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j3rkin's review against another edition
4.0
I was worried this book was going to be a cliche, forced narrative of an LGBTQ+ teenager, but I was pleasantly surprised. The storyline followed the perspectives of both parties in the relationship, which helped unpack the motivations and character choices in greater depth. I would recommend this read for anyone who wants an understanding of the complexities faced by younger LGBTQ+ individuals. But don’t rely on this alone.
mehsi's review against another edition
1.0
Phew. I am finally done with this book. Normally if I dislike a book like I dislike this one, I would have dropped it at page 30 or 50, but I just kept going with this one. Because of Gretchen, because of the topic, because of college stuff (which always interests me). And maybe also a bit because I was hoping that Toni would finally see the effing light and get a brain.
Yeah, yeah, Toni was the biggest problem in this one. Every time we got Gretchen's POV I was delighted, but also sad that the whole book wasn't about her. Because Toni was just so damned annoying, I have NOTHING against transgenders, nothing against people who are queer, genderqueer, or whatever other term flew around in this book. I am totally OK with people figuring out their gender. However, there is one thing, or actually some more stuff I am not agreeing with. Stuff I also see around the net, stuff I first noticed on a website I frequent. The whole PUSHING, SHOVING, DEMANDING of people to use genderless/gendersafe pronouns. The bashing, the hating on everyone who DARES to just use Hey Guys, when popping up in a chat. Or the hate when people dare to call someone by their gender pronouns. Or the talk about language being sexist and trying to push your beliefs on others.
Luckily, in this book Toni also sees in that she might be hurting people by her attitude of eradicating all of the gender stuff in her sentences. Because sorry, that is what you are doing. You are doing fine for yourself, but you should also look around you, see that you might hurt people like this. Sadly, she still keeps doing it for a long time, by the time she actually starting to see that it might all go different it was too late for me.
And sorry, that wasn't all why Toni was the most horrendous, bad, craptastic character in the whole world. She was also so fucking selfish, so self-absorbed, and she couldn't even get over the fucking grudge with Gretchen, who decided to pick for herself for once. The whole Gretchen lied to me thing? That tiny little thing? Sure, it sucked, but do you need to keep on whining about it for months?
Can't you just open your eyes for once and look around you? There is a whole world around you, you are not ALONE on that globe. You are surrounded by millions, billions of people. Nice and all that you think you are so superior, but I think you, Toni, are the worst. Putting people in boxes, thinking they aren't so smart so lets not bother them with important stuff, throughout the book I just wanted to throttle Toni for being so selfish. For only thinking of herself. And sure, what she is going through is big. Is Huge. But you know? That doesn't mean that you can't talk to people about it. That doesn't mean you can just ignore people you love. That doesn't mean you act like you did throughout this book.
I could go on and on about Toni, but I will just drop it at this part. I think I have said most of what I wanted, I think my point is clear. I hated Toni, and I will always do that. She ruined the book for me. She could have been so great, she had so much potential to become a great, intriguing character who I could care about.
Then we have Gretchen, I loved the girl. She was pretty great. Sure, she had some stuff I didn't like. But in general? She was a great and also interesting girl. Her struggles with Toni, how Toni was changing was real, though I also wish she would stop with all the guilt-trips, with all the clinging. Toni isn't so great, and I can imagine that you would want to hold on to the relationship, but can't you see what is happening? Can't you see this isn't your fault?
Gretchen, girl, weren't you the one who wanted to explore the world? Who wanted to look further than just your girlfriend? Why don't you just do that. And luckily, she does that quite often, but I feel like she could have done more.
Her relationship/friendship with Carroll? Hit and miss. At times I really liked Carroll, but after a certain point in the book, I hated him. To act like this, to act like it was all Gretchen? How could you?
Still Gretchen was an interesting character, she felt the most real out of the 2 main characters.
Then we have a whole bunch of side-characters, most of them I loved, for several I felt sorry, that they had to go through that to get where they are now. I hope they can be more happy, that they can live their life as they would want it.
Their stories were really interesting and I loved how real they felt.
What else to discuss? Ah, I did like that we at times travelled back to the past, to see certain events (of course from both POVs), I really liked Toni back then, I really liked Gretchen x Toni then. Not like the now part we are mostly in.
The whole transgender part of the story was really interesting. I am not sure if everything is well represented, as I only know basic stuff about it, but I do have to say it seemed that the author did quite a bit of research about the topic. It was really interested to see the transitioning, the thought process of the characters, and how they saw things. How they dealt with family, friends, colleagues.
I wish there was a bit more focus on the whole college stuff as well. Maybe some classes, now at times the only thing we noticed about them being in college was the fact they had quite a bit of free time, did some homework.
I forgot one character. The mom. Dear Lord, what a horrendous character she was. :| How she treated Toni, how she treated her family, how she saw status and how the outside world looked at her family as more important than a daughter struggling with gender. Bleh. :|
I really was looking forward to this book. The first few pages (with Gretchen x Toni's first meeting) was just magnificent. The blurb sounded great, and I also loved Robin Talley's first book to pieces, but sadly this book just got wrong from the moment the lie came out and college started. It is such a shame. I feel really sad that I couldn't like this book.
Hopefully the next Robin Talley book will be one I will love again.
Review first posted at http://twirlingbookprincess.com/
Yeah, yeah, Toni was the biggest problem in this one. Every time we got Gretchen's POV I was delighted, but also sad that the whole book wasn't about her. Because Toni was just so damned annoying, I have NOTHING against transgenders, nothing against people who are queer, genderqueer, or whatever other term flew around in this book. I am totally OK with people figuring out their gender. However, there is one thing, or actually some more stuff I am not agreeing with. Stuff I also see around the net, stuff I first noticed on a website I frequent. The whole PUSHING, SHOVING, DEMANDING of people to use genderless/gendersafe pronouns. The bashing, the hating on everyone who DARES to just use Hey Guys, when popping up in a chat. Or the hate when people dare to call someone by their gender pronouns. Or the talk about language being sexist and trying to push your beliefs on others.
Luckily, in this book Toni also sees in that she might be hurting people by her attitude of eradicating all of the gender stuff in her sentences. Because sorry, that is what you are doing. You are doing fine for yourself, but you should also look around you, see that you might hurt people like this. Sadly, she still keeps doing it for a long time, by the time she actually starting to see that it might all go different it was too late for me.
And sorry, that wasn't all why Toni was the most horrendous, bad, craptastic character in the whole world. She was also so fucking selfish, so self-absorbed, and she couldn't even get over the fucking grudge with Gretchen, who decided to pick for herself for once. The whole Gretchen lied to me thing? That tiny little thing? Sure, it sucked, but do you need to keep on whining about it for months?
Can't you just open your eyes for once and look around you? There is a whole world around you, you are not ALONE on that globe. You are surrounded by millions, billions of people. Nice and all that you think you are so superior, but I think you, Toni, are the worst. Putting people in boxes, thinking they aren't so smart so lets not bother them with important stuff, throughout the book I just wanted to throttle Toni for being so selfish. For only thinking of herself. And sure, what she is going through is big. Is Huge. But you know? That doesn't mean that you can't talk to people about it. That doesn't mean you can just ignore people you love. That doesn't mean you act like you did throughout this book.
I could go on and on about Toni, but I will just drop it at this part. I think I have said most of what I wanted, I think my point is clear. I hated Toni, and I will always do that. She ruined the book for me. She could have been so great, she had so much potential to become a great, intriguing character who I could care about.
Then we have Gretchen, I loved the girl. She was pretty great. Sure, she had some stuff I didn't like. But in general? She was a great and also interesting girl. Her struggles with Toni, how Toni was changing was real, though I also wish she would stop with all the guilt-trips, with all the clinging. Toni isn't so great, and I can imagine that you would want to hold on to the relationship, but can't you see what is happening? Can't you see this isn't your fault?
Gretchen, girl, weren't you the one who wanted to explore the world? Who wanted to look further than just your girlfriend? Why don't you just do that. And luckily, she does that quite often, but I feel like she could have done more.
Her relationship/friendship with Carroll? Hit and miss. At times I really liked Carroll, but after a certain point in the book, I hated him. To act like this, to act like it was all Gretchen? How could you?
Still Gretchen was an interesting character, she felt the most real out of the 2 main characters.
Then we have a whole bunch of side-characters, most of them I loved, for several I felt sorry, that they had to go through that to get where they are now. I hope they can be more happy, that they can live their life as they would want it.
Their stories were really interesting and I loved how real they felt.
What else to discuss? Ah, I did like that we at times travelled back to the past, to see certain events (of course from both POVs), I really liked Toni back then, I really liked Gretchen x Toni then. Not like the now part we are mostly in.
The whole transgender part of the story was really interesting. I am not sure if everything is well represented, as I only know basic stuff about it, but I do have to say it seemed that the author did quite a bit of research about the topic. It was really interested to see the transitioning, the thought process of the characters, and how they saw things. How they dealt with family, friends, colleagues.
I wish there was a bit more focus on the whole college stuff as well. Maybe some classes, now at times the only thing we noticed about them being in college was the fact they had quite a bit of free time, did some homework.
I forgot one character. The mom. Dear Lord, what a horrendous character she was. :| How she treated Toni, how she treated her family, how she saw status and how the outside world looked at her family as more important than a daughter struggling with gender. Bleh. :|
I really was looking forward to this book. The first few pages (with Gretchen x Toni's first meeting) was just magnificent. The blurb sounded great, and I also loved Robin Talley's first book to pieces, but sadly this book just got wrong from the moment the lie came out and college started. It is such a shame. I feel really sad that I couldn't like this book.
Hopefully the next Robin Talley book will be one I will love again.
Review first posted at http://twirlingbookprincess.com/
jackiehorne's review against another edition
Got about a third of the way through this novel about a lesbian high school couple who have difficulties maintaining their relationship once they go to college, plot-wise because one of them comes to realize she's more gender-queer than lesbian, but emotion-wise, because they don't communicate at all with each other. Not a romance but a break-up story, with a great feel for what it's like, your first year at college, discovering all sorts of new kinds of people and new ideas.
What made me put this aside was less the problems a lot of readers have had, thinking the book gets what it means to be gender queer wrong (there's a difference between what some characters may think, people, and what the author is trying to say), and more with the fact that the book feels heavyhanded in its mission to convey info about what it means to be trans and what it means to be gender queer.
What made me put this aside was less the problems a lot of readers have had, thinking the book gets what it means to be gender queer wrong (there's a difference between what some characters may think, people, and what the author is trying to say), and more with the fact that the book feels heavyhanded in its mission to convey info about what it means to be trans and what it means to be gender queer.
ajb24's review against another edition
3.0
This is a good story of "discovering yourself". It asks a lot of the right questions and handles various gender issues sensitively. The characters were well developed and diverse. I think it's important and could be really meaningful for someone questioning their identity or going through the coming-out process. But.
I am not the target audience of this book.
Of course, I knew that going into it. Sometimes YA is cute enough and/or intriguing enough that I can ignore its juvenile nature. It's not like I'm crazy old either. The thing is, I've already been through the high school/college transition - while the feelings of confusion and "who am i?" I could relate to, I was frustrated for a lot of the book because I know how much college changes you. I've stayed in close contact with one person from my high school days. Granted, I didn't try to keep a relationship going, but really, high school contacts are so not worth it. So as a result, Gretchen and Toni's desperate attachment to each other got tiring pretty quickly.
Also related to Gretchen and Toni's relationship: I like who they are as individual characters, but I could not care less about if they are a couple or not. It started out as "insta-love", so already that's a pretty loose foundation of "love" for me to be invested in. It becomes clear at some point that they are moving on in life and becoming their own selves, but they mentally beat themselves up over their couple-dom soo much! I was internally screaming for them to just move on!! It's fine! High school is so insignificant once you leave I don't need to read this angst-ing.
There's even a big difference between who you hang out with 1st year vs 4th year of university. So what ends up happening with Gretchen and Carroll involves extra deliberation from Gretchen about herself and future and all that. I can see where, for someone going through that stage of life, this "soft-angst" could be really reassuring, but I just don't care. It's not written badly, I just don't need to read all of this angst-ing to feel confident in myself.
I guess it's a case of "been there, done that". 4-5 years ago this book might have really spoken to me. It may have helped reassure me through the existential crisis that is starting college and thinking you have to have your life all figured out (you don't). Thinking that how you start college will define you forever and you are nothing if you don't do it "right" (there isn't a "right" way, and you are not stuck with the choices you make in the first 3 months).
I've learned all that from living it. But this book presents these struggles through the characters of Gretchen and Toni, and they are well-written so that you can relate to the base, existential emotions even if you don't identify just like they do. If you find yourself represented in them (someone who is genderqueer/questioning or is gay/lesbian) I think that's what helps make this book a stand-out. Not for me personally, but in the overall selection of "realistic/contemporary" YA fiction, this story is an important one.
*Reading some of the other reviews, it appears that the genderqueer aspect is very misleading and not a philosophically "good" representation. I'm not gonna say that because I didn't interpret it that way, that everyone else is wrong. They make valid points and I understand their positions on what makes the genderqueer aspect problematic. However, I liked the questioning of language and gender and how it relates to oneself. It gave a little insight into that experience for me (who is not trans or has ever had to consider my "gender" in any significant way). For that reason I still like the book, despite its shortcomings in a really accurate genderqueer explanation.
I am not the target audience of this book.
Of course, I knew that going into it. Sometimes YA is cute enough and/or intriguing enough that I can ignore its juvenile nature. It's not like I'm crazy old either. The thing is, I've already been through the high school/college transition - while the feelings of confusion and "who am i?" I could relate to, I was frustrated for a lot of the book because I know how much college changes you. I've stayed in close contact with one person from my high school days. Granted, I didn't try to keep a relationship going, but really, high school contacts are so not worth it. So as a result, Gretchen and Toni's desperate attachment to each other got tiring pretty quickly.
Also related to Gretchen and Toni's relationship: I like who they are as individual characters, but I could not care less about if they are a couple or not. It started out as "insta-love", so already that's a pretty loose foundation of "love" for me to be invested in. It becomes clear at some point that they are moving on in life and becoming their own selves, but they mentally beat themselves up over their couple-dom soo much! I was internally screaming for them to just move on!! It's fine! High school is so insignificant once you leave I don't need to read this angst-ing.
There's even a big difference between who you hang out with 1st year vs 4th year of university. So what ends up happening with Gretchen and Carroll involves extra deliberation from Gretchen about herself and future and all that. I can see where, for someone going through that stage of life, this "soft-angst" could be really reassuring, but I just don't care. It's not written badly, I just don't need to read all of this angst-ing to feel confident in myself.
I guess it's a case of "been there, done that". 4-5 years ago this book might have really spoken to me. It may have helped reassure me through the existential crisis that is starting college and thinking you have to have your life all figured out (you don't). Thinking that how you start college will define you forever and you are nothing if you don't do it "right" (there isn't a "right" way, and you are not stuck with the choices you make in the first 3 months).
I've learned all that from living it. But this book presents these struggles through the characters of Gretchen and Toni, and they are well-written so that you can relate to the base, existential emotions even if you don't identify just like they do. If you find yourself represented in them (someone who is genderqueer/questioning or is gay/lesbian) I think that's what helps make this book a stand-out. Not for me personally, but in the overall selection of "realistic/contemporary" YA fiction, this story is an important one.
*Reading some of the other reviews, it appears that the genderqueer aspect is very misleading and not a philosophically "good" representation. I'm not gonna say that because I didn't interpret it that way, that everyone else is wrong. They make valid points and I understand their positions on what makes the genderqueer aspect problematic. However, I liked the questioning of language and gender and how it relates to oneself. It gave a little insight into that experience for me (who is not trans or has ever had to consider my "gender" in any significant way). For that reason I still like the book, despite its shortcomings in a really accurate genderqueer explanation.
hayleybeale's review against another edition
5.0
This wonderful mature and sophisticated novel is narrated by Toni and Gretchen - a couple who test the truism that long distance relationships don't work, when one goes to Harvard and the other to NYU. In their own ways, they seek to define themselves and how that person fits into a relationship with the other. Read my full review here.
Reviewed from an ARC.
Reviewed from an ARC.
jazzinbuns's review against another edition
5.0
This is the kind of different that we need. I haven't read many books centered on LGBTQ+. It considered the exploration some teens/young adults go through when discovering themselves and it was exactly what I needed.
missbookiverse's review against another edition
3.0
Eigentlich wollte ich ja damit anfangen das Buch zu loben, weil es so vielfältig informiert. Es geht um Themen wie die richtigen Pronomen (oder überhaupt welche?), um die Identifikation mit dem eigenen (oder eben nicht) Geschlecht, um das “transitioning” von Transgendern und noch viel mehr. Blöd nur, dass mich zahlreiche Rezensionen im Anschluss darüber informiert haben, dass der Begriff “genderqueer” hier anscheinend falsch verwendet wird. Toni identifiziert sich über große Teile des Buches mit diesem Begriff, es wird aber schnell klar, dass es Toni in die Transgender-Richtung zieht und so wirkt es, als wäre “genderqueer” einfach eine Phase, in der jemand noch nicht so recht weiß, was xer (das ist ein mögliches geschlechtsneutrales Pronomen) eigentlich möchte. Ähnlich wie manche Bisexualität nur als eine “Phase des Ausprobierens” sehen und nicht als tatsächliche Orientierung. Mir selbst ist unmöglich zu beurteilen, ob das jetzt falsche Informationen oder eine Frage der Auslegung ist. Viele der Begriffe zu dem Thema sind sehr schwammig und für persönliche Interpretationen offen.
Wer das außer Acht lassen kann, bekommt eine Menge Gedankenfutter. Es werden zahlreiche Aspekte beleuchtet und meistens wird klar, dass es zwar Vor- und Nachteile, aber keine perfekte Antwort gibt. Jede/r muss eben für sich selbst entscheiden, ob und wie xer Pronomen benutzen möchte, oder ob es respektlos ist geschlechtsneutrale Anreden zu verwenden, wenn die Person z.B. trans ist und sich eindeutig als Mann identifiziert. Die meisten dieser Gedanken brütet Toni in Tonis Kopf aus und da kann es schon mal sehr verwirrend zugehen, was wiederum passt, weil es unglaublich überwältigend sein muss, wenn man merkt, dass das bei der Geburt zugewiesene Geschlecht nicht mit der eigenen Persönlichkeit übereinstimmt.
Leider überschatten diese Themen alles andere. Die Beziehungsprobleme von Toni und Gretchen konnte ich gar nicht richtig ernst nehmen, weil immer nur behauptet wurde wie sehr sie sich lieben. Zu spüren gab es davon wenig und viel Persönlichkeit außerhalb ihrer Geschlechtsidentitäten hatten sie auch nicht. Dabei hat Gretchen eigentlich Potenzial mit ihrer Liebe zu New York und ihrem Drang eine gute Freundin zu sein. Ich fand es so nachvollziehbar, wie sie sich manchmal nicht traut bei Toni noch mal nachzufragen, weil sie findet, dass sie vieles schon wissen oder erahnen sollte. Meisten besteht der College-Alltag der beiden aber aus zu wenig Schlaf, viel Lernerei, Gender-Debatten, Partys und Alkohol.
Wer das außer Acht lassen kann, bekommt eine Menge Gedankenfutter. Es werden zahlreiche Aspekte beleuchtet und meistens wird klar, dass es zwar Vor- und Nachteile, aber keine perfekte Antwort gibt. Jede/r muss eben für sich selbst entscheiden, ob und wie xer Pronomen benutzen möchte, oder ob es respektlos ist geschlechtsneutrale Anreden zu verwenden, wenn die Person z.B. trans ist und sich eindeutig als Mann identifiziert. Die meisten dieser Gedanken brütet Toni in Tonis Kopf aus und da kann es schon mal sehr verwirrend zugehen, was wiederum passt, weil es unglaublich überwältigend sein muss, wenn man merkt, dass das bei der Geburt zugewiesene Geschlecht nicht mit der eigenen Persönlichkeit übereinstimmt.
Leider überschatten diese Themen alles andere. Die Beziehungsprobleme von Toni und Gretchen konnte ich gar nicht richtig ernst nehmen, weil immer nur behauptet wurde wie sehr sie sich lieben. Zu spüren gab es davon wenig und viel Persönlichkeit außerhalb ihrer Geschlechtsidentitäten hatten sie auch nicht. Dabei hat Gretchen eigentlich Potenzial mit ihrer Liebe zu New York und ihrem Drang eine gute Freundin zu sein. Ich fand es so nachvollziehbar, wie sie sich manchmal nicht traut bei Toni noch mal nachzufragen, weil sie findet, dass sie vieles schon wissen oder erahnen sollte. Meisten besteht der College-Alltag der beiden aber aus zu wenig Schlaf, viel Lernerei, Gender-Debatten, Partys und Alkohol.
aelong1399's review against another edition
3.0
I love Robin Talley’s writing, and it was awesome to see a gender non-conforming character.
ethanssss's review against another edition
3.0
very good book, amazing character development for Toni/Tony. Gretchin's e character was nice but not a great development. She felt like more of a side character to me.
Over all great book and worth a read.
Over all great book and worth a read.
kphelps's review against another edition
2.0
2.5???? I have a problem with a good chunk of the characters in this book AND a lot of what happens. (Carroll's character is a straight-up asshole and nothing he does is okay.) But I do think this topic is important, especially for YA - so I'm definitely glad I read it.