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amsswim's review against another edition
adventurous
funny
lighthearted
mysterious
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
4.0
This one got me good, so this review will be longer than my usuals. This book is considered a classic among science fiction and it I am glad I read it. However I see many of the negative reviews on this one as completely understandable due to the way it completely switches up 2/3 of the way through. If you want an unhinged and fascinating story, this is it.
The author and book are such a product of their time and it shows. THis book was written in 1961, and has moments of laughable (in my opinion) sexism and homophobia. It reads always blatantly as the author speaking through, but then he goes on from that and frames out the most progressive, sex-positive, all-inclusive way of life that combats the hateful views he clearly has but manages to not see that at all past his own self-insertion into the story.
The actual plot of the book is fascinating, the world building is amazing, and it is generally light hearted. The switch up it does is strange but did not ruin it for me. And the part-dated-part-weirdly-progressive views, adds a spice of a technologically advanced society that still has the political views and strife of 1960s America.
I'd say this book was well written, but content/views just need to be taken with a grain of salt. I had a blast listening to this one on Libby, it feels more like a Coen Brothers movie some of the time. Not for everyone, but lets talk books if anyone else decides to read.
The author and book are such a product of their time and it shows. THis book was written in 1961, and has moments of laughable (in my opinion) sexism and homophobia. It reads always blatantly as the author speaking through, but then he goes on from that and frames out the most progressive, sex-positive, all-inclusive way of life that combats the hateful views he clearly has but manages to not see that at all past his own self-insertion into the story.
The actual plot of the book is fascinating, the world building is amazing, and it is generally light hearted. The switch up it does is strange but did not ruin it for me. And the part-dated-part-weirdly-progressive views, adds a spice of a technologically advanced society that still has the political views and strife of 1960s America.
I'd say this book was well written, but content/views just need to be taken with a grain of salt. I had a blast listening to this one on Libby, it feels more like a Coen Brothers movie some of the time. Not for everyone, but lets talk books if anyone else decides to read.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Cannibalism, Sexual harassment, Injury/Injury detail, Sexual assault, War, Xenophobia, Fatphobia, Homophobia, Murder, Rape, Sexism, Racism, Suicide attempt, Violence, Biphobia, Blood, and Death
Cult/religious zealotryzworlund's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
funny
lighthearted
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
4.0
Content Warnings
Minor: War, Violence, Sexism, Religious bigotry, Racial slurs, Death, Xenophobia, Misogyny, and Sexual content
haleyshort's review against another edition
adventurous
funny
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.5
Second Read:
3.5
I recommended this for one of my book clubs after reading “The Mountain in the Sea” because the questions about what it means to be human and how we understand justice and freedom reminded me of this book. I listened to it on this read and had such a different experience. I don’t know if it was the lens of having recommended it to a group of 11 people that I don’t know all that well or the listening or the having grown up a little since my last read but the icky parts felt so much ickier. At the end of the story I do still enjoy it and think that it has a lot of value as a part of the canon and in forcing us to ask some questions about why we live how we live. There’s a reason it was so influential. But the misogyny and homophobia are both so intense and gross and totally out of line with the philosophy of the book in general. Heinlein’s perspective really shines through, negatively, on those ends.
I don’t agree with others criticisms that the female characters don’t have agency - the narrators voice is misogynistic and there is clearly patriarchy in the world that they live in but they end up with a lot of power and control in the microcosm that is created in the final 1/4 of the book. I am really looking forward to discussing this (and hoping it hasn’t ruined my book club reputation).
First read:
4.5
This was such a joy to read. After reading “Job: A Comedy of Justice,” I knew that I needed to experience another Heinlein story. This absolutely did not disappoint. The casual misogyny and racism are countered by disarmingly progressive views about the nature of humanity and the capacity we have to connect with and love each other. The way that Heinlein frames and questions faith, love, sex, religion, brotherhood, and family will stay with me, along with the characters and their wonderful idiosyncrasies.
One line in the book made me incredibly uncomfortable, so I will add a content warning about discussions of sexual assault.
I’m a lifelong Atheist, with aspirations towards Agnosticism, but I am on board with the church of the Man from Mars. Thou art God indeed.
3.5
I recommended this for one of my book clubs after reading “The Mountain in the Sea” because the questions about what it means to be human and how we understand justice and freedom reminded me of this book. I listened to it on this read and had such a different experience. I don’t know if it was the lens of having recommended it to a group of 11 people that I don’t know all that well or the listening or the having grown up a little since my last read but the icky parts felt so much ickier. At the end of the story I do still enjoy it and think that it has a lot of value as a part of the canon and in forcing us to ask some questions about why we live how we live. There’s a reason it was so influential. But the misogyny and homophobia are both so intense and gross and totally out of line with the philosophy of the book in general. Heinlein’s perspective really shines through, negatively, on those ends.
I don’t agree with others criticisms that the female characters don’t have agency - the narrators voice is misogynistic and there is clearly patriarchy in the world that they live in but they end up with a lot of power and control in the microcosm that is created in the final 1/4 of the book. I am really looking forward to discussing this (and hoping it hasn’t ruined my book club reputation).
First read:
4.5
This was such a joy to read. After reading “Job: A Comedy of Justice,” I knew that I needed to experience another Heinlein story. This absolutely did not disappoint. The casual misogyny and racism are countered by disarmingly progressive views about the nature of humanity and the capacity we have to connect with and love each other. The way that Heinlein frames and questions faith, love, sex, religion, brotherhood, and family will stay with me, along with the characters and their wonderful idiosyncrasies.
One line in the book made me incredibly uncomfortable, so I will add a content warning about discussions of sexual assault.
I’m a lifelong Atheist, with aspirations towards Agnosticism, but I am on board with the church of the Man from Mars. Thou art God indeed.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Sexual assault, Sexual content, Xenophobia, Homophobia, Violence, Misogyny, and Ableism
Minor: War, Gun violence, Sexual assault, and Sexual violence
unboxedjack's review against another edition
challenging
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
1.75
I thought I'd enjoy this, but it felt like what was a promising novel completely lost itself in the second half. The shift from a critical examination of culture, religion, and all that jazz to a gratuitous description of a sex cult made absolutely no sense. I tried to excuse Heinlein's repeated objectification and sexualization of women and absolute disparagement of anything other than heterosexuality as a sign of the times, but towards the end it felt like I was reading the inner machinations of a dirty old man. I'm not a prude and all for people feeling empowered by their sexuality, but Heinlein's characterization of women feeling as such was so much a product of the male gaze. Whether or not this was meant to be satirical--which I'll admit it did seem like this was the case at times--it was far too off-putting for my sensibilities. I can see why this novel may have been revolutionary for the time--the first half was definitely more engaging--but it simply didn't work for me.
Content Warnings
Moderate: Cannibalism, Colonisation, Cultural appropriation, Death, Misogyny, Racism, Racial slurs, Sexual content, Sexual harassment, Violence, Xenophobia, Sexism, and Alcohol
shieldbearer's review against another edition
challenging
mysterious
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
0.25
This book has all the qualities i hated in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, but dialed up even more. There's no denying that it's an influential book, or even that some of the concepts the Heinlein is trying to get across are important. The problem is that he can't seem to engage in these discussions without being racist. The good parts of the book are heavily intwined with racism and ableism, and there's so much else going on that honestly I cannot recommend this book even with a critical read through. Someone could do something incredible with the base concept, but it's not worth the time taken to read.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Ableism, Emotional abuse, Acephobia/Arophobia, Death, Forced institutionalization, Religious bigotry, Confinement, Racism, Cannibalism, Classism, Misogyny, Murder, Sexism, and Islamophobia
Moderate: Colonisation, Xenophobia, Drug use, Gun violence, Alcohol, and Kidnapping
Minor: Suicide, Pregnancy, and Sexual assault
booksthatburn's review against another edition
DNF 112 pages in.
It had the makings of a strong commentary on sexism, imperialism, and the way we treat those who either can’t speak for themselves or are never given the space to do so. I liked it at first, but it’s an emotional roller coaster because of the blend between kinds of bigotry which are clearly intentional and examined in the narrative and ones which don’t seem to be on purpose and are various kinds of casual racism/xenophobia or using words now understood as slurs. What made me stop was the realization that the portrayal of the titular character felt like an ableist and allistic understanding of an autistic person, complete with extremely literal interpretations of vernacular, and stress reactions which are difficult to describe without using the world "meltdown". This character was raised by aliens and is new to Earth, which was further troubling because it seemed to be associating classically (but not exclusively) autistic traits with being a literal visitor from outer space. It's possible that it gets better later, but I was too stressed out to see if it did.
It had the makings of a strong commentary on sexism, imperialism, and the way we treat those who either can’t speak for themselves or are never given the space to do so. I liked it at first, but it’s an emotional roller coaster because of the blend between kinds of bigotry which are clearly intentional and examined in the narrative and ones which don’t seem to be on purpose and are various kinds of casual racism/xenophobia or using words now understood as slurs. What made me stop was the realization that the portrayal of the titular character felt like an ableist and allistic understanding of an autistic person, complete with extremely literal interpretations of vernacular, and stress reactions which are difficult to describe without using the world "meltdown". This character was raised by aliens and is new to Earth, which was further troubling because it seemed to be associating classically (but not exclusively) autistic traits with being a literal visitor from outer space. It's possible that it gets better later, but I was too stressed out to see if it did.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Ableism and Sexism
Minor: Domestic abuse, Racial slurs, and Xenophobia
Racial slurs (minor), xenophobia (minor), domestic violence (backstory), ableism, sexism.
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