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justinkhchen's review against another edition
4.0
4 stars
A sub-genre starter still worth visiting, as long as one's aware going into The Flame and the Flower knowing there will be sprinkles of dated concept and language (the excellent audiobook was produced in 2023, and as far as I can tell nothing has been re-edited. The introduction was a nice touch providing context on its relevance in the history of publishing). In term of narrative and trope, it's amazing how much it has shaped the historical romances 'formula'—because the same structure is still being used relatively unchanged today.
'Epic' is the first word coming to mind; with its story spanning across continents, as well as the surplus amount of settings (small English town, on a ship, landed in the US, etc.), The Flame and the Flower leans heavily towards adventure. As a fan of Amanda Quick's plot-driven historical romances, I can trace the influence in this novel as well—as there's a heavy mystery element woven throughout—a very pleasant surprise that satisfies the thriller enthusiast in me (there is more body count here than some of the proper thrillers I've read recently).
You definitely will sense the length of this novel, especially around the 60%-70% mark, where there's a significant lull in plot progression (fortunately it picks itself back up with the mystery subplot). And the hero is not someone readers will be swooning over by today's standard (though the story tries very hard, and almost makes him redeemable). But as far as a melodramatic historical romance goes—this is among one of the older historical romances I really enjoyed.
***Historical Hellions Book Club | November 2023 Selection***
A sub-genre starter still worth visiting, as long as one's aware going into The Flame and the Flower knowing there will be sprinkles of dated concept and language (the excellent audiobook was produced in 2023, and as far as I can tell nothing has been re-edited. The introduction was a nice touch providing context on its relevance in the history of publishing). In term of narrative and trope, it's amazing how much it has shaped the historical romances 'formula'—because the same structure is still being used relatively unchanged today.
'Epic' is the first word coming to mind; with its story spanning across continents, as well as the surplus amount of settings (small English town, on a ship, landed in the US, etc.), The Flame and the Flower leans heavily towards adventure. As a fan of Amanda Quick's plot-driven historical romances, I can trace the influence in this novel as well—as there's a heavy mystery element woven throughout—a very pleasant surprise that satisfies the thriller enthusiast in me (there is more body count here than some of the proper thrillers I've read recently).
You definitely will sense the length of this novel, especially around the 60%-70% mark, where there's a significant lull in plot progression (fortunately it picks itself back up with the mystery subplot). And the hero is not someone readers will be swooning over by today's standard (though the story tries very hard, and almost makes him redeemable). But as far as a melodramatic historical romance goes—this is among one of the older historical romances I really enjoyed.
***Historical Hellions Book Club | November 2023 Selection***
madmcginnis's review against another edition
challenging
sad
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.0
e_asw_97's review against another edition
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
0.5
gamz's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
emotional
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
debs4jc's review against another edition
2.0
A young lady who has been raised by an abusive stepmother since the death of her parents is overjoyed when she gets a chance to leave her home and travel to London with a cousin. This lady is extraordinarily beautiful and it seems that all the males she meets immediately want to rape her, including her cousin. She manages to get away from him but is then nabbed by a couple of guys (who think she is a prositute) and taken to a ship where she is raped by the dashing captain. The rest of the book is how they manage to overcome this awkward beginning and eventually find true love with each other--or at least true appreciation for each others physical attractiveness. To do this they have to overcome being forced to marry because the gal gets pregnant and all the rival males in America (where the captain lives) who want to forcibly take his new bride.[return]I don't know what to say about this book except that if this type of story about romance based on the purely physical appeals to you then give it a try.
avanthi99's review against another edition
adventurous
emotional
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
1.5
This book was not for me. It was slow, had a meandering plot and really could have done with a strong editor to cut out about 100 pages of the middle where nothing furthered the plot. The characters were annoying and did not develop at all throughout the story. Would not recommend
awishman's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
emotional
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
itssamanthakelly's review against another edition
challenging
dark
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.25
I read this because it’s supposed to be the OG “Bodice Ripper” and I want to get into my granny smut era.
Let me just say if all Granny smut is like this I don’t want it.
Every smutty scene was quite literally assault and non consensual.
Now I’m v into a little dub con and have always been a dark romance girly. This was straight up rape and treating a woman terribly. There was no love felt between either of these characters and I think that’s where it fell off for me.
Also, SLAVERY??? I know it’s historical fiction but that was A LOT to process.
The prose is poetic and beautiful so I absolutely see how it gained popularity back in the day but it just didn’t hold up to my modern standards.
Let me just say if all Granny smut is like this I don’t want it.
Every smutty scene was quite literally assault and non consensual.
Now I’m v into a little dub con and have always been a dark romance girly. This was straight up rape and treating a woman terribly. There was no love felt between either of these characters and I think that’s where it fell off for me.
Also, SLAVERY??? I know it’s historical fiction but that was A LOT to process.
The prose is poetic and beautiful so I absolutely see how it gained popularity back in the day but it just didn’t hold up to my modern standards.
xkat13's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.0
The classic love story of a beautiful-but-doesn't-know-it orphan running from an ugly old rapist into the arms of a handsome verile rich rapist who is forced to marry her and take her to his plantation full of black slaves.
Who IS she? Why are her breasts mentioned as often as her name? why doesn't she realize what a treasured beauty she is and hide away from all the jealous, fat, ugly people? Women hate her, men (at least four) want to rape her!
I press on because, curiosity. Thee bodice ripper. Surely I must understand why this is the book that launched a thousand spicy books. But I can't.
I kept trying to rewrite the moments in my mind. How can we take this"get in that bed or I'll force you to" and make it respectable? I can't. You'd have to throw out most of the plot.
The Bridgerton series has a story of a similar plot, but it was a misunderstanding that lead to a forced marriage to preserve honor. No actual harm done to anyone. I suppose you could exchange that for multiple rapes resulting in a pregnancy? 🤦🏻♀️
A series of baths, dress fittings, baths, and more baths follows. All the while,our hero denies his victim access to his body to punish her for the forced marriage.
After a few more rape attempts from other men,he finally professes that he wants her. He gives her an ultimatum-- either have loving relations with me, or I'll forcibly use your body to jerk off because boohoo, I'm suffering. Then he stomps off.
Fortunately when he returns, he doesn't have to rape her again. She's resolved that it is his right as her husband to touch her.
They go to poundtown without her kicking and screaming. She's into it! Great. Cool. But then she drops this line like, "why didn't you tell me it could be so good?"
UMM because initially he was ignoring your screams of "no" and raping you, 'member?
After everyone comes into their bedroom and says "congrats on the sex," he shoos her off to go tend to the baby they only have when it's useful for the plot. It drags on a bit, we get treated to a blackmail scheme, courtesy of an evil, murderous, rapist cripple. One more final attempt at rape.
There's a showdown, the hero gets shot and has crazy amounts of control over his body when she digs the bullet out with scissors.
Honestly, the writing quality is so good, I struggled to come up with a rating for this.
Who IS she? Why are her breasts mentioned as often as her name? why doesn't she realize what a treasured beauty she is and hide away from all the jealous, fat, ugly people? Women hate her, men (at least four) want to rape her!
I press on because, curiosity. Thee bodice ripper. Surely I must understand why this is the book that launched a thousand spicy books. But I can't.
I kept trying to rewrite the moments in my mind. How can we take this
The Bridgerton series has a story of a similar plot, but it was a misunderstanding that lead to a forced marriage to preserve honor. No actual harm done to anyone. I suppose you could exchange that for multiple rapes resulting in a pregnancy? 🤦🏻♀️
A series of baths, dress fittings, baths, and more baths follows. All the while,
After a few more rape attempts from other men,
Fortunately when he returns, he doesn't have to rape her again. She's resolved that it is his right as her husband to touch her.
They go to poundtown without her kicking and screaming. She's into it! Great. Cool. But then she drops this line like, "why didn't you tell me it could be so good?"
UMM because initially he was ignoring your screams of "no" and raping you, 'member?
Honestly, the writing quality is so good, I struggled to come up with a rating for this.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Rape and Racism