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3.79 AVERAGE
3.79 AVERAGE
I had high hopes for this book— it started out strong but over time it tapered off a little in my opinion.
Read it again!
Page 39:
"What lurks in our heart - our role in corrupting this world, the litany of ways in which our own sins have contributed to the heartbreak we're surrounded by, all those times we hardened our heart and kept right on walking, ignoring the cry of someone in need."
"The more you become a person of peace and justice and worship and generosity, the more actively you participate now in ordering and working to bring about God's kind of world..."
Page 62:
"Jesus invites us, in this life, in this broken, beautiful world, to experience the life of heaven now. He insisted over and over that God's peace, joy and love are currently available to us, exactly as we are."
Page 79:
"There are all kinds of ways to resist and reject all that is good and true and beautiful and human now, in this life,m and so we can only assume we can do the same in the next."
Page 117:
"God is that loving. If we want isolation, despair and the right to be our own god, God graciously grants us that option. If we insist on using our God-given power and strength to make the world in our image, God allows us that freedom; we have the kind of license to that. If we want nothing to do with light, hope, love, grace, and peace, God respects that desire on our part, and we are given a life free from any of those realities. The more we want nothing to do with all God is, the more distance and space are created. If we want nothing to do with love, we are given a reality free from love. If, however, we crave light, we're drawn to truth, we're desperate for grace, we've come to the end of our plots and schemes and want someone else's path, God gives us what we want. If we have this sense that we've wandered far from home, and we want to return, God is there, standing in the driveway, arms open, ready to invite us in. If we thirst for shalom, and we long for the peace that transcends all understanding, God doesn't just give, they're poured out on us, lavished, heaped, until we're overwhelmed. It's like a feast where the food and wine do not run out. These desires can start with the planting of an infinitesimally small seed deep in our heart, or a yearning for life to be better, or a gnawing sense that we're missing out, or an awareness that beyond the routine and grind of life there's something more, or the quiet hunch that this isn't all there is. It often has its birth in the most unexpected ways, arising out of our need for something we know we do not have, for someone we know we are not. And to that, that impulse, craving, yearning, longing, desire - God says yes. Yes, there is water for the thirst, food for that hunger, light for that darkness, relief for that burden. If we want hell, if we want heaven, they are ours. That's how love works. It can't be forced, manipulated, or coerced. It always leaves room for the other to decide. God says yes, we can have what we want, because love wins."
Page 39:
"What lurks in our heart - our role in corrupting this world, the litany of ways in which our own sins have contributed to the heartbreak we're surrounded by, all those times we hardened our heart and kept right on walking, ignoring the cry of someone in need."
"The more you become a person of peace and justice and worship and generosity, the more actively you participate now in ordering and working to bring about God's kind of world..."
Page 62:
"Jesus invites us, in this life, in this broken, beautiful world, to experience the life of heaven now. He insisted over and over that God's peace, joy and love are currently available to us, exactly as we are."
Page 79:
"There are all kinds of ways to resist and reject all that is good and true and beautiful and human now, in this life,m and so we can only assume we can do the same in the next."
Page 117:
"God is that loving. If we want isolation, despair and the right to be our own god, God graciously grants us that option. If we insist on using our God-given power and strength to make the world in our image, God allows us that freedom; we have the kind of license to that. If we want nothing to do with light, hope, love, grace, and peace, God respects that desire on our part, and we are given a life free from any of those realities. The more we want nothing to do with all God is, the more distance and space are created. If we want nothing to do with love, we are given a reality free from love. If, however, we crave light, we're drawn to truth, we're desperate for grace, we've come to the end of our plots and schemes and want someone else's path, God gives us what we want. If we have this sense that we've wandered far from home, and we want to return, God is there, standing in the driveway, arms open, ready to invite us in. If we thirst for shalom, and we long for the peace that transcends all understanding, God doesn't just give, they're poured out on us, lavished, heaped, until we're overwhelmed. It's like a feast where the food and wine do not run out. These desires can start with the planting of an infinitesimally small seed deep in our heart, or a yearning for life to be better, or a gnawing sense that we're missing out, or an awareness that beyond the routine and grind of life there's something more, or the quiet hunch that this isn't all there is. It often has its birth in the most unexpected ways, arising out of our need for something we know we do not have, for someone we know we are not. And to that, that impulse, craving, yearning, longing, desire - God says yes. Yes, there is water for the thirst, food for that hunger, light for that darkness, relief for that burden. If we want hell, if we want heaven, they are ours. That's how love works. It can't be forced, manipulated, or coerced. It always leaves room for the other to decide. God says yes, we can have what we want, because love wins."
Super easy read - almost to a fault? I feel like some parts could have been meatier.
He makes a lot of concrete points about what the Bible *actually* says, but goes pretty quickly through points that probably deserve more attention?
He makes a lot of concrete points about what the Bible *actually* says, but goes pretty quickly through points that probably deserve more attention?
challenging
informative
reflective
fast-paced
A game changer for my faith. Rob Bell boils down complex theology into accessible chapters about the concepts of heaven and hell. Well supported and Bible sourced.
I really do like what Bell is trying to say. I still feel like there is a lot of gaps, but this is a good place for someone to start who has some questions to ask. Bell asks a lot of questions many people aren't vocalizing. The writing is a bit disorganized feeling and difficult to read.
Over all, Bell has many valid points. It's too bad that his controversial points dominate what would otherwise be an excellent book. One is left with the question, however, of why anyone would give their life for the cause of the gospel if everyone can be saved without it.
inspiring
Brilliant!
This is a fantastic book! So full of wisdom, forethought, and outside-the-box ways of looking at life. Sometimes the things Bell shares make you feel silly, because they’re SO obvious! Why hadn’t you seen this before? Such a great feeling... to see things more clearly, in an unexpected way.
I will quote this book for the rest of my life!
This is a fantastic book! So full of wisdom, forethought, and outside-the-box ways of looking at life. Sometimes the things Bell shares make you feel silly, because they’re SO obvious! Why hadn’t you seen this before? Such a great feeling... to see things more clearly, in an unexpected way.
I will quote this book for the rest of my life!
Controversial book? Nah… New stuff? Some. Old Stuff? LOTS!!!
As Bell starts the book and explains Heaven (nothing new if you read N.T. Wright's Surprised by Hope) and Hell (nothing new again if you have heard Rob Bell's sermons before.) However, what is new, is Bell talking about Hell as a place for correction, not for damnation, but instead for a chance for redemption. Believing that in the end God's love wins because God's love is stronger than any other thing in the universe, Bell believes that all people have the opportunity to reject or accept God's love even in the afterlife. I wonder if Bell has ever considered the Eastern Orthodox view of Hell in his processing? Hell in the Orthodox church is not the absence of God as it is in Protestant and Catholic theology but Hell is experienced in the presence of God.
I truly appreciate that Bell writes in his book differing theological viewpoints and though he ultimately doesn't agree with them, he shows them because they are legitimate thoughts/beliefs based off of Scripture. Bell simply doesn't think it resounds with how He has been reading Scripture. I don't blame him.
The irony of all the controversy of Bell's book is what he says in the book, "To shun, censor, or ostracize someone for holding this belief is to fail to extend grace to each other in a discussion that has had plenty of room for varied perspectives for hundreds of years now." (p.111) That's the thing, even his church website doesn't say you have to agree with Rob Bell to be a member in the church he founded. There are a variety of beliefs about Hell. We can conjecture based on Scripture but we don't fully know the mind of God on this issue. But we can try and work through what Scripture is telling us about it. Is God's love more powerful than someone's rejection of Him?
Lots of questions in this book and Bell doesn't answer all of them (thank God...) but he leaves them open for us to do the digging ourselves. Another thing I appreciate about the book is the redefinition of words that have become so commonplace for us today that we take it for granted what they mean. Without getting into them the use of the words Aion (or eternal life), Hades, Gehenna (Hell?), Aion Kolazo (a period of pruning), etc. just to name a few that can be helpful when interpreting the very difficult passages.
I love that Bell says this, "The point then, as it is now, is Jesus. The divine in flesh and blood. He's where the life is." (p.129) Christianity as Bell explains is not a set of doctrinal statements, but "When we say yes to God, when we open ourselves to Jesus's [sic] living, giving act on the cross, we enter into a way of life. He is the source, the strength, the example, and the assurance that this pattern of death and rebirth is the way into the only kind of life that actually sustains and inspires." (p.136)
That's the kind of life I desire to live, one that is sustainable (not a faith that is about highs and lows all the time) and inspires others.
Earlier in the book Bell points out that those who talk about heaven after death don't do very much on this side to help out with the suffering of this world, and those who talk about heaven here on earth don't think very much about heaven after we die. And one criticism that I find very poignant is, "This is why Christians who talk the most about going to heaven while every body else goes to hell don't throw very good parties." (p.179) I mean, haven’t you been to those sour Christian parties?
Quite a while ago I had been reading a book about different saints in Christian history, and Origen was one of them. As soon as I read Bell's book it made me think about Origen's writings. I know what people may say about this.... Jeff... Origen was considered a heretic.... yes but Origen is credited with much help to Christian theology. And very recently, Pope Benedict XVI had very positive things to say about Origen and how he should be respected by Christians. You can read it on this website http://www.zenit.org/article-19466?l=english . And really... heretic? Sure, some of Origen's stuff was a little out there...but nevertheless He is a follower of Christ as best as he understood. And that’s the thing, Bell is pointing us to read what the early Church Fathers ( who are not perfect…I know, but give an indication of what the early Church was processing) and a lot of the early Church actually had beliefs about some kind of ultimate reconciliation of all people to God. Why?
All that to say don't throw out what Bell is saying just because you disagree with him. he's okay with you disagreeing with him, he just wants people to start having good conversations about these issues without making "glib" statements. As someone from an Eastern branch of Evangelical Christianity, this book made me say AMEN! time and time again, though I don't agree with Bell on all of his thoughts... he's asking good questions, and doing it in a way that is WITHIN the broad range of Christian tradition.
This may not be something you grew up with or have been learning in your church now, but other Christians throughout the centuries have believed other things than you...does that make them less Christian? Does that mean that they go to "hell" as you understand it because they don't agree with you? I am glad for the amount of conversation this book is causing... And I hope we can do it in a spirit of sharing/dialogue rather than stark condemnation before one has even read what they are condemning. Because, in the end you may surprisingly agree completely with the very thing that you had condemned (but didn’t take the time to read).
For fun here’s a video clip of Rob Bell stating his theological beliefs, but the last line made me laugh… (watch this clip of Rob Bell Comes Clean)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfboAzw-XGU
I hope we stop calling each other heretics and start to dialogue with one another so that we can be more solid followers of Jesus. Shalom!
As Bell starts the book and explains Heaven (nothing new if you read N.T. Wright's Surprised by Hope) and Hell (nothing new again if you have heard Rob Bell's sermons before.) However, what is new, is Bell talking about Hell as a place for correction, not for damnation, but instead for a chance for redemption. Believing that in the end God's love wins because God's love is stronger than any other thing in the universe, Bell believes that all people have the opportunity to reject or accept God's love even in the afterlife. I wonder if Bell has ever considered the Eastern Orthodox view of Hell in his processing? Hell in the Orthodox church is not the absence of God as it is in Protestant and Catholic theology but Hell is experienced in the presence of God.
I truly appreciate that Bell writes in his book differing theological viewpoints and though he ultimately doesn't agree with them, he shows them because they are legitimate thoughts/beliefs based off of Scripture. Bell simply doesn't think it resounds with how He has been reading Scripture. I don't blame him.
The irony of all the controversy of Bell's book is what he says in the book, "To shun, censor, or ostracize someone for holding this belief is to fail to extend grace to each other in a discussion that has had plenty of room for varied perspectives for hundreds of years now." (p.111) That's the thing, even his church website doesn't say you have to agree with Rob Bell to be a member in the church he founded. There are a variety of beliefs about Hell. We can conjecture based on Scripture but we don't fully know the mind of God on this issue. But we can try and work through what Scripture is telling us about it. Is God's love more powerful than someone's rejection of Him?
Lots of questions in this book and Bell doesn't answer all of them (thank God...) but he leaves them open for us to do the digging ourselves. Another thing I appreciate about the book is the redefinition of words that have become so commonplace for us today that we take it for granted what they mean. Without getting into them the use of the words Aion (or eternal life), Hades, Gehenna (Hell?), Aion Kolazo (a period of pruning), etc. just to name a few that can be helpful when interpreting the very difficult passages.
I love that Bell says this, "The point then, as it is now, is Jesus. The divine in flesh and blood. He's where the life is." (p.129) Christianity as Bell explains is not a set of doctrinal statements, but "When we say yes to God, when we open ourselves to Jesus's [sic] living, giving act on the cross, we enter into a way of life. He is the source, the strength, the example, and the assurance that this pattern of death and rebirth is the way into the only kind of life that actually sustains and inspires." (p.136)
That's the kind of life I desire to live, one that is sustainable (not a faith that is about highs and lows all the time) and inspires others.
Earlier in the book Bell points out that those who talk about heaven after death don't do very much on this side to help out with the suffering of this world, and those who talk about heaven here on earth don't think very much about heaven after we die. And one criticism that I find very poignant is, "This is why Christians who talk the most about going to heaven while every body else goes to hell don't throw very good parties." (p.179) I mean, haven’t you been to those sour Christian parties?
Quite a while ago I had been reading a book about different saints in Christian history, and Origen was one of them. As soon as I read Bell's book it made me think about Origen's writings. I know what people may say about this.... Jeff... Origen was considered a heretic.... yes but Origen is credited with much help to Christian theology. And very recently, Pope Benedict XVI had very positive things to say about Origen and how he should be respected by Christians. You can read it on this website http://www.zenit.org/article-19466?l=english . And really... heretic? Sure, some of Origen's stuff was a little out there...but nevertheless He is a follower of Christ as best as he understood. And that’s the thing, Bell is pointing us to read what the early Church Fathers ( who are not perfect…I know, but give an indication of what the early Church was processing) and a lot of the early Church actually had beliefs about some kind of ultimate reconciliation of all people to God. Why?
All that to say don't throw out what Bell is saying just because you disagree with him. he's okay with you disagreeing with him, he just wants people to start having good conversations about these issues without making "glib" statements. As someone from an Eastern branch of Evangelical Christianity, this book made me say AMEN! time and time again, though I don't agree with Bell on all of his thoughts... he's asking good questions, and doing it in a way that is WITHIN the broad range of Christian tradition.
This may not be something you grew up with or have been learning in your church now, but other Christians throughout the centuries have believed other things than you...does that make them less Christian? Does that mean that they go to "hell" as you understand it because they don't agree with you? I am glad for the amount of conversation this book is causing... And I hope we can do it in a spirit of sharing/dialogue rather than stark condemnation before one has even read what they are condemning. Because, in the end you may surprisingly agree completely with the very thing that you had condemned (but didn’t take the time to read).
For fun here’s a video clip of Rob Bell stating his theological beliefs, but the last line made me laugh… (watch this clip of Rob Bell Comes Clean)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfboAzw-XGU
I hope we stop calling each other heretics and start to dialogue with one another so that we can be more solid followers of Jesus. Shalom!
I get why a lot of evangelicals call him and the content of this book "liberal" or "heretic" or "promoting universalism", but I realize sometimes our faith puts too much emphasis on one part: that we are all sinful, totally depraved, and deserve hell. That might be true, but it is also often weaponized into a way of basically telling people outside of our righteous group that they are wrong and we are right and they need to confess sin and believe in Jesus.
Rob Bell try to raise a point of cleaning it up, asking us to remember grace beyond measure, and God's unfailing love, desiring reconciliation and restoration of all creatures. In the end, love wins, despite our iniquity. It is the point he tries to hammer, especially to people who think they are too sinful and people who think they are the one who deserve heaven, two polarizinf point of view that has shaped our society, the "heathens" and the "faithfuls".
In the end, God's love is to all of us for the taking, so are we willing to live in the presence of Lord, on earth as it is in heaven, restored and loved beyond humanly measure?
Rob Bell try to raise a point of cleaning it up, asking us to remember grace beyond measure, and God's unfailing love, desiring reconciliation and restoration of all creatures. In the end, love wins, despite our iniquity. It is the point he tries to hammer, especially to people who think they are too sinful and people who think they are the one who deserve heaven, two polarizinf point of view that has shaped our society, the "heathens" and the "faithfuls".
In the end, God's love is to all of us for the taking, so are we willing to live in the presence of Lord, on earth as it is in heaven, restored and loved beyond humanly measure?