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marxxx's review
adventurous
challenging
dark
mysterious
reflective
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
Content Warnings
Graphic: Sexism, Torture, Sexual content, Homophobia, Death, Suicide, Blood, Religious bigotry, Confinement, and Animal cruelty
Minor: Cannibalism and Excrement
iirreeaadd's review
challenging
dark
mysterious
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
3.5
This book is long and overwritten. I found myself skimming or simply skipping chunks of this book that were basically long lists of things that were not relevant to the plot of the book at all. Despite this, I found the core murder mystery plot of the book to be engrossing, as well as the reasons for it. I was able to finish the book fairly quickly and felt engaged throughout as I wanted to know what happens next. It's definitely a bit dense at points but overall I found it a good read.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Religious bigotry, Classism, Sexism, Violence, Torture, Murder, Misogyny, and Blood
Moderate: Sexual content, Suicide, Islamophobia, Antisemitism, Colonisation, and Homophobia
erebus53's review against another edition
challenging
dark
funny
informative
mysterious
sad
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.5
I read this as book club read (specifically the two-monthly thick book). It was a book that I had heard the name of and I had heard was a "classic" but I really had no idea what I was getting myself in for.
This is a book that is.. weighty.. and verbose. It is full of smatterings of French, Latin, Italian Arabic and German (deftly and comprehendibly narrated in the Audiobook!) that don't have any subtitles or footnotes, so unless your Latin is top notch, it is advisable to arm yourself with a companion or glossary.
The story is historical drama meets murder mystery ..less cozy more cloistered. (All the monk stuff reminded me of reading Anathem.. though it is a vastly different book.) The inquisitors and the politics crafted a labyrinthine theoretical minefield that made me wonder how people could ever seek truth in a place where philosophy could be so dangerous. Power, control, and orthodoxy, and their interaction with piety, truth, honesty and love, are in constant antagonism.
Through this all is strung a lot of dark humour. Holmes-like deduction baffles people who are unaware of the underlying logic, and intellect is lauded, while at the same time it recurs that truth is often uttered by the foolish or innocent who don't have the guile to hold their tongues. Major theological arguments about charity and poverty (is it ethical for the church to own riches?), and the use of humour to convince the commoners to follow a righteous path (because surely if they aren't taking their Faith seriously, then they are destined for ruin), are battled over many chapters. A lot of dry sarcasm is employed in ironic exploration of the values of humour.
As people seem to be dropping dead in Shakespearean abundance, there is some discussion of the use of herbs and healing things for making poisons. The use of hallucinatory herbs is in there, and I felt less in over my head when the monks were talking about herbs, of which I had previous knowledge. Along with hallucinations, visions and dreams there are a lot of demonic descriptions, some of which come from Classical mythology. All that time I spent reading the Revelation of John and Rick Riordan's Demigods was not wasted, as some of those slightly more obscure monsters were also familiar to me. I was reallly impressed with the way the narrator related a ridiculous fever-dream / prophesy(?) filled with historical and biblical characters and familiar characters from the story, gabbling at a fairly constant patter. Comedic indeed!
Depictions of women in this book are ... 12th century monastic misogyny? The main character falls for someone and thinks it's love despite never having had a conversation with the object of his desire. Homosexual relationships are telegraphed quite early in the peace and decried by the monks. Not every coupling in the story (none of which are particularly explicit, save maybe one(?)) is based in mutual consent, many being for payment or favours. Demonic visions get a bit bawdy and grotesque, as does the talk of bodily fluids.
I honestly think I would have never finished this if I was attempting to read it with my eyeballs, not just because I can only read in half-hour increments due to my eye injury, but just because it's lofty and dense and full of lengthy Latin quotes from other texts that I would have laboured over rather than getting an approximate understanding of. My Latin isn't super great, but it's not non-existent either.
I think the lumbering pace of the book knocks a star off. The mystery of it was not too taxing to figure out, and it was funny, but I won't be hustling to re-read it any time soon.
This is a book that is.. weighty.. and verbose. It is full of smatterings of French, Latin, Italian Arabic and German (deftly and comprehendibly narrated in the Audiobook!) that don't have any subtitles or footnotes, so unless your Latin is top notch, it is advisable to arm yourself with a companion or glossary.
The story is historical drama meets murder mystery ..less cozy more cloistered. (All the monk stuff reminded me of reading Anathem.. though it is a vastly different book.) The inquisitors and the politics crafted a labyrinthine theoretical minefield that made me wonder how people could ever seek truth in a place where philosophy could be so dangerous. Power, control, and orthodoxy, and their interaction with piety, truth, honesty and love, are in constant antagonism.
Through this all is strung a lot of dark humour. Holmes-like deduction baffles people who are unaware of the underlying logic, and intellect is lauded, while at the same time it recurs that truth is often uttered by the foolish or innocent who don't have the guile to hold their tongues. Major theological arguments about charity and poverty (is it ethical for the church to own riches?), and the use of humour to convince the commoners to follow a righteous path (because surely if they aren't taking their Faith seriously, then they are destined for ruin), are battled over many chapters. A lot of dry sarcasm is employed in ironic exploration of the values of humour.
As people seem to be dropping dead in Shakespearean abundance, there is some discussion of the use of herbs and healing things for making poisons. The use of hallucinatory herbs is in there, and I felt less in over my head when the monks were talking about herbs, of which I had previous knowledge. Along with hallucinations, visions and dreams there are a lot of demonic descriptions, some of which come from Classical mythology. All that time I spent reading the Revelation of John and Rick Riordan's Demigods was not wasted, as some of those slightly more obscure monsters were also familiar to me. I was reallly impressed with the way the narrator related a ridiculous fever-dream / prophesy(?) filled with historical and biblical characters and familiar characters from the story, gabbling at a fairly constant patter. Comedic indeed!
Depictions of women in this book are ... 12th century monastic misogyny? The main character falls for someone and thinks it's love despite never having had a conversation with the object of his desire. Homosexual relationships are telegraphed quite early in the peace and decried by the monks. Not every coupling in the story (none of which are particularly explicit, save maybe one(?)) is based in mutual consent, many being for payment or favours. Demonic visions get a bit bawdy and grotesque, as does the talk of bodily fluids.
I honestly think I would have never finished this if I was attempting to read it with my eyeballs, not just because I can only read in half-hour increments due to my eye injury, but just because it's lofty and dense and full of lengthy Latin quotes from other texts that I would have laboured over rather than getting an approximate understanding of. My Latin isn't super great, but it's not non-existent either.
I think the lumbering pace of the book knocks a star off. The mystery of it was not too taxing to figure out, and it was funny, but I won't be hustling to re-read it any time soon.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Ableism, Misogyny, Murder, Physical abuse, Religious bigotry, Suicide, Torture, Violence, Vomit, Animal death, Body horror, Bullying, Drug abuse, Drug use, Homophobia, Infidelity, Self harm, Sexism, Sexual content, Xenophobia, Animal cruelty, Blood, Confinement, Cursing, Death, Emotional abuse, Excrement, Fire/Fire injury, Gaslighting, Genocide, Gore, Grief, Injury/Injury detail, Mental illness, Outing, Sexual violence, Suicidal thoughts, Suicide attempt, and War
emmonsannae's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
mysterious
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
5.0
I’m going to miss being able to lose myself in this book! At once a thrilling example and a brilliant subversion of the mystery novel, this story is just as much of a labyrinth as the library at its center. And it is magnificently researched! The medieval world is so painstakingly constructed that we are able to live in the abbey with the characters. (Because it is so unflinching in depicting the past using the same wording as its sources, there is some brutal content especially relating to women and treatment of heretics—see warnings.) I loved finishing the novel and being able to read U.E.’s notes on his method and literary theory—that took this book from a 4.5 to a 5 for me. The ending isn’t anything like I expected, which disappointed me at first (even though that is very clearly the point). I do think it would be a disservice to the story and to what we’ll call “natural law” for it to have ended any other way. I wish I could start it again from the beginning blind!
Content Warnings
Graphic: Homophobia, Religious bigotry, Blood, Death, Fire/Fire injury, and Misogyny
Moderate: Body horror, Classism, Sexual assault, Sexual harassment, Gore, Murder, Sexism, Sexual content, and Torture
devor's review against another edition
challenging
dark
mysterious
reflective
sad
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
4.5
Content Warnings
Graphic: Murder and Religious bigotry
Moderate: Homophobia, Blood, Suicide, and Misogyny
Minor: Animal death, Confinement, and Violence
catapocalypse's review against another edition
challenging
dark
mysterious
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.5
My feelings are very mixed about the book. As someone who enjoys a thick tome now and then, unfortunately I felt this one needed condensing. Some things were repetitive, including the few times things like the argument about poverty, the history of certain heretical groups (particularly those related to Fra Dolcino's movement), the argument about laughter, etc. came up. There were extended passages such as the dream/vision scenes that felt as if they were drawn out purely to flex Eco's knowledge of history, theology, and semiotics.
The mystery plot disappointed me on the whole. At the beginning, the narrator's mentor, William, performed a Sherlock Holmes-level deduction about an escaped horse. It set my hopes high, but William didn't operate at that level again in the nearly 600 pages that followed.
That said, I didn't hate the book, either. I appreciated the history and there were some compelling passages about books and knowledge I actually loved. I don't regret reading it, but I don't see myself picking it up again. I'd be willing to try more from Eco, but I'm going to need some time, first.
The mystery plot disappointed me on the whole. At the beginning, the narrator's mentor, William, performed a Sherlock Holmes-level deduction about an escaped horse. It set my hopes high, but William didn't operate at that level again in the nearly 600 pages that followed.
That said, I didn't hate the book, either. I appreciated the history and there were some compelling passages about books and knowledge I actually loved. I don't regret reading it, but I don't see myself picking it up again. I'd be willing to try more from Eco, but I'm going to need some time, first.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death and Religious bigotry
Moderate: Homophobia, Blood, and Suicide
Minor: Animal death
seanml's review
challenging
dark
informative
mysterious
reflective
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
A very well-written story, centered on a mysterious death at a Catholic abbey in the 1320s, and the two monks that set to uncover the truth. Despite its length, I thought this book was very well written (Or perhaps, translated since it was originally published in Italian) and goes by quickly. However, if one half of this book is mystery, the other half (And I’m not exaggerating: 50% of the narrative at least) is all theological discussion in the setting of medieval Italy. If that doesn’t sound very interesting to you, brace yourself. And even if that does sound interesting, brace yourself even further because with medieval Abrahamic religion comes intense, indoctrinated misogyny. Is it culturally and historically, accurate? Perhaps. Does the author actually believe in the evil of women? Luckily, no. Nevertheless you’ll encounter multiple sections where monks preach the evils of womanhood, all while the abbey is beset by lies and murder. But as our main characters trudge on, they must ask: Where is the goodness of their God? Where is the justice in His cosmic plan? The answer becomes less and less confident. Equal parts mystery, equal parts Catholic history, equal parts theological skepticism, I thought this was a captivating story. 8/10.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Misogyny and Sexism
Moderate: Classism, Adult/minor relationship, Blood, Homophobia, Murder, Death, Outing, Religious bigotry, and Suicide
Minor: Animal cruelty, Fire/Fire injury, Torture, Violence, Sexual content, Animal death, Antisemitism, Dementia, Incest, Confinement, Islamophobia, Rape, Vomit, Alcohol, and Sexual assault
atamano's review against another edition
dark
mysterious
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
Content Warnings
Moderate: Blood, Death, Gore, Misogyny, Murder, and Suicide
lananis's review against another edition
dark
funny
mysterious
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
4.5
Hay partes que son muy lentas pero lo vale por la trama. Me sorprendió el sentido del humor y tiene uno de los mejores finales de cualquier historia de misterio que he leído.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Blood, Death, Murder, and Religious bigotry
Moderate: Sexism and Homophobia
sherbertwells's review
adventurous
challenging
informative
mysterious
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
3.0
As the apocalypse looms, two monks investigate the lethal secrets of a wealthy abbey. One of those books which is more smart than enjoyable, but mystery fans will love the labyrinthine plot and fellow nerds will admire the semiotic shenanigans.
“It is a hard thing for this old monk, on the threshold of death, not to know whether the letter he has written contains some hidden meaning, or more than one, or many, or none at all” (610)
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death, Religious bigotry, and Murder
Moderate: Sexual content, Suicide, Gore, Blood, and Misogyny
Minor: Animal death, Torture, Islamophobia, and Drug use
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