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dinocraniac's review against another edition
challenging
dark
informative
sad
medium-paced
4.0
Book with a topic made for me! Separating the art from the artist has always been such a struggle for me. Dederer's book was so captivating and most of the time I didn't want to stop reading. However, there were parts that were incredibly uncomfy to read. Such a jarring and horrifying opening to the book. Like actually an insane way to open a book. And the whole chapter about Lolita. Ending was a bit weak as well, at least the second to last chapter. Throughout the book it annoyed me how she kept saying "we", only to be like "not we, I". She would correct herself and then keep doing it like please get your shit together. But anyway. Overall a really good book, highly reccomend.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Adult/minor relationship, Sexual violence, Rape, Sexual assault, and Pedophilia
Moderate: Suicide, Addiction, Alcoholism, and Domestic abuse
inlibrisveritas's review against another edition
informative
reflective
medium-paced
3.5
If you're going into this looking for an answer on how to deal with the monsters in our media, you won't find one. This is very much a personal look at how the author views and deals with it, and how as a collective it's not an easy answer to form.
Content Warnings
Moderate: Alcoholism, Self harm, Pedophilia, Sexism, and Sexual assault
Minor: Addiction
hduc's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
hopeful
informative
inspiring
reflective
medium-paced
5.0
This book deals with monstrous people. Of course there will be disturbing stories. But fear not, take one or two pages at a time. You would come out of this book a heart lighter.
Content Warnings
Minor: Pedophilia, Self harm, Child abuse, Grief, Misogyny, Racism, Toxic relationship, War, Violence, Sexism, Hate crime, Physical abuse, Sexual violence, Suicide, Genocide, Addiction, Adult/minor relationship, Alcoholism, Cursing, Domestic abuse, and Drug abuse
mirandaleighhhh's review against another edition
medium-paced
1.5
Upon discovering this I was really intrigued - the question of ethics and morality in separating the art from the artist is one I spend a lot of time thinking about. However- and people have gone more in depth with their review than I have the energy for after spending 10 hours listening to the author ponder this- this is unorganized and messy and upon reflection, this being a memoir is confusing and ultimately weakens a lot of the point. Because it’s trying to answer one overarching question, it dangerously compares “monsters” who an*lly r*pe 10 year olds to alcoholics? or women who “abandon” their children? (give them up for adoption or who work?)
It’s not that nothing ever made sense- she had a lot of takes that I agreed with - but honestly and truly this ended up reading like a woman who still has a lot of guilt and who has healing to do over her own life's actions. There is a lot of projection even and most especially when she is explicitly trying not to. There’s a lot of white woman guilt too it seems.
Most of all I hated her emphasis on peoples bad deeds creating a “stain” on their past and future actions…and there was a fucked up sentence regarding Michael Jackson when she first presented this concept…but anyway, the whole stain thing made her comparisons even more wild. Sylvia Plath’s suicide (her stain) and Woody Allen’s abuse of woman (his stain) are two completely different things.
And then she ends everything with mentioning how there are “monsters” in our lives that we still love. Like yes but…arent we talking about artists we don’t personally know and never will? So why are you ending it with “its all love yall” ???
I think this is a nuanced topic with lots to be said, and she says some of it, but her zooming in and out and in and out without thoughtful connection irritated me. She also doesn’t really discuss the question of platforming or financially supporting (ie buying merchandise or making the person money) a “monster” who is very much alive, which I think is an important piece of this whole fucking thing!
I cannot recommend this, especially the audio, and I can see how this would trigger a lot of people.
It’s not that nothing ever made sense- she had a lot of takes that I agreed with - but honestly and truly this ended up reading like a woman who still has a lot of guilt and who has healing to do over her own life's actions. There is a lot of projection even and most especially when she is explicitly trying not to. There’s a lot of white woman guilt too it seems.
Most of all I hated her emphasis on peoples bad deeds creating a “stain” on their past and future actions…and there was a fucked up sentence regarding Michael Jackson when she first presented this concept…but anyway, the whole stain thing made her comparisons even more wild. Sylvia Plath’s suicide (her stain) and Woody Allen’s abuse of woman (his stain) are two completely different things.
And then she ends everything with mentioning how there are “monsters” in our lives that we still love. Like yes but…arent we talking about artists we don’t personally know and never will? So why are you ending it with “its all love yall” ???
I think this is a nuanced topic with lots to be said, and she says some of it, but her zooming in and out and in and out without thoughtful connection irritated me. She also doesn’t really discuss the question of platforming or financially supporting (ie buying merchandise or making the person money) a “monster” who is very much alive, which I think is an important piece of this whole fucking thing!
I cannot recommend this, especially the audio, and I can see how this would trigger a lot of people.
Content Warnings
Moderate: Child abuse, Addiction, Rape, Alcoholism, and Abandonment
dubtronius15's review against another edition
challenging
emotional
hopeful
reflective
medium-paced
3.75
Content Warnings
Moderate: Child abuse, Rape, Addiction, Alcoholism, and Racism
chelseadoherty's review against another edition
challenging
informative
reflective
medium-paced
4.0
Content Warnings
Minor: Mental illness, Pedophilia, Incest, Sexual assault, Addiction, Abandonment, Abortion, Adult/minor relationship, Child abuse, Alcoholism, Antisemitism, Domestic abuse, Self harm, Drug abuse, Racism, Religious bigotry, Mass/school shootings, Pandemic/Epidemic, Misogyny, and Suicide
rustproofbottom's review against another edition
challenging
emotional
informative
reflective
fast-paced
4.75
wow. so much to unpack in this book. I will absolutely be returning to this one again and again. it's that important and rich in thought and reflection.
at the top is a helluva swing at examining what we should do about the relationship between art we love (in all form and genre) & artist & our consumption of it in context of artists (overwhelmingly mostly men) that end up doing horrible things are could righteously be called gigantic pieces of sh+t... they are, monsters.
This is a topic that I've talked with friends about and never landing anywhere near anything that resembled a satisfying answer.
I feel like this could be 10,000 page book easily. Because this book is so much more than a take down of these people or a simple guide to rationalization. It's an open invitation to consider how your consumption of art can be a mirror into who you are. Not as a "we" or "us" that resents a broader group, culture, or society. But as individuals.
you are taken through a series of analyses and reflections that invite you to reflect on the intersection of the art that is being consumed, the artist's biography AND your own biography, not the idealic, sanitized version, the real, raw, warts and all version. The whole story - stains and all.
you're also invited to think broadly about the role of societal norms & expectations, pressures of late-stage capitalistic systems, and morals and virtues that are constantly evolving. How do they contribute to your own definition of self? How does art help inform that definition? How are your own beliefs & behaviors influenced by, caused by, supported by, identified with all of those?
Part philosophy. Part critical analysis. Part history lesson.
I love it because I was left with a ton of things to think about within myself. There's also not a prescriptive answer. There's not an empirical rubric to give a pass/fail too.
It is not a purity test. It's not transactional. It's not simple. It's relational, subjective, and evolving.
It's messy and complicated and terrible and beautiful.
Just like the human experience.
at the top is a helluva swing at examining what we should do about the relationship between art we love (in all form and genre) & artist & our consumption of it in context of artists (overwhelmingly mostly men) that end up doing horrible things are could righteously be called gigantic pieces of sh+t... they are, monsters.
This is a topic that I've talked with friends about and never landing anywhere near anything that resembled a satisfying answer.
I feel like this could be 10,000 page book easily. Because this book is so much more than a take down of these people or a simple guide to rationalization. It's an open invitation to consider how your consumption of art can be a mirror into who you are. Not as a "we" or "us" that resents a broader group, culture, or society. But as individuals.
you are taken through a series of analyses and reflections that invite you to reflect on the intersection of the art that is being consumed, the artist's biography AND your own biography, not the idealic, sanitized version, the real, raw, warts and all version. The whole story - stains and all.
you're also invited to think broadly about the role of societal norms & expectations, pressures of late-stage capitalistic systems, and morals and virtues that are constantly evolving. How do they contribute to your own definition of self? How does art help inform that definition? How are your own beliefs & behaviors influenced by, caused by, supported by, identified with all of those?
Part philosophy. Part critical analysis. Part history lesson.
I love it because I was left with a ton of things to think about within myself. There's also not a prescriptive answer. There's not an empirical rubric to give a pass/fail too.
It is not a purity test. It's not transactional. It's not simple. It's relational, subjective, and evolving.
It's messy and complicated and terrible and beautiful.
Just like the human experience.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Adult/minor relationship, Misogyny, Rape, Domestic abuse, and Physical abuse
Moderate: Antisemitism, Addiction, Alcoholism, and Sexual harassment
This book examines dark, horrible behavior by people who caused a lot of harm to others sometimes with extreme violence. It is not presented in a way that is gratuitous or dramatized or dwell on them. It states supported facts plainly - which can be difficult to hear / read but is critical to the understanding the plain context of the intent of the book.larajgriff1's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
reflective
slow-paced
3.0
Unfortunately my expectations and hopes for this book were vastly different than what I experienced. I wanted a more broad view of how "monstrous" artists affect their fandom and what the group as a whole or individually moves forward. This book is much more personal to the writer and more of a memoir of her life and how she relates to different artists than the effect of their actions on the world.
However, I cannot fault the author for the book not being what I hoped. It is written very well and does make some good points about how these moments and artists affect us. Though in the middle of the book she seems to be "existential crisis-ing" in circles and it doesn't feel like there is momentum again until the last few chapters.
However, I cannot fault the author for the book not being what I hoped. It is written very well and does make some good points about how these moments and artists affect us. Though in the middle of the book she seems to be "existential crisis-ing" in circles and it doesn't feel like there is momentum again until the last few chapters.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Physical abuse, Alcohol, Alcoholism, Violence, Sexual violence, Suicide, Racism, Abandonment, Addiction, Adult/minor relationship, Death, Death of parent, Pregnancy, Abortion, Misogyny, Sexism, Sexual content, Antisemitism, Rape, Transphobia, Sexual harassment, Sexual assault, Religious bigotry, Pedophilia, Child abuse, Domestic abuse, Drug abuse, Emotional abuse, and Toxic relationship
this is a book about people who do terrible things. It is hard to avoid anything, but I did skip a full chapter because I was so uncomfortable with the crimes of an artist.kaiolenatac's review against another edition
informative
reflective
medium-paced
4.0
I overall enjoyed this memoir/narrative essay. Her conversations on Nobokov, Miles Davis, Woody Allen, and Rosemary's Baby particularly impressed me, sharing her anecdotes of being a fan or even just an enjoyer of these artists, etc., and coping with their biographies being "monstrous." Sparked thoughts and reflection on my own experiences with the media I interact with and love.
However, I did not think the two main discussions (being about consuming monstrous media vs. being a creator and avoiding monstrosity) were very cohesive and often became disinterested or unfocused because of said incoherence.
I see myself referencing her reflections in future conversations and papers of mine and am generally pleased with the book.
However, I did not think the two main discussions (being about consuming monstrous media vs. being a creator and avoiding monstrosity) were very cohesive and often became disinterested or unfocused because of said incoherence.
I see myself referencing her reflections in future conversations and papers of mine and am generally pleased with the book.
Content Warnings
Moderate: Sexual harassment
Minor: Addiction
probablyshannon's review against another edition
challenging
dark
informative
reflective
medium-paced
4.0
Content Warnings
Minor: Adult/minor relationship, Chronic illness, Drug use, Infidelity, Abandonment, Alcohol, Alcoholism, Death of parent, Mental illness, Addiction, Drug abuse, Gun violence, Sexism, and Sexual assault