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silverleaf's review against another edition
challenging
informative
reflective
slow-paced
3.5
Informative, but admittedly seems to have suffered a bit from the aging of the text itself. It's not at all a bad account, with plenty of citations and references, but I'd love to see another dive in the same vein at some point. It's a good starting point on gathering time period relevant texts to delve into further!
Content Warnings
Moderate: Sexism, Transphobia, Homophobia, Sexual assault, and Rape
snarf137's review against another edition
challenging
informative
slow-paced
This was pretty interesting , particularly regarding post-1650 as a new and distinct break from the past: wheras sodomy was previously a background feature of society, it now emerged as a distinct culture, as evidenced by the appearance of mollyhouses and in the increasing arrests of 'mollies' en masse. With no changes to the actual level of hatred society directed towards sodomites (a claim nonetheless disputed by those like Lawrence Stone), the author concludes that these societies represent something new in gay culture and are a signal for the immense changes that were to sweep Western Europe at large in the ensuing decades.
However, I am unconvinced by his argument that changing philosophies and ideas are the main reasons for this. I don't doubt that ideas began to emphase the /particular/ over the /general/ or the allegorical compared to Elizabethan and Jacobean times, but it is difficult to see a clear causal chain here. This is especially true given that the proof is mostly illustrated through the ideas of Locke et al which weren't exactly representative of their time. It seems to me more likely that altered material circumstances and patterns of life, be they the rise of capitalism, the breakdown of traditional bonds of duties and rights, increasing urbanism, and the chaos of the civil wars may have had more to do with these novelties. I'm certainly not enough of an expert to back up these claims, though.
Of interest: apparently this is an enduring classic owing to it being one of the first historical explorations of the topic of homosexuality in this period, and so it is owed a lot for what it opened for others.
Also, it was fascinating to read about a short account of a raid of a mollyhouse that seems to parallel the fabled Stonewall riot some 230 years later. The more things change the more they stay the same:
"When a molly house in Covent Garden was broken up in 1725, the crowded household, many of them in drag, met the raid with determined and violent resistance."
However, I am unconvinced by his argument that changing philosophies and ideas are the main reasons for this. I don't doubt that ideas began to emphase the /particular/ over the /general/ or the allegorical compared to Elizabethan and Jacobean times, but it is difficult to see a clear causal chain here. This is especially true given that the proof is mostly illustrated through the ideas of Locke et al which weren't exactly representative of their time. It seems to me more likely that altered material circumstances and patterns of life, be they the rise of capitalism, the breakdown of traditional bonds of duties and rights, increasing urbanism, and the chaos of the civil wars may have had more to do with these novelties. I'm certainly not enough of an expert to back up these claims, though.
Of interest: apparently this is an enduring classic owing to it being one of the first historical explorations of the topic of homosexuality in this period, and so it is owed a lot for what it opened for others.
Also, it was fascinating to read about a short account of a raid of a mollyhouse that seems to parallel the fabled Stonewall riot some 230 years later. The more things change the more they stay the same:
"When a molly house in Covent Garden was broken up in 1725, the crowded household, many of them in drag, met the raid with determined and violent resistance."
macbean221b's review against another edition
3.0
Essentially, this is more of a long scholarly essay than it is a book. Despite the brevity, it took me forever to read because the footnotes were stuffed into an appendix at the end of the book so I had to constantly flip around instead of just glancing down at the bottom of the page to see if there were interesting tidbits or if it was just a bibliographical note.
Anyway, it was interesting and informative, if not riveting. (Sadly, most non-fiction isn't written to be riveting though it should be because then maybe more people would take an interest in learning.) Though I have to say that the fourth chapter, which is about molly houses, is extremely interesting. It's given me some ideas for original writing and I'm very glad I bought this book because now I've got it as a reference point whenever I may need it.
All in all, an interesting read if you have a mind for scholarly writing and are interested in the topic. But it's not the sort of thing you'll want to toss into your bag for beach reading this summer, most likely.
Anyway, it was interesting and informative, if not riveting. (Sadly, most non-fiction isn't written to be riveting though it should be because then maybe more people would take an interest in learning.) Though I have to say that the fourth chapter, which is about molly houses, is extremely interesting. It's given me some ideas for original writing and I'm very glad I bought this book because now I've got it as a reference point whenever I may need it.
All in all, an interesting read if you have a mind for scholarly writing and are interested in the topic. But it's not the sort of thing you'll want to toss into your bag for beach reading this summer, most likely.
jsjammersmith's review against another edition
4.0
So, this book was...good. But also really, really, REALLY academic and rambly. Still I found the material fascinating. Alan Bray seems at times like he's not entirely sure how he will be able to support the argument he's making, or whether or not an argument can even be made, but once the reader pushes past this uncertainty they'll arrive at a passage where he explores the presence and existence of homosexuality in Renaissance England and the often tragic existence such men faced. I say men because consistently nobody ever bothered tp write down anything about lesbianism, which I think is uncool.
Moving on.
Homosexuality in Renaissance England is an important book for being one of the earliest attempts at exploring the topic of homosexuality in history as a legitimate topic. For this reason, the book deserves plenty of street-cred. Still, it's also a book which has a lot of structural issue and bounces between what it wants and what it can actually give. Any reader who approaches this book can expect a fair amount of thick and academic discourse, but also plenty of insightful passages about homosexuality in the culture of the Renaissance.
It's a flawed book, but it ain't bad book y'all.
Moving on.
Homosexuality in Renaissance England is an important book for being one of the earliest attempts at exploring the topic of homosexuality in history as a legitimate topic. For this reason, the book deserves plenty of street-cred. Still, it's also a book which has a lot of structural issue and bounces between what it wants and what it can actually give. Any reader who approaches this book can expect a fair amount of thick and academic discourse, but also plenty of insightful passages about homosexuality in the culture of the Renaissance.
It's a flawed book, but it ain't bad book y'all.
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