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4.06 AVERAGE
4.06 AVERAGE
Not the *worst* thing in the world I’ve read. But it was, pretty bad.
The decent stuff:
1) The plot is pretty standard high fantasy (political intrigue, magic, war, fighting, managing interpersonal drama), and it is interesting to see how the cities all interact with each other, and the different types of rulership and how they react to instability and conflict.
2) The characters are, just enough to be curious about what happens next (e.g. Egwene and the dreamwalking and the expanding rules of Tel’aran’rhiod and how it interacts with the waking world; Siuan and how she’s going about building power even after being stilled, Matt learning more about not-his-memories and proclivities for battle leadership.)
Things that I hated:
1) Jordan does not know how to write women, at all. The further the books go on the worse their characterization gets (and it did not start strong).
a. The CONSTANT sexualization, either tearing women down from power (Siuan, Morgase) unless they’re evil and mean to men (Red Ajah), or just embarrassing them for being mean and spiteful but actually making bad decisions and needing saving (by men) constantly (Nynaeve, Elayne, Aviendha, Siuan…). Honestly every female character feels like a redditor(TM)’s straw man of “reverse sexism” and it is, so obnoxious to read.
b. THE STUPID. DRESS SHIFTING. CONSTANTLY. IN TEL’ARAN’RHIOD.
Every single female character who ended up in Telaranrhiod just ended up having “ooh subconscious thoughts I must be sexy and wear plunging necklines and transparent dresses” like what the Fuck was that. Including quotes cuz they make me angry:
Like the fact that every single woman going into Tel’aran’rhiod is just Constantly being forced into “sexy” clothing against her will but oh it’s definitely actually her subconscious wanting her to be sexy and in transparent or revealing clothing? Ugh.
c. Leading into third point of lack of agency for women:
It's just the constant belittling of women and removing of women's agency. Like Aviendha being removed from being a Maiden, forced to be a Wise One, and now seemingly being forced into eventual motherhood.
Yikes.
And the really pointed quote from Min:
Using the whole prophecy thing to have these women be forced to drop everything to be in a relationship with a man they rarely know, explicitly against their boundaries (not wanting to share a man), because the stupid deus ex machina that is the concept of the Pattern. “The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills” no the fuck it doesn’t, Jordan just wants all the women to be in love with the main character against their own volition. It’s kinda gross.
d. Speaking of gross, the whole. Elayne getting a crush on Thom thing. EW. He was like her fuckin GRANDPA'S age! He was twice Morgase’s age when dating, so he was in his fuckin 50s-60s when he met Elayne as a baby. ****I HATE this he was LITERALLY a father figure for her this is SO GROSS. And then he had to go and bring Freud [derogatory] into it:
WHAT.
e. Also including this quote cuz I think it’s nonsensical:
?? Has Jordan ever met a woman?
2) Secondly, how he handles cultural differences and races is, real bad.
a. We get fantasy racism against the Aiel that mirrors a lot of anti-indigenous sentiment, calling them “savages” or emphasizing their “stoniness”.
Then there’s the weird colonialism / white savior vibes of the Entire Aiel plotline and the pillaging of Rhuidean.
You know. A sacred cultural site. For the benefit of thewhite non-Aiel Aes Sedai who are? For some reason? Owed undying allegiance for all generations for something no one can remember?
It’s written off like a good thing, like this man completely external to their culture who is EXPLICITLY using them for his war is actually their True Leader for Reasons is completely in the right for desecrating their religious space, stealing anything of value (the angreal/ter’angreal), and demanding these people die for him? But again this is written off as they don’t have a choice and he’s Actually doing them a favor for Fate reasons.
b. And the weird fantasy Orientalism that he projects on the Domani, especially through Leane. From the dictionary of terms:
Combined with the descriptions of “copper skin and dark eyes” is really. REALLY paralleling the hypersexualizing Orientalism that’s projected on a lot of East Asian and Middle Eastern women, and it comes across really creepy and dehumanizing in these books.
Quotes I didn’t hate:
"You run from place to place, hoping that in some way everything will come out for the best."
“Sleep well and wake, Rand al'Thor.”
“If she claims responsibility for the consequences, then she claims responsibility for my actions.” If anything, she sounded angry. “I am a free woman, and I made my own choices. She did not decide for me.”
"A dangerous idiot, however. She had to remember that."
"He strains to hear a whisper who refuses to hear a shout."
"I do not know. But they did not, either. That is the trick of it; their minds made up worse than I ever could. I have seen a tough man break when I sent for a basket of figs and some mice."
"The others were such minor things, but they were realities. A pebble in your shoe was small compared to having your head cut off, but it the pebble was there and the chopping block might never be…"
The decent stuff:
1) The plot is pretty standard high fantasy (political intrigue, magic, war, fighting, managing interpersonal drama), and it is interesting to see how the cities all interact with each other, and the different types of rulership and how they react to instability and conflict.
2) The characters are, just enough to be curious about what happens next (e.g. Egwene and the dreamwalking and the expanding rules of Tel’aran’rhiod and how it interacts with the waking world; Siuan and how she’s going about building power even after being stilled, Matt learning more about not-his-memories and proclivities for battle leadership.)
Things that I hated:
1) Jordan does not know how to write women, at all. The further the books go on the worse their characterization gets (and it did not start strong).
a. The CONSTANT sexualization, either tearing women down from power (Siuan, Morgase) unless they’re evil and mean to men (Red Ajah), or just embarrassing them for being mean and spiteful but actually making bad decisions and needing saving (by men) constantly (Nynaeve, Elayne, Aviendha, Siuan…). Honestly every female character feels like a redditor(TM)’s straw man of “reverse sexism” and it is, so obnoxious to read.
b. THE STUPID. DRESS SHIFTING. CONSTANTLY. IN TEL’ARAN’RHIOD.
Every single female character who ended up in Telaranrhiod just ended up having “ooh subconscious thoughts I must be sexy and wear plunging necklines and transparent dresses” like what the Fuck was that. Including quotes cuz they make me angry:
The high neck trim in Jaerecruz lace came right up under her chin, but pale yellow silk draped her in folds that clung revealingly. How many times had she called Taraboner gowns like this indecent when she had worn them to blend into Tanchico? It seemed that she had grown more used to them than she knew.
she glanced at Callandor; the neckline of her gown dipped precipitously, then rose again.
Siuan had on a gown like those Leane wore, only more sheer than even Leane would ever wear in public, so thin it was hard to tell what color it was.
Like the fact that every single woman going into Tel’aran’rhiod is just Constantly being forced into “sexy” clothing against her will but oh it’s definitely actually her subconscious wanting her to be sexy and in transparent or revealing clothing? Ugh.
c. Leading into third point of lack of agency for women:
It's just the constant belittling of women and removing of women's agency. Like Aviendha being removed from being a Maiden, forced to be a Wise One, and now seemingly being forced into eventual motherhood.
You have other duties to the people than learning to be a Wise One. Those hips were made for babes.
Yikes.
And the really pointed quote from Min:
It shames me to admit it, but I will take him any way I can get him. Not that either of us has much choice.
Using the whole prophecy thing to have these women be forced to drop everything to be in a relationship with a man they rarely know, explicitly against their boundaries (not wanting to share a man), because the stupid deus ex machina that is the concept of the Pattern. “The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills” no the fuck it doesn’t, Jordan just wants all the women to be in love with the main character against their own volition. It’s kinda gross.
d. Speaking of gross, the whole. Elayne getting a crush on Thom thing. EW. He was like her fuckin GRANDPA'S age! He was twice Morgase’s age when dating, so he was in his fuckin 50s-60s when he met Elayne as a baby. ****I HATE this he was LITERALLY a father figure for her this is SO GROSS. And then he had to go and bring Freud [derogatory] into it:
A girl just old enough to really think of herself as a woman. Who else would she measure herself against except her mother? And sometimes, who better to compete against, to prove that she was a woman?
WHAT.
e. Also including this quote cuz I think it’s nonsensical:
some women would give wrong directions from jealousy.
?? Has Jordan ever met a woman?
2) Secondly, how he handles cultural differences and races is, real bad.
a. We get fantasy racism against the Aiel that mirrors a lot of anti-indigenous sentiment, calling them “savages” or emphasizing their “stoniness”.
Then there’s the weird colonialism / white savior vibes of the Entire Aiel plotline and the pillaging of Rhuidean.
You know. A sacred cultural site. For the benefit of the
Now anyone could enter Rhuidean.
Those who called themselves Aiel today were the descendants of those who had broken a pledge of untold generations.
It’s written off like a good thing, like this man completely external to their culture who is EXPLICITLY using them for his war is actually their True Leader for Reasons is completely in the right for desecrating their religious space, stealing anything of value (the angreal/ter’angreal), and demanding these people die for him? But again this is written off as they don’t have a choice and he’s Actually doing them a favor for Fate reasons.
b. And the weird fantasy Orientalism that he projects on the Domani, especially through Leane. From the dictionary of terms:
Domani women are famous — or infamous — for their beauty, seductiveness, and scandalous clothes.
Combined with the descriptions of “copper skin and dark eyes” is really. REALLY paralleling the hypersexualizing Orientalism that’s projected on a lot of East Asian and Middle Eastern women, and it comes across really creepy and dehumanizing in these books.
Quotes I didn’t hate:
"You run from place to place, hoping that in some way everything will come out for the best."
“Sleep well and wake, Rand al'Thor.”
“If she claims responsibility for the consequences, then she claims responsibility for my actions.” If anything, she sounded angry. “I am a free woman, and I made my own choices. She did not decide for me.”
"A dangerous idiot, however. She had to remember that."
"He strains to hear a whisper who refuses to hear a shout."
"I do not know. But they did not, either. That is the trick of it; their minds made up worse than I ever could. I have seen a tough man break when I sent for a basket of figs and some mice."
"The others were such minor things, but they were realities. A pebble in your shoe was small compared to having your head cut off, but it the pebble was there and the chopping block might never be…"
adventurous
dark
sad
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
A mix
Strong character development:
No
Loveable characters:
Complicated
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
The Wheel of Time series started out so well with an amazing world, interesting characters, and an engaging plot. But the more we advance in the story the more difficult it is to stay interested in it as the series loses more and more steam. The Fires of Heaven is a very big book and yet it feels like barely anything happened in it.
Thank god for audiobooks otherwise I probably never would have finished this book and it would have been a shame cus the ending is almost worth it. But what a chore it was to get there. There's so little happening that I ended up forgetting why some characters did what they did and went where they went. I'm not even sure of the purpose of the story anymore.
The more I read Robert Jordan’s books, the more I realise that I hate his writing. It was sooo repetitive. If I have to read one more time how Nynaeve twists her braid, or how women hate men and men don't understand women, I'm just going to burn the book. On the other hand, I really enjoyed reading more about dream magic! So far The Fires of Heaven is my least favourite and even if I considered DNFing the series while reading it, I’m too attached to the characters and interested in where this is all going to give it up just yet.
Thank god for audiobooks otherwise I probably never would have finished this book and it would have been a shame cus the ending is almost worth it. But what a chore it was to get there. There's so little happening that I ended up forgetting why some characters did what they did and went where they went. I'm not even sure of the purpose of the story anymore.
The more I read Robert Jordan’s books, the more I realise that I hate his writing. It was sooo repetitive. If I have to read one more time how Nynaeve twists her braid, or how women hate men and men don't understand women, I'm just going to burn the book. On the other hand, I really enjoyed reading more about dream magic! So far The Fires of Heaven is my least favourite and even if I considered DNFing the series while reading it, I’m too attached to the characters and interested in where this is all going to give it up just yet.
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
A mix
Strong character development:
Yes
Loveable characters:
Yes
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
Fires of Heaven continues the series wonderfully.
Fire of Heaven has had the best plot so far, with political intrigue between the Aiel and Shaido, the political maneuvering within the Aes Sedai, the tensions are rising and the stakes are higher.
The character development is outstanding. Rand continues to grapple with his role as the dragon reborn and that burden, you get to see more of his internal conflicts, and parts of Lews Therin start to seep in and take over. Nynaeve, who I wasn’t initially fond of, became a stand out character, reading about her overcoming her guilt over Birgitte, and fear of Moghedien really made her grow more, and I can see why so many fans love her character.
The climax was incredible, those final chapters are full of suspense, the magic is so vivid, and the confrontation between Rahvin and Rand is tense, and well executed. There was also a surprisingly emotional moment towards the end that caught me off guard, as well as another twist I didn’t see coming at all.
My criticisms, the circus plot was boring at first, but not as annoying as I was expecting, Elayne, however, remains the weakest of the main characters, her and Nynaeve together does not make for great reading, I need Jordan to stop having her obsess over Rand she’s still a nothing character to me.
Fire of Heaven has had the best plot so far, with political intrigue between the Aiel and Shaido, the political maneuvering within the Aes Sedai, the tensions are rising and the stakes are higher.
The character development is outstanding. Rand continues to grapple with his role as the dragon reborn and that burden, you get to see more of his internal conflicts, and parts of Lews Therin start to seep in and take over. Nynaeve, who I wasn’t initially fond of, became a stand out character, reading about her overcoming her guilt over Birgitte, and fear of Moghedien really made her grow more, and I can see why so many fans love her character.
The climax was incredible, those final chapters are full of suspense, the magic is so vivid, and the confrontation between Rahvin and Rand is tense, and well executed. There was also a surprisingly emotional moment towards the end that caught me off guard, as well as another twist I didn’t see coming at all.
My criticisms, the circus plot was boring at first, but not as annoying as I was expecting, Elayne, however, remains the weakest of the main characters, her and Nynaeve together does not make for great reading, I need Jordan to stop having her obsess over Rand she’s still a nothing character to me.
adventurous
tense
slow-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
Plot
Strong character development:
No
Loveable characters:
Complicated
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
I enjoyed book 4 so much that coming into this one, I didn't like it as much as first. As the story progressed, a lot happens in terms of character relationships, which made the story more compelling. A LOT happens towards the end of the book with some great action and twists I didn't see coming. Overall, it was slow to start but definitely won me over. 4.5 🌟
adventurous
mysterious
tense
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
A mix
Strong character development:
Yes
Loveable characters:
Yes
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
adventurous
dark
mysterious
tense
medium-paced
adventurous
dark
emotional
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
A mix
Strong character development:
Yes
Loveable characters:
Yes
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
adventurous
tense
slow-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
A mix
Strong character development:
Yes