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pianomandan's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
emotional
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
4.5
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death, Racial slurs, Racism, Slavery, Trafficking, Colonisation, Classism, and Deportation
46jjsg's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
emotional
hopeful
informative
mysterious
reflective
sad
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
I listened to the AB intermediately and I'm so delighted I did- I don't often listen to ABs but I wanted to accurately understand the pronunciation of all the unfamiliar foreign words I expected given the context of the novel. I thought the narrator was very engaging!
Content Warnings
Graphic: Bullying, Child death, Death, Drug use, Emotional abuse, Gun violence, Hate crime, Misogyny, Physical abuse, Racial slurs, Racism, Sexism, Slavery, Suicidal thoughts, Suicide, Torture, Violence, Xenophobia, Blood, Police brutality, Medical content, Trafficking, Kidnapping, Grief, Murder, Alcohol, Sexual harassment, Colonisation, War, Injury/Injury detail, and Classism
Minor: Addiction, Alcoholism, Drug abuse, Terminal illness, and Death of parent
sheeprustler's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Bullying, Death, Emotional abuse, Misogyny, Physical abuse, Racial slurs, Racism, Slavery, Violence, Xenophobia, Blood, Trafficking, Murder, Cultural appropriation, Gaslighting, Toxic friendship, Colonisation, Injury/Injury detail, and Classism
yrioona's review
adventurous
challenging
dark
emotional
informative
inspiring
mysterious
reflective
sad
tense
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
4.25
Brilliant, emotionally rich, a bit precious sometimes, but consistently engrossing. I loved this book. I felt real heartache for Kuang's characters (the ones who deserved it anyway); the setting was vivid; the message was uncompromising and necessary; it was dense with historical and linguistic detail without once feeling slow or bogged down.
I have two complaints: (1) this is a novel full of the results of meticulous research, to the point where it sometimes feels like (excellent and compelling) didactic nonfiction, and it weaves research in with fantasy worldbuilding so skillfully that there are moments where it's hard to tell which is which. This is impressive, but also frustrating -- I kept wanting to know what was real! (Relatedly, there are also moments where the author uses footnotes for asides about character/other pure narrative commentary, which i found annoying.)
Second complaint: the magic system just didn't feel "true" to me. It seemed a little contrived, and metaphorically on-the-nose, and like a (very well-built) vehicle for poetic truths and cool language facts. I liked reading about it, though -- it was just not super convincing as fantasy magicks go.
I have two complaints: (1) this is a novel full of the results of meticulous research, to the point where it sometimes feels like (excellent and compelling) didactic nonfiction, and it weaves research in with fantasy worldbuilding so skillfully that there are moments where it's hard to tell which is which. This is impressive, but also frustrating -- I kept wanting to know what was real! (Relatedly, there are also moments where the author uses footnotes for asides about character/other pure narrative commentary, which i found annoying.)
Second complaint: the magic system just didn't feel "true" to me. It seemed a little contrived, and metaphorically on-the-nose, and like a (very well-built) vehicle for poetic truths and cool language facts. I liked reading about it, though -- it was just not super convincing as fantasy magicks go.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Suicide, Torture, Violence, Xenophobia, Trafficking, Toxic friendship, Colonisation, and War
Moderate: Slavery
finallythetruth's review
dark
informative
mysterious
reflective
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
3.0
SOME MILD SPOILERS AHEAD
✅ What worked
• the exploration of Empire - what sustains it, the violence within it, the exploitation and plundering, how it treats the PoCs displaced from their colonised homelands as disposable, and welcomes and treats them "well" only for the benefit of Empire. For all of this book's flaws, this was something I enjoyed reading about.
• the exploration of languages and linguistics - as someone who loves languages, I enjoyed this too.
• the discussions about how we can bring down the Empire, though they could have gone much deeper.
• the revolutionary group was a potentially interesting group and they could have done so much more, but as i explain below, it's clear RFK does not understand direct action groups
• I learnt a lot about the history of the British Empire and now want to learn more about their exploitation of India
🙅🏻♀️ What didn't work so well
• RFK's writing is not as good as people think.
• She does not know how to write fully fleshed out characters. After 540 pages, I still barely know let alone like most of the characters. I liked Ramy and could picture Griffin and kinda wanted him to be the hero. Victoire was a bit hard for me to picture, Robin was so flat, and Letty was incredibly annoying which I imagine was RFK's goal as she tried to bring out the fragility of yt women. Professor Lovell was despicable and somewhat terrifying but I wanted more about his past and motivations.
• RFK will give us inklings of a character, she'll write stuff like "his face was unreadable" or "something flashed across his face but it was gone in an instant", but never gets around to fleshing this out.
• i think people are so taken aback by this book because they like the discussion of Empire - because RF Kuang spent so much of the book pontificating with her own thoughts about Empire, almost as if this is the first time someone has written about this. But to me this was done with so little subtlety or nuance. Too. Much. Lecturing. Show us, don't tell us. It almost felt like RFK was parroting things she'd read in Frantz Fanon's books.
• everything after the second sea voyage is so incredibly difficult to believe. It was incongruous to the direction we'd been led to believe the book would take.
• on this topic, it's clear RFK has never striked before nor has she been in a direct action group. Is the strike in the book meant to make up for RFK not striking with the Harper Collins workers?
• RFK portrays what at first appears to be a revolutionary group, but the actions that they take later on are just so unbelievable. We also barely get to see much of their global network and this should really have been explored in this book as a thread about how to bring down Empire. One of the members talks about how we have to unite in our struggle against colonisation, and the global network would have been a great way to show that. There could have been collaborations with other nations including ones that are heavily featured in the story, but this didn't happen (I guess it would have been hard to communicate rapidly, although the silver bars symbolised our modern technology so I'm sure they'd have found some way).
• she killed off too many characters. She also ends up representing resistance martyrs in a pretty colonised way.
• This is not a fantasy book and it should not be marketed as such. I still consider myself a beginner fantasy reader but this had so little world building in terms of a fantastical world.
• someone please tell RFK she isn't gonna make footnotes fetch. They were overused just for the purpose of her showing off her own knowledge. She spends too much time lecturing the reader (about language and history), the dialogue could be much more succinct, there's so many big chunky passages where no action takes place and the dialogue doesn't serve much purpose except to once again show off her knowledge. And there is a lot of repetition.
• finally, she has totally imposed 2020s DEI language onto 1800s Oxford students of colour. On the first sea voyage, Robin - probably a 11 year old at the time - mentally makes notes about the indentured labour that a Chinese sailor he encounters is contracted to complete. I have never met an 11 year old who speaks like this, and I don't expect people outside the West to utilise the same kind of DEI language either.
In the end i give this 6☆ out of 10. It seems crazy that after so many criticisms I still give 6☆. I don't think this is a terrible book, but it's just nowhere near as amazing as people think.
I want more of the bringing down Empire, i just think Rebecca doesn't understand it enough herself to be writing about it.
✅ What worked
• the exploration of Empire - what sustains it, the violence within it, the exploitation and plundering, how it treats the PoCs displaced from their colonised homelands as disposable, and welcomes and treats them "well" only for the benefit of Empire. For all of this book's flaws, this was something I enjoyed reading about.
• the exploration of languages and linguistics - as someone who loves languages, I enjoyed this too.
• the discussions about how we can bring down the Empire, though they could have gone much deeper.
• the revolutionary group was a potentially interesting group and they could have done so much more, but as i explain below, it's clear RFK does not understand direct action groups
• I learnt a lot about the history of the British Empire and now want to learn more about their exploitation of India
🙅🏻♀️ What didn't work so well
• RFK's writing is not as good as people think.
• She does not know how to write fully fleshed out characters. After 540 pages, I still barely know let alone like most of the characters. I liked Ramy and could picture Griffin and kinda wanted him to be the hero. Victoire was a bit hard for me to picture, Robin was so flat, and Letty was incredibly annoying which I imagine was RFK's goal as she tried to bring out the fragility of yt women. Professor Lovell was despicable and somewhat terrifying but I wanted more about his past and motivations.
• RFK will give us inklings of a character, she'll write stuff like "his face was unreadable" or "something flashed across his face but it was gone in an instant", but never gets around to fleshing this out.
• i think people are so taken aback by this book because they like the discussion of Empire - because RF Kuang spent so much of the book pontificating with her own thoughts about Empire, almost as if this is the first time someone has written about this. But to me this was done with so little subtlety or nuance. Too. Much. Lecturing. Show us, don't tell us. It almost felt like RFK was parroting things she'd read in Frantz Fanon's books.
• everything after the second sea voyage is so incredibly difficult to believe. It was incongruous to the direction we'd been led to believe the book would take.
• on this topic, it's clear RFK has never striked before nor has she been in a direct action group. Is the strike in the book meant to make up for RFK not striking with the Harper Collins workers?
• RFK portrays what at first appears to be a revolutionary group, but the actions that they take later on are just so unbelievable. We also barely get to see much of their global network and this should really have been explored in this book as a thread about how to bring down Empire. One of the members talks about how we have to unite in our struggle against colonisation, and the global network would have been a great way to show that. There could have been collaborations with other nations including ones that are heavily featured in the story, but this didn't happen (I guess it would have been hard to communicate rapidly, although the silver bars symbolised our modern technology so I'm sure they'd have found some way).
• she killed off too many characters. She also ends up representing resistance martyrs in a pretty colonised way.
• This is not a fantasy book and it should not be marketed as such. I still consider myself a beginner fantasy reader but this had so little world building in terms of a fantastical world.
• someone please tell RFK she isn't gonna make footnotes fetch. They were overused just for the purpose of her showing off her own knowledge. She spends too much time lecturing the reader (about language and history), the dialogue could be much more succinct, there's so many big chunky passages where no action takes place and the dialogue doesn't serve much purpose except to once again show off her knowledge. And there is a lot of repetition.
• finally, she has totally imposed 2020s DEI language onto 1800s Oxford students of colour. On the first sea voyage, Robin - probably a 11 year old at the time - mentally makes notes about the indentured labour that a Chinese sailor he encounters is contracted to complete. I have never met an 11 year old who speaks like this, and I don't expect people outside the West to utilise the same kind of DEI language either.
In the end i give this 6☆ out of 10. It seems crazy that after so many criticisms I still give 6☆. I don't think this is a terrible book, but it's just nowhere near as amazing as people think.
I want more of the bringing down Empire, i just think Rebecca doesn't understand it enough herself to be writing about it.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Child abuse, Drug use, Suicidal thoughts, Violence, Xenophobia, Trafficking, Death of parent, and Colonisation
Moderate: Slavery
lavendervioletreader's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
informative
inspiring
mysterious
reflective
sad
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
I can't say anything else but : breathtaking, I don't think I'll recover from this story, ever.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Child abuse, Death, Emotional abuse, Gun violence, Misogyny, Physical abuse, Racial slurs, Racism, Sexism, Suicide, Violence, Xenophobia, Trafficking, Grief, Death of parent, Murder, Colonisation, Injury/Injury detail, and Classism
Moderate: Torture, Blood, Alcohol, Sexual harassment, and War
Minor: Alcoholism and Drug use
paigerb's review
challenging
dark
informative
inspiring
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
4.25
Content Warnings
Graphic: Racial slurs, Racism, Sexism, Slavery, Suicide, Violence, Trafficking, and War
readandchill23's review against another edition
dark
emotional
informative
reflective
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
4.5
This is an amazing medium burn for me and I enjoyed every ounce and nod to world history and linguistics through the eyes of craving justice, understanding and equity.
I kept thinking... Joanne could NEVER.
Also, side note: We all know a Letty. We should all shun our Lettys.
A few favorite quotes:
"Colonialism is not a machine capable of thinking; a body endowed with reason. it is naked violence and only gives in when confronted with greater violence."
"Empire needed extraction. Violence shocked the system because the system cannot cannibalize itself and survive. The hands of the Empire were tied because it could not raise that from which it profited. And like those sugar fields, like those markets, like those bodies of unwilling labor, Babel was an asset."
"Strikers in this country never won broad public support. For the public merely wanted all of the conveniences of modern life without the guilt of knowing how those conveniences were procured."
"Violence was the only thing that brought the colonizer to the table."
I kept thinking... Joanne could NEVER.
Also, side note: We all know a Letty. We should all shun our Lettys.
A few favorite quotes:
"Colonialism is not a machine capable of thinking; a body endowed with reason. it is naked violence and only gives in when confronted with greater violence."
"Empire needed extraction. Violence shocked the system because the system cannot cannibalize itself and survive. The hands of the Empire were tied because it could not raise that from which it profited. And like those sugar fields, like those markets, like those bodies of unwilling labor, Babel was an asset."
"Strikers in this country never won broad public support. For the public merely wanted all of the conveniences of modern life without the guilt of knowing how those conveniences were procured."
"Violence was the only thing that brought the colonizer to the table."
Content Warnings
Moderate: Bullying, Child death, Genocide, Misogyny, Racism, Violence, Forced institutionalization, Trafficking, Grief, Gaslighting, Colonisation, and Classism
onmypocket's review
adventurous
challenging
informative
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
1.5
Content Warnings
Graphic: Child abuse, Death, Drug abuse, Drug use, Emotional abuse, Gun violence, Misogyny, Physical abuse, Racial slurs, Racism, Sexism, Slavery, Suicidal thoughts, Suicide, Torture, Violence, Xenophobia, Trafficking, Death of parent, Murder, Cultural appropriation, Gaslighting, Colonisation, Injury/Injury detail, and Classism
elisha002's review against another edition
emotional
mysterious
sad
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.75
Content Warnings
Graphic: Child abuse, Death, Racism, Slavery, Suicidal thoughts, Violence, Trafficking, Death of parent, Colonisation, War, and Classism