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177 reviews for:
God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships
Matthew Vines
4.15 AVERAGE
177 reviews for:
God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships
Matthew Vines
4.15 AVERAGE
challenging
fast-paced
I did not like this book. Not because I disagree with the premise. I'm an affirming Christian. I think the author's perspective is very narrow. Also, he repeatedly includes transgender folx, but doesn't actually discuss the biblical case for being transgender. Gender and sexuality are not the same thing. Though I didn't enjoy the book, I think/hope it will be a useful resource for beginning the conversation on LGBTQ+ inclusion in my church. I understand that I am not the intended audience of this book. I am not a conservative evangelical Christian. I am not a white cisgender male. These identities inform the content of this book a great deal.
emotional
informative
medium-paced
challenging
hopeful
informative
slow-paced
This is a meticulously researched and persuasively written exploration of what the Bible actually says about homosexuality. As someone who holds a high view of God's Word, I appreciate Vines' work in unpacking the cultural context and historical changes in interpretation of the Old and New Testament passages that are used against the LGBTQIA+ community. I wish I had read this book four years ago, when I was coming to terms with my sexuality and how it intersected with my faith.
My biggest (and only) critique is that I don't think it goes far enough. In affirming only monogamous same-sex relationships between gay Christians, and not taking aim at the broader Christian sexual ethic, many members of the LGBTQIA+ community are left behind. This book is about 10 years old now though, so I wonder what Vines' current thoughts are.
My biggest (and only) critique is that I don't think it goes far enough. In affirming only monogamous same-sex relationships between gay Christians, and not taking aim at the broader Christian sexual ethic, many members of the LGBTQIA+ community are left behind. This book is about 10 years old now though, so I wonder what Vines' current thoughts are.
Content Warnings
Moderate: Homophobia
insightful, thought-provoking, and helpful in rethinking commonly used Bible passages and gaining new perspective
Matthew Vines grew up in a conservative evangelical church in Kansas where the belief that being gay was a sin was near unquestioned. As he grew up, Vines realized he was attracted to the same sex. This led Vines to an in-depth study of what the Bible says about gay relationships. The fruit of this study led to a video that went viral a few years back and now to this book. Vines is seeking to do something many see as difficult, if not impossible – to keep his the traditional, evangelical understanding of Scripture but to argue in favor of gay relationships. In other words, if the choice is either be evangelical and think gay relationships are wrong, or embrace gay relationships and move to a more liberal theological position, Vines wants a third option.
Vines book God and the Gay Christian received a good bit of publicity. Even before it came out some evangelical Calvinists got a hold of it and prepared a response e-book for immediate release. I'll review that one below.
Vines argument hinges on a few points. First, he argues that the ancient world had no concept of consensual gay relationships between adults. So he admits that the Bible (specifically the six verses that mention homosexuality) condemn it. But they are not condemning anything like what we have today. Instead, homosexual behavior was seen as a symptom of sexual excess. Many who engaged in it were married men who just wanted more so they sought sex with other men or boys. The idea that two people would commit to a monogamous, lifelong adult relationship was not on their radar.
Second, Vines is arguing for a sort of traditional sexual ethic. He thinks the Bible supports committed monogamous marriage, but he wants to expand it to include gay couples. Thus he agrees with the Bible's condemnation of sexual excess. Vines would agree with the Bible's condemnation of promiscuity.
Third, Vines argues that celibacy in the Bible is always chosen, it is never forced on people. From this, expecting all people who experience attraction to the same sex to be celibate for life is not just unfair, it is outside what scripture says on celibacy. If I recall, Vines does agree that the Bible expects celibacy of all for a time, prior to marriage. But in theory any straight person could marry while all gay people must either choose a fake and loveless marriage with a person of the other gender or celibacy. It is better for the health, spiritual and physical of these people, to allow them to marry same gender people.
Vines book is well-written and challenging to the traditional perspective. I am not sure if he succeeds in building a case for gay marriage from within an evangelical understanding of the Bible. But it is a compelling case worth much thought and good response.
That said, the response e-book that came out when this did is not such a good response...but you'll have to read my review of that book elsewhere.
Vines book God and the Gay Christian received a good bit of publicity. Even before it came out some evangelical Calvinists got a hold of it and prepared a response e-book for immediate release. I'll review that one below.
Vines argument hinges on a few points. First, he argues that the ancient world had no concept of consensual gay relationships between adults. So he admits that the Bible (specifically the six verses that mention homosexuality) condemn it. But they are not condemning anything like what we have today. Instead, homosexual behavior was seen as a symptom of sexual excess. Many who engaged in it were married men who just wanted more so they sought sex with other men or boys. The idea that two people would commit to a monogamous, lifelong adult relationship was not on their radar.
Second, Vines is arguing for a sort of traditional sexual ethic. He thinks the Bible supports committed monogamous marriage, but he wants to expand it to include gay couples. Thus he agrees with the Bible's condemnation of sexual excess. Vines would agree with the Bible's condemnation of promiscuity.
Third, Vines argues that celibacy in the Bible is always chosen, it is never forced on people. From this, expecting all people who experience attraction to the same sex to be celibate for life is not just unfair, it is outside what scripture says on celibacy. If I recall, Vines does agree that the Bible expects celibacy of all for a time, prior to marriage. But in theory any straight person could marry while all gay people must either choose a fake and loveless marriage with a person of the other gender or celibacy. It is better for the health, spiritual and physical of these people, to allow them to marry same gender people.
Vines book is well-written and challenging to the traditional perspective. I am not sure if he succeeds in building a case for gay marriage from within an evangelical understanding of the Bible. But it is a compelling case worth much thought and good response.
That said, the response e-book that came out when this did is not such a good response...but you'll have to read my review of that book elsewhere.
informative
reflective
slow-paced
This is the best book I've read so far on this topic. Intelligently written, well-researched, and immensely profound in its implications, it's no surprise that this book has, in many ways, become the defining argument in support of same-sex marriage in the church.
Many of the holes that left me unsatisfied after reading Unclobber were addressed fully in this book. I recommend this one far more, especially since it relies on a firm, conservative stance that upholds the utter authority of Scripture, while Unclobber veers in a somewhat liberal direction that makes it hard to swallow for many evangelical Christians.
God and the Gay Christian, however, makes no compromises in the authenticity of Scripture, the gravity of sin, and the importance of sexual purity.
All it asks is that we remove our modern, western lens and look at Scripture as it was originally meant to be read, considering the cultural and historical context, and realize with wide-open eyes that we have been poorly - and inaccurately - applying it to the very modern issue of sexual orientation.
We - the church - have made mistakes like this before. We've inaccurately used the Bible to defend slavery, segregation, oppression of women, and misguided science (i.e. the sun revolving around the earth).
But it is the inherent principles of the Bible, not the cultures in which it was written, that have led us to abolish slavery and treat all people with equal dignity.
It is these same inherent Biblical principles that - I believe - will in time lead Christians to accept LGBTQI+ individuals in the church, and to affirm gay marriages as equally valid and blessed by God.
Now, I will say this book isn't perfect. Some of Vines' arguments are, arguably, a stretch (though better arguments do exist where his fall short). Also, his entire stance falls apart if you happen to disagree with his definitions of gender, marriage, and celibacy.
But if you, like me, reject many of the traditional beliefs about the roles and functions of gender, you will find an insightful and eye-opening stance in Vines' book.
Either way, if you are at all looking for a new perspective on this topic, this is a good place to start.
Many of the holes that left me unsatisfied after reading Unclobber were addressed fully in this book. I recommend this one far more, especially since it relies on a firm, conservative stance that upholds the utter authority of Scripture, while Unclobber veers in a somewhat liberal direction that makes it hard to swallow for many evangelical Christians.
God and the Gay Christian, however, makes no compromises in the authenticity of Scripture, the gravity of sin, and the importance of sexual purity.
All it asks is that we remove our modern, western lens and look at Scripture as it was originally meant to be read, considering the cultural and historical context, and realize with wide-open eyes that we have been poorly - and inaccurately - applying it to the very modern issue of sexual orientation.
We - the church - have made mistakes like this before. We've inaccurately used the Bible to defend slavery, segregation, oppression of women, and misguided science (i.e. the sun revolving around the earth).
But it is the inherent principles of the Bible, not the cultures in which it was written, that have led us to abolish slavery and treat all people with equal dignity.
It is these same inherent Biblical principles that - I believe - will in time lead Christians to accept LGBTQI+ individuals in the church, and to affirm gay marriages as equally valid and blessed by God.
Now, I will say this book isn't perfect. Some of Vines' arguments are, arguably, a stretch (though better arguments do exist where his fall short). Also, his entire stance falls apart if you happen to disagree with his definitions of gender, marriage, and celibacy.
But if you, like me, reject many of the traditional beliefs about the roles and functions of gender, you will find an insightful and eye-opening stance in Vines' book.
Either way, if you are at all looking for a new perspective on this topic, this is a good place to start.
3.5*
I'm conflicted. I really appreciated the approach Matthew Vines took to this, but I think this is far more suited for more conservative Christian (who are willing to open their minds) as a starting point. As not only a gay Christian myself but a sex-positive one, this didn't quite hit for me. I agreed with a lot of things Vines said, but some of his arguments didn't quite sit right with me. Overall I did really enjoy this and I think it's great for people in the church who are questioning what they've been taught, or for LGBT Christians/allies who want to be prepared when having these conversations!
I'm conflicted. I really appreciated the approach Matthew Vines took to this, but I think this is far more suited for more conservative Christian (who are willing to open their minds) as a starting point. As not only a gay Christian myself but a sex-positive one, this didn't quite hit for me. I agreed with a lot of things Vines said, but some of his arguments didn't quite sit right with me. Overall I did really enjoy this and I think it's great for people in the church who are questioning what they've been taught, or for LGBT Christians/allies who want to be prepared when having these conversations!
Something I believe is important to note is that Vines’ affirmation of same-sex relationships has also led Him to believe masturbation isn’t a sin and transgenderism isn’t a sin either. So much for his argument of bad fruit vs. good fruit.
challenging
hopeful
informative
reflective
medium-paced