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marxxx's review
adventurous
challenging
dark
mysterious
reflective
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
Content Warnings
Graphic: Sexism, Torture, Sexual content, Homophobia, Death, Suicide, Blood, Religious bigotry, Confinement, and Animal cruelty
Minor: Cannibalism and Excrement
erebus53's review against another edition
challenging
dark
funny
informative
mysterious
sad
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.5
I read this as book club read (specifically the two-monthly thick book). It was a book that I had heard the name of and I had heard was a "classic" but I really had no idea what I was getting myself in for.
This is a book that is.. weighty.. and verbose. It is full of smatterings of French, Latin, Italian Arabic and German (deftly and comprehendibly narrated in the Audiobook!) that don't have any subtitles or footnotes, so unless your Latin is top notch, it is advisable to arm yourself with a companion or glossary.
The story is historical drama meets murder mystery ..less cozy more cloistered. (All the monk stuff reminded me of reading Anathem.. though it is a vastly different book.) The inquisitors and the politics crafted a labyrinthine theoretical minefield that made me wonder how people could ever seek truth in a place where philosophy could be so dangerous. Power, control, and orthodoxy, and their interaction with piety, truth, honesty and love, are in constant antagonism.
Through this all is strung a lot of dark humour. Holmes-like deduction baffles people who are unaware of the underlying logic, and intellect is lauded, while at the same time it recurs that truth is often uttered by the foolish or innocent who don't have the guile to hold their tongues. Major theological arguments about charity and poverty (is it ethical for the church to own riches?), and the use of humour to convince the commoners to follow a righteous path (because surely if they aren't taking their Faith seriously, then they are destined for ruin), are battled over many chapters. A lot of dry sarcasm is employed in ironic exploration of the values of humour.
As people seem to be dropping dead in Shakespearean abundance, there is some discussion of the use of herbs and healing things for making poisons. The use of hallucinatory herbs is in there, and I felt less in over my head when the monks were talking about herbs, of which I had previous knowledge. Along with hallucinations, visions and dreams there are a lot of demonic descriptions, some of which come from Classical mythology. All that time I spent reading the Revelation of John and Rick Riordan's Demigods was not wasted, as some of those slightly more obscure monsters were also familiar to me. I was reallly impressed with the way the narrator related a ridiculous fever-dream / prophesy(?) filled with historical and biblical characters and familiar characters from the story, gabbling at a fairly constant patter. Comedic indeed!
Depictions of women in this book are ... 12th century monastic misogyny? The main character falls for someone and thinks it's love despite never having had a conversation with the object of his desire. Homosexual relationships are telegraphed quite early in the peace and decried by the monks. Not every coupling in the story (none of which are particularly explicit, save maybe one(?)) is based in mutual consent, many being for payment or favours. Demonic visions get a bit bawdy and grotesque, as does the talk of bodily fluids.
I honestly think I would have never finished this if I was attempting to read it with my eyeballs, not just because I can only read in half-hour increments due to my eye injury, but just because it's lofty and dense and full of lengthy Latin quotes from other texts that I would have laboured over rather than getting an approximate understanding of. My Latin isn't super great, but it's not non-existent either.
I think the lumbering pace of the book knocks a star off. The mystery of it was not too taxing to figure out, and it was funny, but I won't be hustling to re-read it any time soon.
This is a book that is.. weighty.. and verbose. It is full of smatterings of French, Latin, Italian Arabic and German (deftly and comprehendibly narrated in the Audiobook!) that don't have any subtitles or footnotes, so unless your Latin is top notch, it is advisable to arm yourself with a companion or glossary.
The story is historical drama meets murder mystery ..less cozy more cloistered. (All the monk stuff reminded me of reading Anathem.. though it is a vastly different book.) The inquisitors and the politics crafted a labyrinthine theoretical minefield that made me wonder how people could ever seek truth in a place where philosophy could be so dangerous. Power, control, and orthodoxy, and their interaction with piety, truth, honesty and love, are in constant antagonism.
Through this all is strung a lot of dark humour. Holmes-like deduction baffles people who are unaware of the underlying logic, and intellect is lauded, while at the same time it recurs that truth is often uttered by the foolish or innocent who don't have the guile to hold their tongues. Major theological arguments about charity and poverty (is it ethical for the church to own riches?), and the use of humour to convince the commoners to follow a righteous path (because surely if they aren't taking their Faith seriously, then they are destined for ruin), are battled over many chapters. A lot of dry sarcasm is employed in ironic exploration of the values of humour.
As people seem to be dropping dead in Shakespearean abundance, there is some discussion of the use of herbs and healing things for making poisons. The use of hallucinatory herbs is in there, and I felt less in over my head when the monks were talking about herbs, of which I had previous knowledge. Along with hallucinations, visions and dreams there are a lot of demonic descriptions, some of which come from Classical mythology. All that time I spent reading the Revelation of John and Rick Riordan's Demigods was not wasted, as some of those slightly more obscure monsters were also familiar to me. I was reallly impressed with the way the narrator related a ridiculous fever-dream / prophesy(?) filled with historical and biblical characters and familiar characters from the story, gabbling at a fairly constant patter. Comedic indeed!
Depictions of women in this book are ... 12th century monastic misogyny? The main character falls for someone and thinks it's love despite never having had a conversation with the object of his desire. Homosexual relationships are telegraphed quite early in the peace and decried by the monks. Not every coupling in the story (none of which are particularly explicit, save maybe one(?)) is based in mutual consent, many being for payment or favours. Demonic visions get a bit bawdy and grotesque, as does the talk of bodily fluids.
I honestly think I would have never finished this if I was attempting to read it with my eyeballs, not just because I can only read in half-hour increments due to my eye injury, but just because it's lofty and dense and full of lengthy Latin quotes from other texts that I would have laboured over rather than getting an approximate understanding of. My Latin isn't super great, but it's not non-existent either.
I think the lumbering pace of the book knocks a star off. The mystery of it was not too taxing to figure out, and it was funny, but I won't be hustling to re-read it any time soon.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Ableism, Misogyny, Murder, Physical abuse, Religious bigotry, Suicide, Torture, Violence, Vomit, Animal death, Body horror, Bullying, Drug abuse, Drug use, Homophobia, Infidelity, Self harm, Sexism, Sexual content, Xenophobia, Animal cruelty, Blood, Confinement, Cursing, Death, Emotional abuse, Excrement, Fire/Fire injury, Gaslighting, Genocide, Gore, Grief, Injury/Injury detail, Mental illness, Outing, Sexual violence, Suicidal thoughts, Suicide attempt, and War
lorechka's review against another edition
challenging
dark
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.5
I want to stab Umberto Eco.
Content Warnings
Minor: Animal cruelty, Suicide, Misogyny, Religious bigotry, and Homophobia
seanml's review
challenging
dark
informative
mysterious
reflective
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
A very well-written story, centered on a mysterious death at a Catholic abbey in the 1320s, and the two monks that set to uncover the truth. Despite its length, I thought this book was very well written (Or perhaps, translated since it was originally published in Italian) and goes by quickly. However, if one half of this book is mystery, the other half (And I’m not exaggerating: 50% of the narrative at least) is all theological discussion in the setting of medieval Italy. If that doesn’t sound very interesting to you, brace yourself. And even if that does sound interesting, brace yourself even further because with medieval Abrahamic religion comes intense, indoctrinated misogyny. Is it culturally and historically, accurate? Perhaps. Does the author actually believe in the evil of women? Luckily, no. Nevertheless you’ll encounter multiple sections where monks preach the evils of womanhood, all while the abbey is beset by lies and murder. But as our main characters trudge on, they must ask: Where is the goodness of their God? Where is the justice in His cosmic plan? The answer becomes less and less confident. Equal parts mystery, equal parts Catholic history, equal parts theological skepticism, I thought this was a captivating story. 8/10.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Misogyny and Sexism
Moderate: Classism, Adult/minor relationship, Blood, Homophobia, Murder, Death, Outing, Religious bigotry, and Suicide
Minor: Animal cruelty, Fire/Fire injury, Torture, Violence, Sexual content, Animal death, Antisemitism, Dementia, Incest, Confinement, Islamophobia, Rape, Vomit, Alcohol, and Sexual assault
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