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stepriot's review against another edition
1.0
I was going to give this one a 4 because it kept my attention and made me think. The more i thought, however, the more the more it felt simply racist. In 1974, you can't let the asians in because they breed too much and will cause much harm to the white man. The fact that the capital was tied to the Spartans should have been the loud enough dog whistle, but I gave the story the benefit of the doubt. Watching imperialism being glorified was interesting, as it's such a foreign idea now. I tried to see the book in that context and was hoping for some redemptive arc to their strategies. But it never came. "The Final" solution was even dropped. I don't read much older sci-fi, but I wanted to see some of its roots. I really liked the aliens, and by the end, I was rooting for them.
willand90's review against another edition
adventurous
mysterious
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
4.0
krystaldelusion's review against another edition
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
5.0
swegory_grindle's review
adventurous
challenging
mysterious
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
4.0
picklous's review
mysterious
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
4.0
desh951's review against another edition
3.0
Entertaining read. Interesting story line but not as punchy or gripping as I would’ve liked.
pronkbaggins's review against another edition
4.0
4.0/5.0 stars
I wanted to be the kind of person that rated this 5 stars because I want to agree with all the science fiction aficionados out there. This book came HIGHLY recommended in the science fiction review circles. I did enjoy it, but there were some parts that were tedious to read. I felt like the aliens were cool, but I also had to suspend my belief for a lot of their traits / evolution. Not saying I could do better if I tried to write something that had not been done before.
I know a lot of the tropes were difficult to read, like the prim and proper / puritan views of the characters (especially the only woman, who allegedly is an anthropologist), the religious practices that mirrored current day thousands of years from now, the references to political figures from this era, and the unbelievable thought that people thousands of years from now would be obsessed with today's culture to the point where they force their crew to learn Cossack dances....it was a little much. However, the most difficult part for me was connecting with the characters. They felt so bland. That may just be me, who knows. Maybe I need cheap thrills instead of something deeper. I think I just expected more.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of history / politics, so that may contribute to why I was either bored or not as happy with the constant "throwbacks" to current times.
Also, REALLY wish I did not get the version with the illustrated cover (not the one pictured) showing the aliens. I wanted it to be more of a mystery and I could not get the artist's rendition out of my head even though they were described a little differently.
Not sure if I'll pick up the second one. I need to touch on a few other highly recommended sci-fi books before deciding.
I wanted to be the kind of person that rated this 5 stars because I want to agree with all the science fiction aficionados out there. This book came HIGHLY recommended in the science fiction review circles. I did enjoy it, but there were some parts that were tedious to read. I felt like the aliens were cool, but I also had to suspend my belief for a lot of their traits / evolution. Not saying I could do better if I tried to write something that had not been done before.
I know a lot of the tropes were difficult to read, like the prim and proper / puritan views of the characters (especially the only woman, who allegedly is an anthropologist), the religious practices that mirrored current day thousands of years from now, the references to political figures from this era, and the unbelievable thought that people thousands of years from now would be obsessed with today's culture to the point where they force their crew to learn Cossack dances....it was a little much. However, the most difficult part for me was connecting with the characters. They felt so bland. That may just be me, who knows. Maybe I need cheap thrills instead of something deeper. I think I just expected more.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of history / politics, so that may contribute to why I was either bored or not as happy with the constant "throwbacks" to current times.
Also, REALLY wish I did not get the version with the illustrated cover (not the one pictured) showing the aliens. I wanted it to be more of a mystery and I could not get the artist's rendition out of my head even though they were described a little differently.
Not sure if I'll pick up the second one. I need to touch on a few other highly recommended sci-fi books before deciding.
buttcord's review
adventurous
mysterious
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
5.0
belphegor's review against another edition
adventurous
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
4.0
chamomiledaydreams's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
There is a lot happening in this book. Right off the bat, I think it's interesting that we get a first contact story set so far in the future. Humans have been exploring space for nearly 1,000 years, and this is their first encounter with another sentient species. It's also strange how old-fashioned 31st-century society feels, with courts and royalty and outdated assumptions about women. That really bothered me, to be honest: The cast of characters is so large that the book features a "dramatis personae" page, yet only one character (not including the genderfluid aliens) is a woman. I don't like imagining a future where people are still pigeonholed into categories and life rolls based on their assigned gender at birth.
Not to mention, this one (1) female character starts off with a fascinating backstory (fresh out of college, caught in the midst of a civil war, imprisoned and deeply traumatized) only to have a character arc that emphasizes her kind and nurturing side and to end up in a politically advantageous marriage that other characters assumed would happen from the very beginning. I understand that, if Sally is attracted to men, there's a good chance she'll find one she likes on board the ship. But why did her uncle zero in on Rod Blaine as her love interest? Was it because of his status? The assumptions about their engagement irked me, and I hated seeing how uncomfortable it made Sally. She seemed enthusiastic about the match, until she realized how many people expected it from her. Did she have agency, or was her destiny set in stone from the start?
Another character whose depiction upsets me is the one (1) explicitly non-white character who is a greedy and corrupt businessman/criminal. The future that Niven and Pournelle imagine is dominated by cishetallo white men, and all but one of the colonies we hear about are based on European or American towns (New Chicago, New Scotland, Sparta, and St. Ekaterina, compared to a single, brief reference to a place called New Meiji). Ursula K. Le Guin has a quote about science fiction being descriptive, rather than predictive. In other words, SF authors aren't saying, "This is what the future will be like in 1,000 years." Instead, they are throwing their own thoughts and experiences onto the page, reflecting the era in which they are writing (subconsciously or otherwise). It seems likely that Niven and Pournelle were imagining a future similar to their present, devoid of diversity and with all the prejudices of the 1970s.
I honestly don't know what to make of the Moties, however. The humans fear the potential threat that an alien species might pose, and their fears are justified within the novel by the Moties' lack of population control. Is this xenophobia? Are the authors' racist fears of white people becoming a minority being reflected on the page? (Both authors are very conservative, according to what I read online, and Larry Niven specifically has an awfully racist quote about discouraging non-white patients from seeking medical attention.)
I like the Moties' design at least, in the sense that they deviate from classic depictions of aliens as gray, lanky humanoids. The fact that they're asymmetrical is fascinating, and I like how their skills differ from those of humans. They constantly reshape materials, for example, leaving very few permanent fixtures, because their civilization long ago mined all of the usable resources on their planet. That's good writing, from a worldbuilding perspective, and it marks this novel as original and memorable.
But then, we get into the Moties' social hierarchy and learn that they have genetically engineered themselves to fall into niche roles: Browns (engineers), Mediators (diplomats), Masters (overseers) etc. If a single trans or nonbinary person had been featured in this story, I'd like to think that they would have been horrified by this biological predeterminism and would have questioned the Moties' society from the outset. But the cast of characters we have only admires the Moties' organization, skills, and efficiency (even though I think it should be a major red flag that there's an entire sub-species born to rule). Perhaps this isn't so strange to the fictional humans, because they still have monarchs and a fully fledged royal court. Even so, I question their judgement.
At any rate, I was genuinely convinced that the humans in this novel considered genetic engineering to be unethical, based on the allusions to a colony called Sauron, and I thought that the moment they realized that Moties did not naturally evolve this way over time, they would be horrified (or at the very least uneasy). After all, Sally has a whole conversation in the beginning about how civilized societies no longer evolve, because they care for all of their members and don't allow natural selection to occur. This is portrayed as a positive feature in a society, and I agree wholeheartedly. But it turns out that the humans don't mind genetic engineering (which might cross the line into eugenics at times), until they learn that the Moties have a subclass of super soldiers (which is, apparently, what Sauron is infamous for; not genetic manipulation in general, but genetic manipulation for military purposes).
My opinions on this book are all over the place, to be honest. I respect it as a work of science fiction, and I think that it provides great opportunities for analysis. However, I don't think we as readers should take anything for granted. It helps to know an author's political beliefs, so you can be wary of stories that take racist and sexist ideals for granted. But so long as this novel is engaged with critically, I think it's a worthwhile read. The aliens are well-constructed; there are bone-chilling moments when the characters are in peril; and it's difficult to say what the "right" decisions are at any given moment. It's thought-provoking and emotionally impactful at times, and it combines scientific principles with a strong narrative. 2024 also marks the novel's 50th anniversary, which makes this an exciting time to get started and have meaningful discussions. I will probably read the sequel at some point, and I'm sure that I will have more thoughts to share then.
Not to mention, this one (1) female character starts off with a fascinating backstory (fresh out of college, caught in the midst of a civil war, imprisoned and deeply traumatized) only to have a character arc that emphasizes her kind and nurturing side and to end up in a politically advantageous marriage that other characters assumed would happen from the very beginning. I understand that, if Sally is attracted to men, there's a good chance she'll find one she likes on board the ship. But why did her uncle zero in on Rod Blaine as her love interest? Was it because of his status? The assumptions about their engagement irked me, and I hated seeing how uncomfortable it made Sally. She seemed enthusiastic about the match, until she realized how many people expected it from her. Did she have agency, or was her destiny set in stone from the start?
Another character whose depiction upsets me is the one (1) explicitly non-white character who is a greedy and corrupt businessman/criminal. The future that Niven and Pournelle imagine is dominated by cishetallo white men, and all but one of the colonies we hear about are based on European or American towns (New Chicago, New Scotland, Sparta, and St. Ekaterina, compared to a single, brief reference to a place called New Meiji). Ursula K. Le Guin has a quote about science fiction being descriptive, rather than predictive. In other words, SF authors aren't saying, "This is what the future will be like in 1,000 years." Instead, they are throwing their own thoughts and experiences onto the page, reflecting the era in which they are writing (subconsciously or otherwise). It seems likely that Niven and Pournelle were imagining a future similar to their present, devoid of diversity and with all the prejudices of the 1970s.
I honestly don't know what to make of the Moties, however. The humans fear the potential threat that an alien species might pose, and their fears are justified within the novel by the Moties' lack of population control. Is this xenophobia? Are the authors' racist fears of white people becoming a minority being reflected on the page? (Both authors are very conservative, according to what I read online, and Larry Niven specifically has an awfully racist quote about discouraging non-white patients from seeking medical attention.)
I like the Moties' design at least, in the sense that they deviate from classic depictions of aliens as gray, lanky humanoids. The fact that they're asymmetrical is fascinating, and I like how their skills differ from those of humans. They constantly reshape materials, for example, leaving very few permanent fixtures, because their civilization long ago mined all of the usable resources on their planet. That's good writing, from a worldbuilding perspective, and it marks this novel as original and memorable.
But then, we get into the Moties' social hierarchy and learn that they have genetically engineered themselves to fall into niche roles: Browns (engineers), Mediators (diplomats), Masters (overseers) etc. If a single trans or nonbinary person had been featured in this story, I'd like to think that they would have been horrified by this biological predeterminism and would have questioned the Moties' society from the outset. But the cast of characters we have only admires the Moties' organization, skills, and efficiency (even though I think it should be a major red flag that there's an entire sub-species born to rule). Perhaps this isn't so strange to the fictional humans, because they still have monarchs and a fully fledged royal court. Even so, I question their judgement.
At any rate, I was genuinely convinced that the humans in this novel considered genetic engineering to be unethical, based on the allusions to a colony called Sauron, and I thought that the moment they realized that Moties did not naturally evolve this way over time, they would be horrified (or at the very least uneasy). After all, Sally has a whole conversation in the beginning about how civilized societies no longer evolve, because they care for all of their members and don't allow natural selection to occur. This is portrayed as a positive feature in a society, and I agree wholeheartedly. But it turns out that the humans don't mind genetic engineering (which might cross the line into eugenics at times), until they learn that the Moties have a subclass of super soldiers (which is, apparently, what Sauron is infamous for; not genetic manipulation in general, but genetic manipulation for military purposes).
My opinions on this book are all over the place, to be honest. I respect it as a work of science fiction, and I think that it provides great opportunities for analysis. However, I don't think we as readers should take anything for granted. It helps to know an author's political beliefs, so you can be wary of stories that take racist and sexist ideals for granted. But so long as this novel is engaged with critically, I think it's a worthwhile read. The aliens are well-constructed; there are bone-chilling moments when the characters are in peril; and it's difficult to say what the "right" decisions are at any given moment. It's thought-provoking and emotionally impactful at times, and it combines scientific principles with a strong narrative. 2024 also marks the novel's 50th anniversary, which makes this an exciting time to get started and have meaningful discussions. I will probably read the sequel at some point, and I'm sure that I will have more thoughts to share then.