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hellsjerome's review against another edition
sad
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.75
Unfortunately I just found it a slog. Too much rambling philosophy.
Content Warnings
Moderate: Genocide
Minor: Child death
isabellamarg's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
hopeful
informative
mysterious
reflective
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.5
Dune Messiah is the second novel in the Dune series by Frank Herbert. It continues the story of Paul Atreides, who we know as Muad'Dib as well as Emperor of the universe. Paul is worshipped by the Fremen and continues to face hostility from the Great Houses whom he displaced from the throne. Amidst this unrest we learn of multiple conspiracies brewing among factions to kill Paul.
"Watching the mundane activities of everyday life filled him with profound envy."
Dune Messiah is a commentary on how power changes you as well as the lengths we are willing to go for this power and our loved ones. Paul is a complex character. His prescience and ability to see glimpses of the future is a blessing but also a curse. He cannot just be a regular person, nor can his sister Alia who was also given prescience through her birth. This is an important theme throughout the book especially towards the end when we see Paul make decisions that will impact the future of his Jihad and empire.
The beginning of this book was very slow and confusing for me with multiple new characters brought in in a very short time span. My favorite part of the book was probably the last 80 pages where everything comes to a head and we gain clarity into Paul's thought processes and actions. Without giving too much away Chani plays a large role in the path that Paul chooses to take to evade his conspirators and the ending of the novel is due in part to his fastidiousness in Fremen culture as well as his love for Chani.
"'We're here now!' she protested, fighting a dry sob. 'And...I feel we have so little...time.' 'We have eternity, beloved.' 'You may have eternity. I have only now.''But this is eternity.' He stroked her forehead."
"Watching the mundane activities of everyday life filled him with profound envy."
Dune Messiah is a commentary on how power changes you as well as the lengths we are willing to go for this power and our loved ones. Paul is a complex character. His prescience and ability to see glimpses of the future is a blessing but also a curse. He cannot just be a regular person, nor can his sister Alia who was also given prescience through her birth. This is an important theme throughout the book especially towards the end when we see Paul make decisions that will impact the future of his Jihad and empire.
The beginning of this book was very slow and confusing for me with multiple new characters brought in in a very short time span. My favorite part of the book was probably the last 80 pages where everything comes to a head and we gain clarity into Paul's thought processes and actions. Without giving too much away Chani plays a large role in the path that Paul chooses to take to evade his conspirators and the ending of the novel is due in part to his fastidiousness in Fremen culture as well as his love for Chani.
"'We're here now!' she protested, fighting a dry sob. 'And...I feel we have so little...time.' 'We have eternity, beloved.' 'You may have eternity. I have only now.''But this is eternity.' He stroked her forehead."
Content Warnings
Minor: Death, Fire/Fire injury, War, and Genocide
trvs49's review against another edition
challenging
dark
mysterious
reflective
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
This is a more philosophical, character-driven entry in the Dune series. The elements of adventure, new worlds, and sci-fi take a back seat to the intense character interactions, politics, and schemes. Paul's struggle for control over the universe and the events of the world is the main focus and is highly engaging throughout. Suspicions, schemes, plots within plots, and the reality of a universe ruled by Paul with his Sister at his side as pseudo-gods all culminate in a fantastic narrative with a satisfying end.
Paul's character development is impressive and genuinely satisfying, and it stays true to the character. However, where this book lacks is in the writing of the female characters, which is considerably weaker, although Alia does present as a really cool, complex character. The incest stuff and the age gap between her and some of the characters, as well as the stuff about her dad being her lover, are not necessary, in my opinion.Also, Irulan just being super in love with Paul, although it is alluded to early in the book. I feel it doesn't get enough build-up and attention to make it understandable and believable, especially since she is supposed to be Bene Gesserit but throws away all her loyalties after he dies.
Paul's character development is impressive and genuinely satisfying, and it stays true to the character. However, where this book lacks is in the writing of the female characters, which is considerably weaker, although Alia does present as a really cool, complex character. The incest stuff and the age gap between her and some of the characters, as well as the stuff about her dad being her lover, are not necessary, in my opinion.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Fire/Fire injury, Genocide, Death, Drug use, Drug abuse, Injury/Injury detail, War, Ableism, Adult/minor relationship, Child death, Grief, Incest, Infertility, Murder, Pregnancy, Suicidal thoughts, Suicide, Suicide attempt, and Violence
dakizu's review against another edition
dark
emotional
reflective
sad
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.25
Content Warnings
Graphic: Grief
Moderate: Infertility
Minor: Addiction, Genocide, Suicidal thoughts, Body shaming, Drug use, and Drug abuse
sarah_tani's review against another edition
dark
mysterious
reflective
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
Content Warnings
Moderate: Murder, Adult/minor relationship, Incest, Violence, Suicide, Grief, War, Genocide, Death, Drug use, Infertility, and Pregnancy
aileron's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.5
Content Warnings
Graphic: Infertility, Injury/Injury detail, Drug use, and Pregnancy
Moderate: Incest, Murder, Death, Grief, Colonisation, Fire/Fire injury, Suicidal thoughts, Violence, and Suicide
Minor: Ableism, Genocide, Child death, Religious bigotry, and War
roget's review against another edition
dark
reflective
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
There's so much going on here, and this review is full of spoilers, so skip it if you don't want it ruined for you.
1.) Paul's on about trying to disengage the jihad all of Dune 1 and, to an extent, 2. There's this path of "discrediting himself" that he talks about, but at the end, the path he takes is one that doesn't discredit himself?? Duncan's literally reflecting on how Paul's final actions establish him as a religious figurehead for the Fremen people.
2.) There's clearly a theme here about Paul having no power over his power, and being mostly just aware of the flow of time but ultimately just as tossed about by it as everyone else. I get that. But also, he's so resistant to changing and stepping off the path in case one of the worse visions happen that he lets an incomprehensible genocide play out to avoid a somehow even worse incomprehensible genocide? Am I getting that right? There was no point at which he might've given an order to "no, leave that planet alone?" or "no, don't kill all those people?" That just...wouldn't have worked? What's Herbert trying to say, here? That certain pressures and rhetoric are unstoppably destructive?
3.) Chani and Irulan deserved better, but Chani deserved way, way better.
4.) The incest thing was extremely ick. As was Herbert sexualizing the crap out of a fourteen/fifteen year old girl's body. I don't give a fig about the acrobatics the story performs to make Alia a grown-up inside. This stuff isn't thought-up in a vacuum, and therefore it absolutely merits some major side eye. That alone knocked my enjoyment of this novel down multiple stars.
5.) Chani should've been given a voice to speak to Paul's decision making on her and their children's behalf. There was opportunity for good conflict there, and it floated out the window because Chani's reduced to an Ophelia, here.
And that's the center of the biggest issue for me--once again, we have all significant women characters ending up fridged or holding the short end of the stick. And Paul who I'd assumed would fall from power (based on how everyone talks about this book), ends up valorized by the very people he manipulated in the first book.
I'd find his fear of other futures more convincing if the text gave us more solidity and detail about those futures, but most of it is kept rather vague, and the only points that are expanded are the more personal, AU fates of Chani and their children. I'm just a little ?????
Like, what's the take, here? Poor Paul, he couldn't help but do an intergalactic genocide?
And to be clear--I was completely prepared and ready to witness some Shakespearean-level tragedy. I was not expecting a happy ending for anyone. But the sad ending I got was so disappointing, and there was no justice in it re: Paul, the empire, or the Fremen people. By the way this is talked about, I was expecting some fire post-colonial or anti-imperial commentary, and I was just underwhelmed on that front.
Duncan Idaho (Alia plot points WILDLY aside) was the main high point. That was interesting, and his coming back to himself was cool.
1.) Paul's on about trying to disengage the jihad all of Dune 1 and, to an extent, 2. There's this path of "discrediting himself" that he talks about, but at the end, the path he takes is one that doesn't discredit himself?? Duncan's literally reflecting on how Paul's final actions establish him as a religious figurehead for the Fremen people.
2.) There's clearly a theme here about Paul having no power over his power, and being mostly just aware of the flow of time but ultimately just as tossed about by it as everyone else. I get that. But also, he's so resistant to changing and stepping off the path in case one of the worse visions happen that he lets an incomprehensible genocide play out to avoid a somehow even worse incomprehensible genocide? Am I getting that right? There was no point at which he might've given an order to "no, leave that planet alone?" or "no, don't kill all those people?" That just...wouldn't have worked? What's Herbert trying to say, here? That certain pressures and rhetoric are unstoppably destructive?
3.) Chani and Irulan deserved better, but Chani deserved way, way better.
4.) The incest thing was extremely ick. As was Herbert sexualizing the crap out of a fourteen/fifteen year old girl's body. I don't give a fig about the acrobatics the story performs to make Alia a grown-up inside. This stuff isn't thought-up in a vacuum, and therefore it absolutely merits some major side eye. That alone knocked my enjoyment of this novel down multiple stars.
5.) Chani should've been given a voice to speak to Paul's decision making on her and their children's behalf. There was opportunity for good conflict there, and it floated out the window because Chani's reduced to an Ophelia, here.
And that's the center of the biggest issue for me--once again, we have all significant women characters ending up fridged or holding the short end of the stick. And Paul who I'd assumed would fall from power (based on how everyone talks about this book), ends up valorized by the very people he manipulated in the first book.
I'd find his fear of other futures more convincing if the text gave us more solidity and detail about those futures, but most of it is kept rather vague, and the only points that are expanded are the more personal, AU fates of Chani and their children. I'm just a little ?????
Like, what's the take, here? Poor Paul, he couldn't help but do an intergalactic genocide?
And to be clear--I was completely prepared and ready to witness some Shakespearean-level tragedy. I was not expecting a happy ending for anyone. But the sad ending I got was so disappointing, and there was no justice in it re: Paul, the empire, or the Fremen people. By the way this is talked about, I was expecting some fire post-colonial or anti-imperial commentary, and I was just underwhelmed on that front.
Duncan Idaho (Alia plot points WILDLY aside) was the main high point. That was interesting, and his coming back to himself was cool.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Incest, Adult/minor relationship, Drug abuse, Addiction, Colonisation, Misogyny, Pregnancy, Death, Pedophilia, Sexism, Genocide, Suicide, Infertility, Death of parent, and Violence
alterdd's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
emotional
mysterious
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.25
Content Warnings
Minor: Incest, War, and Genocide
giuliana_ferrari's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
inspiring
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
The second installment of the Dune series managed to be more confusing to read than the first. Perhaps that is due to the more recent movie being available by the time I decided to have a crack at the first volume, in which many of my questions regarding concepts of the story were explained. Dune Messiah carries over the philosophical questionings of power and destiny, but within an overachieving arc of oracles, people being brought back from the dead and only in the last pages of the book you can understand they are in fact, those people, visions from a blind Paul, and more . I appreciate Herbert's musings, and I think I have gained more respect for his ideas, but I can't condone such a difficult writing for the subject of science fiction. And not that this genre shouldn't be subjected to a serious tone, as sci-fi has allowed humanity to explore the limits of infinite possibilities, but having to decipher your own plot through cues at the beginning of each chapter is perhaps a hint that your readers need all the help they can get. And in the spirit of learning, if an entire class fails to understand the assignment, the blame shouldn't be deposited at the student's feet, but rather at their teacher's.
In the end, I think the overall desert aesthetic of the first book was more enjoyable, rich with ecological understandings, but the second one lost me a bit with all the talks of politics and an Emperor afflicted with the immutable position of his role.And honestly the weird vibes of having Alia 'remember' having sex with her father (as her mother), and the mere indication of the possibility of Paul and Alia having a baby together to lock in their genes was enough for me to lose some of my interest. The fact that Herbert considered essential for a young woman to be 'mated' just because she started to feel her young woman body was also offputting text . On and all, Dune Messiah was an interesting sequence to Dune, but all the meanderings and confusions from the writting have me almost firmly decided in not reading the rest of the series.
In the end, I think the overall desert aesthetic of the first book was more enjoyable, rich with ecological understandings, but the second one lost me a bit with all the talks of politics and an Emperor afflicted with the immutable position of his role.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Addiction
Moderate: Incest, Religious bigotry, and Genocide
bettysbookishworld's review against another edition
mysterious
reflective
sad
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
I really enjoy the writing style where the villains' intention is presented and then we follow the story from that point until the final resolution. I think this narrative style is what keeps me so engaged and invested in the story itself.
I like the ending and how the whole story from Dune until the ending of Dune Messiah turned out on the whole philosophical and religious level.
However, the only negative thing to say about the second book is how female characters were written and unfortunately, it affected my reading enjoyment. In Dune, Herbert wrote female characters as strong, independent with their own minds. Even though they had the more traditional roles in the story, they were still written well. However, I didn't like how the women were handled in Dune Messiah. Mainly Alia. I felt uncomfortable how sexualized her character was when you think about her age. Also, all of the female characters lacked their personalities from the first book and here they were just submissive and shallow, really.
I'll probably read the next book but will read it with caution and much lower expectations.
I like the ending and how the whole story from Dune until the ending of Dune Messiah turned out on the whole philosophical and religious level.
However, the only negative thing to say about the second book is how female characters were written and unfortunately, it affected my reading enjoyment. In Dune, Herbert wrote female characters as strong, independent with their own minds. Even though they had the more traditional roles in the story, they were still written well. However, I didn't like how the women were handled in Dune Messiah. Mainly Alia. I felt uncomfortable how sexualized her character was when you think about her age. Also, all of the female characters lacked their personalities from the first book and here they were just submissive and shallow, really.
I'll probably read the next book but will read it with caution and much lower expectations.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Colonisation, Suicide, Injury/Injury detail, Drug use, Gun violence, Death, and Genocide
Moderate: Grief
Minor: Pregnancy, Sexism, Incest, and Infertility