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anth's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.75
Almost 4 stars because this book really fascinated me and made me think a lot, because I found Ry and Victor two interesting and intense characters and I felt very invested in them and their relationship.
However, I'm not sure I completely get where the story went. I think I do, but the doubt leaves me hanging. Maybe that's the point. I don't know what was the point, but maybe it was leaving me here to think about what the point was.
However, I'm not sure I completely get where the story went. I think I do, but the doubt leaves me hanging. Maybe that's the point. I don't know what was the point, but maybe it was leaving me here to think about what the point was.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Transphobia and Deadnaming
Moderate: Sexual assault, Child death, and Miscarriage
Minor: Misogyny
mryshells's review
challenging
dark
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
1.0
Huge TW for transphobia towards characters in the book but also in the clearly problematic views the author must hold that come through in the writing.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Deadnaming, Grief, Hate crime, Homophobia, Medical content, Medical trauma, Physical abuse, Rape, Sexual assault, Sexual content, Sexual harassment, Sexual violence, Transphobia, and Violence
Moderate: Ableism, Alcohol, Antisemitism, Body horror, Child death, Cursing, Death, Gore, Infidelity, Lesbophobia, Miscarriage, Misogyny, Outing, Pregnancy, Religious bigotry, Schizophrenia/Psychosis , and Sexism
tenten's review
challenging
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? N/A
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
2.25
that was...okay? i guess?
the historical Mary Shelley parts were my favorite, which was a surprise because i don't normally like historical fiction. this book is clearly well-researched (except for the transgender character lol), and i think the fact that the historical characters were real people benefitted Winterson—that is to say, they actually had distinctive personalities and their conversations felt more <i>real</i> than anyone in the modern day, even though they got int a lot of philosophical debates too.
the only modern character that didn't feel one-dimensional to me was Victor, because he was very strange and passionate and had strong convictions in a way that felt more fleshed out than everyone else. something about the intensity of Claire's religious fervor rubbed me the wrong way, especially because she was the only black one (as an aside, i hate when (white) writers only point out the race of non-white characters. i never read a character description that's like "Claire was tall, white, beautiful..." like, i get it, whiteness is your default but sheesh.)
i wasn't as bothered by Ron's misogyny as other readers because i understood that as being the point, and Polly D didn't feel relevant for most of the book (neither did Claire, honestly.)
i'm all for stream-of-consciousness and a plot that isn't so clear cut but this felt like Winterson trying to work through her thoughts about AI and transhumanism and faith and science, and the characters are kinda just there as mouthpieces. I watched a documentary about Toni Morrison last year where she talks about how she writes to answer/explore questions and ideas, which clearly Winterson is doing here, but with Morrison, her characters and stories are at least fully fleshed out, even when there isn't a very complex plot.
i noticed that a lot of queer readers took issue with Ry's characterization. i understood the transphobia as being a reflection of the other characters's ignorance, but Ry's passivity about it annoyed me. i don't know if it was Winterson's intention for Ry to be non-binary rather than specifically a trans man, but i think that would've worked better, but my perception is colored by the fact that i'm non-binary. this isn't to say that non-binary people are comfortable being misgendered and deadnamed, but i think some of Ry's ideals about gender, and their own gender identity, aligned lore with non-binaryness.
this is a spoiler but:in the last quarter-ish of the book, Ry is assaulted in a bar bathroom by a transphobic drunk dude. this took me out of the story because it felt so out of place—while yes, Ry had previously been misgendered, deadnamed, and fetishized throughout the story, something about this seemed...too far. it also had no bearing on the "plot" and felt like it was put in as a "damn, trans people be facing VIOLENCE" moment. but the misgendering, deadnaming, etc already showed us that so!?
overall, i thought this was just...ok, and probs wouldn't read it again. i checked this out from the library and was torn between this and Daisy Jones & the Six, and i wish i had checked that out instead 😭 i don't think i liked Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit that much either, so i think that Winterson and i just might not mesh!?
the historical Mary Shelley parts were my favorite, which was a surprise because i don't normally like historical fiction. this book is clearly well-researched (except for the transgender character lol), and i think the fact that the historical characters were real people benefitted Winterson—that is to say, they actually had distinctive personalities and their conversations felt more <i>real</i> than anyone in the modern day, even though they got int a lot of philosophical debates too.
the only modern character that didn't feel one-dimensional to me was Victor, because he was very strange and passionate and had strong convictions in a way that felt more fleshed out than everyone else. something about the intensity of Claire's religious fervor rubbed me the wrong way, especially because she was the only black one (as an aside, i hate when (white) writers only point out the race of non-white characters. i never read a character description that's like "Claire was tall, white, beautiful..." like, i get it, whiteness is your default but sheesh.)
i wasn't as bothered by Ron's misogyny as other readers because i understood that as being the point, and Polly D didn't feel relevant for most of the book (neither did Claire, honestly.)
i'm all for stream-of-consciousness and a plot that isn't so clear cut but this felt like Winterson trying to work through her thoughts about AI and transhumanism and faith and science, and the characters are kinda just there as mouthpieces. I watched a documentary about Toni Morrison last year where she talks about how she writes to answer/explore questions and ideas, which clearly Winterson is doing here, but with Morrison, her characters and stories are at least fully fleshed out, even when there isn't a very complex plot.
i noticed that a lot of queer readers took issue with Ry's characterization. i understood the transphobia as being a reflection of the other characters's ignorance, but Ry's passivity about it annoyed me. i don't know if it was Winterson's intention for Ry to be non-binary rather than specifically a trans man, but i think that would've worked better, but my perception is colored by the fact that i'm non-binary. this isn't to say that non-binary people are comfortable being misgendered and deadnamed, but i think some of Ry's ideals about gender, and their own gender identity, aligned lore with non-binaryness.
this is a spoiler but:
overall, i thought this was just...ok, and probs wouldn't read it again. i checked this out from the library and was torn between this and Daisy Jones & the Six, and i wish i had checked that out instead 😭 i don't think i liked Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit that much either, so i think that Winterson and i just might not mesh!?
Content Warnings
Graphic: Transphobia, Sexual content, and Deadnaming
Moderate: Body horror, Misogyny, and Sexism
Minor: Confinement, Fatphobia, Forced institutionalization, Grief, Miscarriage, Sexual assault, and Rape
meganisreading's review
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
I hated this book. None of it is as interesting, poetic or progressive as it desperately tries to be, and instead we get a disturbing insight into the opinions and values of a writer who burns her own books after being offended at being described as a ‘women’s writer’, yet can barely veil her own transphobia and internalised misogyny!
Now - I am not Trans myself so I do not speak for the community - however from having the basic decency to research, listen to the community and have an ounce of common sense I know that having a character who is a Trans man who gets constantly referred to by their dead name, fetishise by a manipulative and abusive boyfriend who calls them an ‘enigma’ while enforcing that ‘I’m not gay’, has slurs and hurtful phrases and misgendering thrown at them constantly, is assaulted, and basically told constantly that they shouldn’t exist - YET NO ONE GET CALLED OUT FOR THIS is not something helpful or at all empowering or even vaguely sympathetic to the trans community. Instead it perpetuates the idea that this abuse is something that should just be put up with - and not toxic situations and people you have the right to remove yourself from! The writers lack of research into what gender identity means to the Trans community has meant that instead of looking like a forward thinker in the ‘gender is just a construct’ department - she is instead hurtful and damaging, completely taking any nuance out of these theories and arguments - instead using her trans character as a metaphor rather than treating them as a person who should be respected with even very minimal human decency.
The most telling sign this book is way of the ‘progressive’ mark it tried so desperately, desperately hard to hit is that the character who speaks for the longest amount of time is the misogynistic Ron Lord - who as satiric as he may seem to start, looses its humour when he speaks more than anyone else in the modern day strand of the story. Not that anyone else (expect Ry) has anything less toxic to say. Her female characters are also painfully lacking and the one black character is also built on stereotypes as well as being toxic as hell.
In terms of the plot and writing - the modern storyline is ridiculous and uninspiring, and although the story of Mary Shelly has some interesting moments, it to is littered with misogyny (I could write an essay talking only about how bad her use of aggressive sexual language is used to humiliate and pit women again each other when it comes to Mary’s stepsister Claire) but more than anything is just painfully badly written! This train-of-consciousness style of writing with the attempt at poetic prose is pulled of SHOCKINGLY badly. Instead of poetic it just seems terribly stagnant and lacking in humanity or empathy.
All in all I think it’s pretty obvious my opinion on this book. I would actively discourage anyone from reading it and the fact it was long-listed for anything I think is horrendous.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Misogyny, Sexual assault, Transphobia, and Deadnaming
Moderate: Racism
bookedbymadeline's review
Confusing how there aren’t any quotes around the dialogue
Problematic: Ry compliments a Black woman’s hair by saying she looks like an expert “maybe because of how you style it. Very professional.” As I’ve seen from other reviewers the book does not get any better in Trans rep for Ry. I have no interest in reading about a Trans character that is written for cis people like myself and would rather spend my time on books with more accurate representation.
The conversation around AI-prof stein says that AI won’t make women obsolete or be sexist which begs the question of how could it not be sexist when the ones building the robots are sexist themselves? It’s human error. He’s being idealistic in thinking that a future of AI will be non binary when the creators of AI have their own prejudices and beliefs that will be built into AI, just like humans writing the Bible put their own image on God.
Where is the story even set in?! First they talk about Memphis then they’re going to a bar in Trafalgar Square?
Content Warnings
Graphic: Deadnaming, Misogyny, Sexism, and Transphobia
Moderate: Grief
Minor: Ableism and Child death
sophiewelsh's review
dark
mysterious
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
1.5
Content Warnings
Graphic: Antisemitism, Blood, Body horror, Child death, Deadnaming, Gore, Homophobia, Misogyny, Rape, Sexism, Sexual assault, Sexual violence, Toxic relationship, and Transphobia
morebedsidebooks's review
2.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Deadnaming, Homophobia, Child death, Sexism, Misogyny, Transphobia, Sexual assault, and Racism
Moderate: Pedophilia
rileyeffective's review
1.5
TW: transphobia, sexual assault
I liked the two timelines that the book had, especially because they were at two very different points in scientific development, yet the people were occupied with very similar issues. The many references to the history and content Frankenstein are also carefully thought out. If you have not read Frankenstein and want to read Frankisstein, read Frankenstein first. Otherwise a lot will go lost on you.
Those were the only positive things about the book. The book features transphobia and misgendering throughout. A lot of characters are not understanding of the gender identity of the trans character. I also have to point out that there is sexual assault described in detail (why was that scene in there to begin with?). I would honestly recommend reading something else instead.
I liked the two timelines that the book had, especially because they were at two very different points in scientific development, yet the people were occupied with very similar issues. The many references to the history and content Frankenstein are also carefully thought out. If you have not read Frankenstein and want to read Frankisstein, read Frankenstein first. Otherwise a lot will go lost on you.
Those were the only positive things about the book. The book features transphobia and misgendering throughout. A lot of characters are not understanding of the gender identity of the trans character. I also have to point out that there is sexual assault described in detail (why was that scene in there to begin with?). I would honestly recommend reading something else instead.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Sexual assault, Transphobia, Deadnaming, and Misogyny
hmatt's review against another edition
challenging
mysterious
reflective
tense
medium-paced
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
interesting examination of how body politics intersect with technology/AI
Content Warnings
Graphic: Sexual assault, Sexual violence, Transphobia, and Deadnaming
Moderate: Body horror, Toxic relationship, Sexual content, Misogyny, Medical content, and Homophobia
Minor: Child death, Confinement, Death, Forced institutionalization, Infidelity, Miscarriage, and Sexism
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