Reviews with content warning for Infertility - Dune Messiah

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Dune Messiah by Frank Herbert

33 reviews

aileron's review against another edition

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adventurous challenging reflective slow-paced

Plot- or character-driven? A mix
Strong character development? It's complicated
Loveable characters? It's complicated
Diverse cast of characters? No
Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes

2.5

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roget's review against another edition

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dark reflective fast-paced

Plot- or character-driven? A mix
Strong character development? It's complicated
Loveable characters? It's complicated
Diverse cast of characters? No
Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes

3.0

There's so much going on here, and this review is full of spoilers, so skip it if you don't want it ruined for you.

1.) Paul's on about trying to disengage the jihad all of Dune 1 and, to an extent, 2. There's this path of "discrediting himself" that he talks about, but at the end, the path he takes is one that doesn't discredit himself?? Duncan's literally reflecting on how Paul's final actions establish him as a religious figurehead for the Fremen people.

2.) There's clearly a theme here about Paul having no power over his power, and being mostly just aware of the flow of time but ultimately just as tossed about by it as everyone else. I get that. But also, he's so resistant to changing and stepping off the path in case one of the worse visions happen that he lets an incomprehensible genocide play out to avoid a somehow even worse incomprehensible genocide? Am I getting that right? There was no point at which he might've given an order to "no, leave that planet alone?" or "no, don't kill all those people?" That just...wouldn't have worked? What's Herbert trying to say, here? That certain pressures and rhetoric are unstoppably destructive?

3.) Chani and Irulan deserved better, but Chani deserved way, way better.

4.) The incest thing was extremely ick. As was Herbert sexualizing the crap out of a fourteen/fifteen year old girl's body. I don't give a fig about the acrobatics the story performs to make Alia a grown-up inside. This stuff isn't thought-up in a vacuum, and therefore it absolutely merits some major side eye. That alone knocked my enjoyment of this novel down multiple stars.

5.) Chani should've been given a voice to speak to Paul's decision making on her and their children's behalf. There was opportunity for good conflict there, and it floated out the window because Chani's reduced to an Ophelia, here.

And that's the center of the biggest issue for me--once again, we have all significant women characters ending up fridged or holding the short end of the stick. And Paul who I'd assumed would fall from power (based on how everyone talks about this book), ends up valorized by the very people he manipulated in the first book.

I'd find his fear of other futures more convincing if the text gave us more solidity and detail about those futures, but most of it is kept rather vague, and the only points that are expanded are the more personal, AU fates of Chani and their children. I'm just a little ?????

Like, what's the take, here? Poor Paul, he couldn't help but do an intergalactic genocide?

And to be clear--I was completely prepared and ready to witness some Shakespearean-level tragedy. I was not expecting a happy ending for anyone. But the sad ending I got was so disappointing, and there was no justice in it re: Paul, the empire, or the Fremen people. By the way this is talked about, I was expecting some fire post-colonial or anti-imperial commentary, and I was just underwhelmed on that front.

Duncan Idaho (Alia plot points WILDLY aside) was the main high point. That was interesting, and his coming back to himself was cool.

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luis_vieira's review against another edition

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adventurous challenging mysterious reflective medium-paced

Plot- or character-driven? A mix
Strong character development? Yes
Loveable characters? Yes
Diverse cast of characters? Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes

5.0

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lqne's review

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mysterious reflective medium-paced

Plot- or character-driven? Character
Strong character development? Yes
Loveable characters? It's complicated
Diverse cast of characters? Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated

4.5

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emilywemily6's review against another edition

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challenging mysterious slow-paced

Plot- or character-driven? Character
Strong character development? It's complicated
Loveable characters? Yes
Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes

3.75

Herbert’s writing is tough to get into; I feel like there was so much he was trying to say, but he was so vague about it that I missed his message. I liked that this book was a lot of political intrigue. I also feel like the length was perfect. I really wish you learned more about the events immediately after Dune though. The time gap made it hard to feel invested in where the characters are now, a decade later. Though even though it had been a bit since I read Dune, I still remembered enough to get back into this world without too much trouble. I think this book has more merits in being reread over and over again.

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dpekus's review against another edition

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adventurous challenging dark mysterious reflective sad tense medium-paced

Plot- or character-driven? A mix
Strong character development? Yes
Loveable characters? It's complicated
Diverse cast of characters? Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes

4.25

Visiškai kitokia nei pirmoji knyga, bet tuo pačiu ir nesiskirianti - tiesiog epinius nuotykius ir mūšius keičia gilūs ir sukti politiniai žaidimai bei vidinės personažų kovos su pačiais savimi (ir tas pasireiškia vos ne kiekvienam iš pagrindinių personažų). Pradžioj skaitėsi sunkiai ir lėtai, daug naujų vardų ir terminų, bet gana greitai viskas susistato į vietas.

Gal ta pirmoji knygos pusė ir kiek gali išvarginti savo politiniais dialogais, bet antroji pusė savo tempu per daug nesiskiria nuo pirmosios knygos, o visos filosofinės įžvalgos padeda kiek kitaip pažvelgti į personažus. Vienintelis didesnis minusas - moteriški personažai, kurių paskirtis beveik visada buvo arba pratęsti imperatoriaus giminę, arba pamesti protą dėl vyro (ir nuogai brolio akivaizdoj treniruotis kardu - ką??). Bet net ir su šituo knyga labai stipri ir puikiai pratęsia Kopos istoriją - o skaičius pirmąją knygą šią paskaityti tiesiog būtina.

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