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julianiseternal2024's review against another edition
4.0
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to comprehend that ending
But I am happy
But I am happy
diarmuid's review against another edition
4.0
The worst (main) Malazan book yet is still a good read. Erikson's prose, world, and characters are a delight as usual, but the book is simply too long for what little happens. Previous Malazan entries have also been long, and for the most part slow, but this is really just a crawl. Pretty much nothing happens for the first 75% of the book, or ~950 pages! This problem seems to have started with Reapers Gale, but at least there it picked up the pace halfway through, and the first half wasn't so slow as this.
I loved the return to Genabackis, the opening was nice and well written, really got me invested, and the level of writing was very high even throughout the boring bits. Some scenes were just immaculately done, such as the "spiders" when Snell attacks Harlo.
Many of the storylines are decent on their own, there were just too many of them squeezed in (so it was a long time before we returned to any particular one) and a lot of them didn't have much impact in the end. Harlo, K'ruls Bar, Cutter & Chalice, Rallick, Torvald, everything Baruk, to name a few. Now, all of the above I would be happy to read, as of course we need some less important characters to flesh out the world and add texture to the story, but the ratio was just too heavily on people who didn't do anything. For example, Traveller and Karsa were interesting the whole way through as you _knew_ they would be doing something cool later.
The end is really what redeems the story, last 300 pages or so are easy 5 star. No more needs to be said really, it was just a lot of cool stuff and emotional beats. However, I feel like it didn't seem to come together cohesively as well as previous books, possibly because of the majority of the book being slow. It feels like the ending stood alone from the rest of the book, apart from some scene setting - could easily have cut the book down to 600 pages of plot. Maybe it's just that the magic of suspension of disbelief didn't kick in as hard as the book didn't have as much momentum going into the finale. Some things just felt contrived (and I know, Shafowthrone and Cotillion were pulling strings, but still). Why do Hood and Rake agree to have their meeting in Darujistan, a city full of powerful individuals and more coming? Could they not have done it in Black Coral, or a random field? Why did Dassem kill Rake, and what did Karsa mean that he cheated? Surely if he really wants Hood he would want to be slain by Dragnipur? Killing Rake literally gets him nothing, as evidenced by him just leaving afterwards. And why doesn't Rake tell him what's going on? Does he know he won't listen?
I felt the book suffered from a lot of tell, don't show. People kept saying "Darujistan is in danger" when the city looked totally fine. There really was no danger bubbling up, it was just that a few powerful guys showed up to duke it out. In fact, it was just the Hounds that did any damage of note (plus maybe a few streets taken out by Spite and Envy)! Still don't know why Shafowthrone let them loose. For all the time we spent in our tale of two cities, the dangers really felt external which feels like a missed opportunity for something to well up naturally. Like Humble Measure and his mines went nowhere, and Baruks plotline just died. That Tlan Imass being eaten by the Azath was very funny but unsatisfying. Baruk in particular was really annoying, as Darujistan being in danger was dropped, along with the T'orrud being immortal, by the Second when talking to Cutter all the way back in Bonehunters. Very cool! Something is happening in Darujistan and he must rush back to save it! Well, turns out nothing is happening atm, but in a while the city will be attacked and have one bad night. The epilogue seems to be hinting at this plotline being taken up in the later books, which feels a bit silly as I don't want another book about Darujistan being in danger! This is the second already. I know I'm focusing on Darujistan here, that is because of course Black Coral was the worse story. Once the people travelling ended up in Darujistan Erikson even stopped giving it whole chapters to itself. While I love a good Tiste Andii story, this place just seemed boring. I didn't much care for the city. And it seemed that Silanah and/or Rake could have sorted things out at any point but chose not to. Silanah doesn't even do anything all book! Itkovian returning was nice though, and this is the least I've disliked Nimanders crew. In fact, I actually liked them after Bastion. Maybe they just needed Clip so that they seemed less annoying in comparison.
While I'm focusing on the negatives here, I did ultimately enjoy the book, it's just that the positives are positives for every Malazan book, so don't bear mentioning. I just worry for the remaining books, as the first 6 despite being long and dense were definitely packed full of content. This and RG both suffered from an explosion in POVs and slow pacing (related?). This one didn't even have any military action! While RG managed to pull back together once the Bonehunters arrive, this one relies solely on its ending, and so doesn't quite reach the echelons of previous ones.
Now, finally time to read another book! No Malazan for a few months while I get my numbers up elsewhere.
Edit: Further: why did Rake fight Dassem instead of just killing himself? Where did the hounds of light come from, why are there 10, and who is the master (will probably be explained)? How convenient that the moon, after Bonehunters, decides to explode that day.
I loved the return to Genabackis, the opening was nice and well written, really got me invested, and the level of writing was very high even throughout the boring bits. Some scenes were just immaculately done, such as the "spiders" when Snell attacks Harlo.
Many of the storylines are decent on their own, there were just too many of them squeezed in (so it was a long time before we returned to any particular one) and a lot of them didn't have much impact in the end. Harlo, K'ruls Bar, Cutter & Chalice, Rallick, Torvald, everything Baruk, to name a few. Now, all of the above I would be happy to read, as of course we need some less important characters to flesh out the world and add texture to the story, but the ratio was just too heavily on people who didn't do anything. For example, Traveller and Karsa were interesting the whole way through as you _knew_ they would be doing something cool later.
The end is really what redeems the story, last 300 pages or so are easy 5 star. No more needs to be said really, it was just a lot of cool stuff and emotional beats. However, I feel like it didn't seem to come together cohesively as well as previous books, possibly because of the majority of the book being slow. It feels like the ending stood alone from the rest of the book, apart from some scene setting - could easily have cut the book down to 600 pages of plot. Maybe it's just that the magic of suspension of disbelief didn't kick in as hard as the book didn't have as much momentum going into the finale. Some things just felt contrived (and I know, Shafowthrone and Cotillion were pulling strings, but still). Why do Hood and Rake agree to have their meeting in Darujistan, a city full of powerful individuals and more coming? Could they not have done it in Black Coral, or a random field? Why did Dassem kill Rake, and what did Karsa mean that he cheated? Surely if he really wants Hood he would want to be slain by Dragnipur? Killing Rake literally gets him nothing, as evidenced by him just leaving afterwards. And why doesn't Rake tell him what's going on? Does he know he won't listen?
I felt the book suffered from a lot of tell, don't show. People kept saying "Darujistan is in danger" when the city looked totally fine. There really was no danger bubbling up, it was just that a few powerful guys showed up to duke it out. In fact, it was just the Hounds that did any damage of note (plus maybe a few streets taken out by Spite and Envy)! Still don't know why Shafowthrone let them loose. For all the time we spent in our tale of two cities, the dangers really felt external which feels like a missed opportunity for something to well up naturally. Like Humble Measure and his mines went nowhere, and Baruks plotline just died. That Tlan Imass being eaten by the Azath was very funny but unsatisfying. Baruk in particular was really annoying, as Darujistan being in danger was dropped, along with the T'orrud being immortal, by the Second when talking to Cutter all the way back in Bonehunters. Very cool! Something is happening in Darujistan and he must rush back to save it! Well, turns out nothing is happening atm, but in a while the city will be attacked and have one bad night. The epilogue seems to be hinting at this plotline being taken up in the later books, which feels a bit silly as I don't want another book about Darujistan being in danger! This is the second already. I know I'm focusing on Darujistan here, that is because of course Black Coral was the worse story. Once the people travelling ended up in Darujistan Erikson even stopped giving it whole chapters to itself. While I love a good Tiste Andii story, this place just seemed boring. I didn't much care for the city. And it seemed that Silanah and/or Rake could have sorted things out at any point but chose not to. Silanah doesn't even do anything all book! Itkovian returning was nice though, and this is the least I've disliked Nimanders crew. In fact, I actually liked them after Bastion. Maybe they just needed Clip so that they seemed less annoying in comparison.
While I'm focusing on the negatives here, I did ultimately enjoy the book, it's just that the positives are positives for every Malazan book, so don't bear mentioning. I just worry for the remaining books, as the first 6 despite being long and dense were definitely packed full of content. This and RG both suffered from an explosion in POVs and slow pacing (related?). This one didn't even have any military action! While RG managed to pull back together once the Bonehunters arrive, this one relies solely on its ending, and so doesn't quite reach the echelons of previous ones.
Now, finally time to read another book! No Malazan for a few months while I get my numbers up elsewhere.
Edit: Further: why did Rake fight Dassem instead of just killing himself? Where did the hounds of light come from, why are there 10, and who is the master (will probably be explained)? How convenient that the moon, after Bonehunters, decides to explode that day.
kaytee's review against another edition
Trigger warning - sexual assault.
I'm just so tired of fantasy writers sexually assaulting women. If you're creative enough to write a world without racism, you can dispense with the misogyny too. It's brutally uncreative.
I'm just so tired of fantasy writers sexually assaulting women. If you're creative enough to write a world without racism, you can dispense with the misogyny too. It's brutally uncreative.
chasejwise's review
adventurous
challenging
dark
mysterious
sad
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
4.0
wantonjohnson's review
adventurous
dark
emotional
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
wouterk's review against another edition
5.0
Okay, this was a tough cookie. How to rate this book. Brilliance another 6 out of 5, but enjoyment for a lot of the time 3 out of 5 stars and then an ending with 10 out of 5 stars. Yes, I sadly found myself to be one of the people who got through this book slowly and getting distracted. And while I started out writing this review wanting to give it 4 stars, I changed to 5 while writing.
It is a great book and I feel it progresses nicely towards the finally in the last two books. What really helped me deal with some of the meanderings was once I realized that in this book Kruppe is the narrator in some parts. And I love Kruppe.
Minor Spoiler, but also a teaser about the best and most humorous battle in this book:
Also, it being the 8th book and Erikson's writing style really pay off by hitting me right in the heart many times. Like always characters the reader connects to are not necessarily spared and it hits impressively. And often, it is not so much the person dying itself, but the grief of the people surrounding that person that evoke sadness and crying.
Toll the Hounds brings us back to Darujhistan and ties some great storylines together and features some of my favorite characters. It is filled with more dread and despair, but also with more humour than some of the previous books. And it is clear that we are moving towards a finale as Gods are plotting more and more. Even Hood is moving in this book.
In some way it brings us full circle before the finale and references [b:Gardens of the Moon|55399|Gardens of the Moon (Malazan Book of the Fallen, #1)|Steven Erikson|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1548497031l/55399._SY75_.jpg|2646042] a lot. Darujhistan is still the same political and plotting town with a lot of intrigue and duelling. Of course we follow Crokus/Cutter who returns and there's the Phoenix Inn crew. We revisit the Malazans who started their own Darujhistan inn and see how Barathol, Chaur and Scillara fare. The book centers a lot around the Tiste Andii and Anomander Rake and we spend time within Dragnipur. Simultaneously, we get to see the continuation of the story of the Tiste Andii survivors who defended the shadow Throne and how they are being lead to Rake by Clip; which turns out quite eventful. We get a better insight in the Trygalle Guild, as Mappo enlists them to find Icarium. Also, the book follows up on the lives of the caravan crew from [b:Memories of Ice|175983|Memories of Ice (Malazan Book of the Fallen, #3)|Steven Erikson|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1548497075l/175983._SY75_.jpg|836462], Gruntle and Stonny Menackis and in some way, Harrlo. We follow Karsa Orlong and Samar Dev who cross paths with Traveller, which ties nicely in with [b:Return of the Crimson Guard|2485836|Return of the Crimson Guard (Novels of the Malazan Empire, #2)|Ian C. Esslemont|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1327981831l/2485836._SY75_.jpg|2493041].
For reading this book, I feel, it is incredibly important to be in a relaxed and focused state of mind. Erikson wrote some of the most interesting notions and reflections here, which is partly induced because of the underlying themes of this book. In Toll the Hounds, Erikson very much explores age. The Tiste Andii, Kallor, but also the victims of Dragnipur make for great characters to explore the many ways how eternity may affect us, how their lives shape each person. How does longlevity or immortality affect the mind?
Simultaneously childhood is explored very much. Erikson features different kids with different backgrounds and how nature and nurture shapes them. Chaur, in my mind, represents here being a child forever.
Building upon these themes Erikson also very interestingly juxtaposes immortality/longlevity to fragility and short-livedness in many instances in the book. My favorite is in one of the last chapters, which would be way too spoilery to share.
As always I could continue on. I've not touched upon all the characters that were awesome and cannot share all the awesome story beats. So let me just leave you with one philosophical question by Kruppe, that I loved and that every politician or board member should overthink regularly:"Witness two scenes.
In one, an angry, bitter man beats another man to death in an alley in the Gadrobi District.
In the other, a man of vast wealth conspires with equally wealthy compatriots to raise yet again the price of grain, making the cost of bread so prohibitive that families starve, are led into lives of crime, and die young.
Are both acts of violence?"
It is not really fantasy, it is fantasy used to create a treatise on life and contemporary society.
It is a great book and I feel it progresses nicely towards the finally in the last two books. What really helped me deal with some of the meanderings was once I realized that in this book Kruppe is the narrator in some parts. And I love Kruppe.
Minor Spoiler, but also a teaser about the best and most humorous battle in this book:
Spoiler
Pust also converges on Darujhistan and, both sitting on their loyal 'war mules', him and Kruppe hash it out. I lolled so much.Also, it being the 8th book and Erikson's writing style really pay off by hitting me right in the heart many times. Like always characters the reader connects to are not necessarily spared and it hits impressively. And often, it is not so much the person dying itself, but the grief of the people surrounding that person that evoke sadness and crying.
Toll the Hounds brings us back to Darujhistan and ties some great storylines together and features some of my favorite characters. It is filled with more dread and despair, but also with more humour than some of the previous books. And it is clear that we are moving towards a finale as Gods are plotting more and more. Even Hood is moving in this book.
In some way it brings us full circle before the finale and references [b:Gardens of the Moon|55399|Gardens of the Moon (Malazan Book of the Fallen, #1)|Steven Erikson|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1548497031l/55399._SY75_.jpg|2646042] a lot. Darujhistan is still the same political and plotting town with a lot of intrigue and duelling. Of course we follow Crokus/Cutter who returns and there's the Phoenix Inn crew. We revisit the Malazans who started their own Darujhistan inn and see how Barathol, Chaur and Scillara fare. The book centers a lot around the Tiste Andii and Anomander Rake and we spend time within Dragnipur. Simultaneously, we get to see the continuation of the story of the Tiste Andii survivors who defended the shadow Throne and how they are being lead to Rake by Clip; which turns out quite eventful. We get a better insight in the Trygalle Guild, as Mappo enlists them to find Icarium. Also, the book follows up on the lives of the caravan crew from [b:Memories of Ice|175983|Memories of Ice (Malazan Book of the Fallen, #3)|Steven Erikson|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1548497075l/175983._SY75_.jpg|836462], Gruntle and Stonny Menackis and in some way, Harrlo. We follow Karsa Orlong and Samar Dev who cross paths with Traveller, which ties nicely in with [b:Return of the Crimson Guard|2485836|Return of the Crimson Guard (Novels of the Malazan Empire, #2)|Ian C. Esslemont|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1327981831l/2485836._SY75_.jpg|2493041].
For reading this book, I feel, it is incredibly important to be in a relaxed and focused state of mind. Erikson wrote some of the most interesting notions and reflections here, which is partly induced because of the underlying themes of this book. In Toll the Hounds, Erikson very much explores age. The Tiste Andii, Kallor, but also the victims of Dragnipur make for great characters to explore the many ways how eternity may affect us, how their lives shape each person. How does longlevity or immortality affect the mind?
Simultaneously childhood is explored very much. Erikson features different kids with different backgrounds and how nature and nurture shapes them. Chaur, in my mind, represents here being a child forever.
Building upon these themes Erikson also very interestingly juxtaposes immortality/longlevity to fragility and short-livedness in many instances in the book. My favorite is in one of the last chapters, which would be way too spoilery to share.
As always I could continue on. I've not touched upon all the characters that were awesome and cannot share all the awesome story beats. So let me just leave you with one philosophical question by Kruppe, that I loved and that every politician or board member should overthink regularly:"Witness two scenes.
In one, an angry, bitter man beats another man to death in an alley in the Gadrobi District.
In the other, a man of vast wealth conspires with equally wealthy compatriots to raise yet again the price of grain, making the cost of bread so prohibitive that families starve, are led into lives of crime, and die young.
Are both acts of violence?"
It is not really fantasy, it is fantasy used to create a treatise on life and contemporary society.
trygalle_trade_guild's review against another edition
5.0
'Poor priest, it is late. Does your god know where you are?'
Aaah wow! This may be my favorite of the series yet
Aaah wow! This may be my favorite of the series yet
nemesis567's review against another edition
dark
emotional
mysterious
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
sjgomzi's review
5.0
Holy crap! I feel mentally and emotionally exhausted from the last 150 pages or so of this book. This was amazing, but I’m gonna need at least 1 or 2 non Malazan books to read, to recover, before tackling the final 2 books of this series.
halynah's review against another edition
5.0
Epic convergence, Raest, Harllo, Bellam, Spite and Envy compensate for the boring plotlines of Black Coral and Tiste Andii, thus - 5 stars, but I'd be truly ecstatic if someone obliterated those Tiste Andii - that's how infernally tedious I find them. Also, it would be great if Cutter vanished somewhere - he was extremely dour in this installment.