Scan barcode
gvstyris's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.5
Religion, too, is a weapon. What manner of weapon is religion when it becomes the government?
Dune Messiah is strikingly more didactic than its predecessor, jumping twelve years to follow a conspiracy against Paul's now-established rule over the empire. I'm struggling a bit to rate and condense my feelings about this novel, primarily because of how different it is to Dune.
Dune Messiah is theoretically right up my alley: it explores the corrupting influences of power and the inherent problems faced by a government built on religious worship and fabricated idolatry. Herbert is not intending to replicate the first novel's epic sense of adventure, but I would still argue that this sequel suffers a little without it. Its slow-burn is a bit painful, yet it ultimately still offers a much more nuanced (and needed!) character analysis of Paul, which I thoroughly enjoyed. I also really loved the discussion surrounding the Fremen's loss of cultural identity with 'modernisation.'
I'll definitely be considering continuing the series, but am mainly just hyped to see how Villeneuve chooses to adapt this story given his changes to Chani's character.
Content Warnings
Moderate: Death, Grief, Infertility, Medical trauma, and Pregnancy
Minor: Incest
j315's review against another edition
emotional
sad
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.5
Last quarter is really good, the front 3/4 much less so. Dune had a Lot to say about ecologic relationships, colonialism&exploitation, and critiquing the arthurian Hero while messiah really decided that the readers were too dumb to do all of that so it just did the last one?
Content Warnings
Moderate: Injury/Injury detail and Incest
aileron's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.5
Content Warnings
Graphic: Infertility, Injury/Injury detail, Drug use, and Pregnancy
Moderate: Incest, Murder, Death, Grief, Colonisation, Fire/Fire injury, Suicidal thoughts, Violence, and Suicide
Minor: Ableism, Genocide, Child death, Religious bigotry, and War
aeshnakay's review against another edition
reflective
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
3.5
Content Warnings
Minor: Incest and War
roget's review against another edition
dark
reflective
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
There's so much going on here, and this review is full of spoilers, so skip it if you don't want it ruined for you.
1.) Paul's on about trying to disengage the jihad all of Dune 1 and, to an extent, 2. There's this path of "discrediting himself" that he talks about, but at the end, the path he takes is one that doesn't discredit himself?? Duncan's literally reflecting on how Paul's final actions establish him as a religious figurehead for the Fremen people.
2.) There's clearly a theme here about Paul having no power over his power, and being mostly just aware of the flow of time but ultimately just as tossed about by it as everyone else. I get that. But also, he's so resistant to changing and stepping off the path in case one of the worse visions happen that he lets an incomprehensible genocide play out to avoid a somehow even worse incomprehensible genocide? Am I getting that right? There was no point at which he might've given an order to "no, leave that planet alone?" or "no, don't kill all those people?" That just...wouldn't have worked? What's Herbert trying to say, here? That certain pressures and rhetoric are unstoppably destructive?
3.) Chani and Irulan deserved better, but Chani deserved way, way better.
4.) The incest thing was extremely ick. As was Herbert sexualizing the crap out of a fourteen/fifteen year old girl's body. I don't give a fig about the acrobatics the story performs to make Alia a grown-up inside. This stuff isn't thought-up in a vacuum, and therefore it absolutely merits some major side eye. That alone knocked my enjoyment of this novel down multiple stars.
5.) Chani should've been given a voice to speak to Paul's decision making on her and their children's behalf. There was opportunity for good conflict there, and it floated out the window because Chani's reduced to an Ophelia, here.
And that's the center of the biggest issue for me--once again, we have all significant women characters ending up fridged or holding the short end of the stick. And Paul who I'd assumed would fall from power (based on how everyone talks about this book), ends up valorized by the very people he manipulated in the first book.
I'd find his fear of other futures more convincing if the text gave us more solidity and detail about those futures, but most of it is kept rather vague, and the only points that are expanded are the more personal, AU fates of Chani and their children. I'm just a little ?????
Like, what's the take, here? Poor Paul, he couldn't help but do an intergalactic genocide?
And to be clear--I was completely prepared and ready to witness some Shakespearean-level tragedy. I was not expecting a happy ending for anyone. But the sad ending I got was so disappointing, and there was no justice in it re: Paul, the empire, or the Fremen people. By the way this is talked about, I was expecting some fire post-colonial or anti-imperial commentary, and I was just underwhelmed on that front.
Duncan Idaho (Alia plot points WILDLY aside) was the main high point. That was interesting, and his coming back to himself was cool.
1.) Paul's on about trying to disengage the jihad all of Dune 1 and, to an extent, 2. There's this path of "discrediting himself" that he talks about, but at the end, the path he takes is one that doesn't discredit himself?? Duncan's literally reflecting on how Paul's final actions establish him as a religious figurehead for the Fremen people.
2.) There's clearly a theme here about Paul having no power over his power, and being mostly just aware of the flow of time but ultimately just as tossed about by it as everyone else. I get that. But also, he's so resistant to changing and stepping off the path in case one of the worse visions happen that he lets an incomprehensible genocide play out to avoid a somehow even worse incomprehensible genocide? Am I getting that right? There was no point at which he might've given an order to "no, leave that planet alone?" or "no, don't kill all those people?" That just...wouldn't have worked? What's Herbert trying to say, here? That certain pressures and rhetoric are unstoppably destructive?
3.) Chani and Irulan deserved better, but Chani deserved way, way better.
4.) The incest thing was extremely ick. As was Herbert sexualizing the crap out of a fourteen/fifteen year old girl's body. I don't give a fig about the acrobatics the story performs to make Alia a grown-up inside. This stuff isn't thought-up in a vacuum, and therefore it absolutely merits some major side eye. That alone knocked my enjoyment of this novel down multiple stars.
5.) Chani should've been given a voice to speak to Paul's decision making on her and their children's behalf. There was opportunity for good conflict there, and it floated out the window because Chani's reduced to an Ophelia, here.
And that's the center of the biggest issue for me--once again, we have all significant women characters ending up fridged or holding the short end of the stick. And Paul who I'd assumed would fall from power (based on how everyone talks about this book), ends up valorized by the very people he manipulated in the first book.
I'd find his fear of other futures more convincing if the text gave us more solidity and detail about those futures, but most of it is kept rather vague, and the only points that are expanded are the more personal, AU fates of Chani and their children. I'm just a little ?????
Like, what's the take, here? Poor Paul, he couldn't help but do an intergalactic genocide?
And to be clear--I was completely prepared and ready to witness some Shakespearean-level tragedy. I was not expecting a happy ending for anyone. But the sad ending I got was so disappointing, and there was no justice in it re: Paul, the empire, or the Fremen people. By the way this is talked about, I was expecting some fire post-colonial or anti-imperial commentary, and I was just underwhelmed on that front.
Duncan Idaho (Alia plot points WILDLY aside) was the main high point. That was interesting, and his coming back to himself was cool.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Incest, Adult/minor relationship, Drug abuse, Addiction, Colonisation, Misogyny, Pregnancy, Death, Pedophilia, Sexism, Genocide, Suicide, Infertility, Death of parent, and Violence
luis_vieira's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
mysterious
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
Content Warnings
Graphic: Infertility, Drug abuse, and Cultural appropriation
Moderate: Pregnancy, Murder, Adult/minor relationship, and Grief
Minor: Incest
dafrogmaster's review against another edition
dark
mysterious
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
This was interesting! Not as dense as the first, although the first third is filled with political and conspiring scenes that were slow for me. Herbert keeps presenting such interesting ideas and world building only to focus on what's really important: the rise and fall of a flawed leader.
What I wouldn't do to hear more about sandworms, oracles, atomic weapons, and space trade... at least these interesting topics are given a spark rather than avoided altogether. I think this series most reminds me of Star Wars prequels where the story really shines if you are interested in a political intrigue and conspiracy, but if you're looking for wild fantasy you'll be taking scraps.
The last third of the book was really engaging and I managed to finish that in an evening. I was genuinely surprised by how Hayt's story concluded and excited with the final confrontation scene.
What I wouldn't do to hear more about sandworms, oracles, atomic weapons, and space trade... at least these interesting topics are given a spark rather than avoided altogether. I think this series most reminds me of Star Wars prequels where the story really shines if you are interested in a political intrigue and conspiracy, but if you're looking for wild fantasy you'll be taking scraps.
The last third of the book was really engaging and I managed to finish that in an evening. I was genuinely surprised by how Hayt's story concluded and excited with the final confrontation scene.
Content Warnings
Moderate: War
Minor: Incest
lqne's review
mysterious
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
4.5
Content Warnings
Graphic: Infertility, Colonisation, War, and Pregnancy
Moderate: Adult/minor relationship, Religious bigotry, and Incest
Minor: Death, Torture, Child death, and Addiction
dpekus's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
mysterious
reflective
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.25
Visiškai kitokia nei pirmoji knyga, bet tuo pačiu ir nesiskirianti - tiesiog epinius nuotykius ir mūšius keičia gilūs ir sukti politiniai žaidimai bei vidinės personažų kovos su pačiais savimi (ir tas pasireiškia vos ne kiekvienam iš pagrindinių personažų). Pradžioj skaitėsi sunkiai ir lėtai, daug naujų vardų ir terminų, bet gana greitai viskas susistato į vietas.
Gal ta pirmoji knygos pusė ir kiek gali išvarginti savo politiniais dialogais, bet antroji pusė savo tempu per daug nesiskiria nuo pirmosios knygos, o visos filosofinės įžvalgos padeda kiek kitaip pažvelgti į personažus. Vienintelis didesnis minusas - moteriški personažai, kurių paskirtis beveik visada buvo arba pratęsti imperatoriaus giminę, arba pamesti protą dėl vyro (ir nuogai brolio akivaizdoj treniruotis kardu - ką??). Bet net ir su šituo knyga labai stipri ir puikiai pratęsia Kopos istoriją - o skaičius pirmąją knygą šią paskaityti tiesiog būtina.
Gal ta pirmoji knygos pusė ir kiek gali išvarginti savo politiniais dialogais, bet antroji pusė savo tempu per daug nesiskiria nuo pirmosios knygos, o visos filosofinės įžvalgos padeda kiek kitaip pažvelgti į personažus. Vienintelis didesnis minusas - moteriški personažai, kurių paskirtis beveik visada buvo arba pratęsti imperatoriaus giminę, arba pamesti protą dėl vyro (ir nuogai brolio akivaizdoj treniruotis kardu - ką??). Bet net ir su šituo knyga labai stipri ir puikiai pratęsia Kopos istoriją - o skaičius pirmąją knygą šią paskaityti tiesiog būtina.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Death, War, and Violence
Moderate: Adult/minor relationship and Injury/Injury detail
Minor: Infertility and Incest
lizzyjean's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
dark
mysterious
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
This was an absolutely underrated book. It is very politics-heavy, therefore can be hard to follow, but if you allow yourself to focus on the story as well as read between the lines, this book is fantastic. Dune and Dune Messiah are a fantastic pair, and I look forward to reading the rest of the series.
Content Warnings
Graphic: War
Moderate: Death
Minor: Incest and Child death
The incest is