribution gay men and women have made throughout history is too often ignored or sidelined as a niche category of historical studies.
This is a fascinating and often heart-rending exploration of both the experiences of the men and women themselves, and the differing approaches the military took during the course of the war in handling its 'homosexual problem'. It was during World War II that the concept of the 'homosexual' as an individual, a sexual identity as opposed simply to a sexual act, first took root - and was enough on its own for that individual to be discharged from the service, deemed a 'sexual psychopath'. Homosexuality was deemed incompatible with military service - the old stereotypes of gay men as effeminate, weak, flighty, hysterical, physically incapable doing their part to reinforce this belief.
One did not even need to be caught in the act or to have committed any homosexual acts at all - mere 'tendencies' were enough. Some were lucky enough (or valuable enough to the military in wartime) to be deemed 'reclaimable' and were absorbed back into the military, often after a period of incarceration or hospitalization. Others were dishonourably discharged from the service and faced the loss of all benefits after the war. Others hid their identity and tried to blend in, denying their sexuality to avoid persecution.
It is one of the sad ironies of gay wartime history that at a time when America was fighting a war supposedly for freedom, against racism, intolerance and persecution, it was stripping gay servicemen and women of all rights, interrogating, humiliating and brutalising them, holding them in 'queer stockades', denying their service and sacrifice. The treatment meted out to some of these men and women was truly abhorrent - and whilst the US government has apologised to the Japanese-American community for their treatment during World War II, it is yet to make any such gesture to the many thousands of gay men and women who received treatment equally as appalling, both during World War II and afterwards.
I found this an excellent book, and as I said, an important one. Pick up any book of World War II - how many even mention the service of gay men and women beyond a sentence at most? The contribution gay men and women have made throughout history is too often ignored or sidelined as a niche category of historical studies.
argdov's review
5.0
Very well written and researched and fairly enlightening to how the military developed and enforced its anti-gay policies. I admire the amount of work this must have taken. Its also a lot less “academic” than the other gay history book Ive read was- Gay New York- and was easy to follow and understand.
You can tell this was originally written even before Dont Ask Dont Tell was implemented, but thats less a criticism and more an observation. Overall an important and worthwhile read if you are trying to learn more gay history
You can tell this was originally written even before Dont Ask Dont Tell was implemented, but thats less a criticism and more an observation. Overall an important and worthwhile read if you are trying to learn more gay history