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2.82 AVERAGE
2.82 AVERAGE
A really poignant novel about how sometimes, people grow apart and relationships end and it's no one's fault....but the novel as a whole is weakened by an ending that fails to commit to that idea.
*SPOILER ALERT and really a long rant on why cis people should not write trans characters unless they actually know what they're talking about/in collaboration with a trans author*
DISCLAIMER: I am non-binary, a POC and queer.
So this was about a high school couple who go off to different colleges and they try to keep things together. However, one is genderqueer, the other is a cis-lesbian. The genderqueer partner was against the gender binary and at several different points in the book refer to other people using neutral pronouns even if they use male or female pronouns. They try to project their views onto others, ignoring the fact that people find solace and empowerment in gendered spaces and language, especially as a binary trans person.
The author treats genderqueer as a phase or stepping stone into a binary category. Being genderqueer is NOT A PHASE. I mean, for some who question their identity, yes, they do go through lots of labels, or the "gender identity handbook" as one of the character's calls it. There was more talk on gender and gendered language than there was on the actual plot of this book - which was highschool sweethearts who leave for college. Everything reverted back to gender. Whilst reading, I just couldn't get my head around this obsession with Tony's gender on every other page. Yes, I agree, it can get to that point where you obsess about it - I firmly agree - however, other shit goes on. What about TV shows, movies, meeting new friends, doing laundry, buying new clothes, going to see a concert, changing music tastes, changing clothes taste, the environment. I think I would have liked to see more descriptive scenes to break up the monotony of gender talk. I felt like it was just an excuse to talk about gender, and not even in a successful way because if you were not trans or knew much about the non-binary community, you'd come away thinking all of this crap that isn't accurate because how people "do" gender is subjective and that's awesome. THIS BOOK DOES NOT SHOW THAT. All the trans dudes, though I appreciate the racial diversity 110%, are mostly or solely into women. No we are not. It's one of the defining factor of being trans: one's sexuality, pronouns, the desire for medical transition, dysphoria, pronouns. There has been a MEDICALISATION OF THE TRANS COMMUNITY and the body is the focus and it ANNOYS ME - I think Tony would have had a better time figuring out his gender if there was less focus on the body and more focus on identity - how he views himself separate to others, as opposed to how he views himself next to other trans people and their medical transition and body dysphoria.
I wanted to like this book - I did. I liked Tony, and I think that his struggle to figure stuff out is what many of us go through when we transition or question our gender. But I didn't like how Robin Talley approached it. She may as well have got together with actual trans people to write a book promoting trans discourse, instead of trying to wrap a poorly written book on TRANS ISSUES from a NON-TRANS LESBIAN point of view in shiny rainbow paper.
DISCLAIMER: I am non-binary, a POC and queer.
So this was about a high school couple who go off to different colleges and they try to keep things together. However, one is genderqueer, the other is a cis-lesbian. The genderqueer partner was against the gender binary and at several different points in the book refer to other people using neutral pronouns even if they use male or female pronouns. They try to project their views onto others, ignoring the fact that people find solace and empowerment in gendered spaces and language, especially as a binary trans person.
The author treats genderqueer as a phase or stepping stone into a binary category. Being genderqueer is NOT A PHASE. I mean, for some who question their identity, yes, they do go through lots of labels, or the "gender identity handbook" as one of the character's calls it. There was more talk on gender and gendered language than there was on the actual plot of this book - which was highschool sweethearts who leave for college. Everything reverted back to gender. Whilst reading, I just couldn't get my head around this obsession with Tony's gender on every other page. Yes, I agree, it can get to that point where you obsess about it - I firmly agree - however, other shit goes on. What about TV shows, movies, meeting new friends, doing laundry, buying new clothes, going to see a concert, changing music tastes, changing clothes taste, the environment. I think I would have liked to see more descriptive scenes to break up the monotony of gender talk. I felt like it was just an excuse to talk about gender, and not even in a successful way because if you were not trans or knew much about the non-binary community, you'd come away thinking all of this crap that isn't accurate because how people "do" gender is subjective and that's awesome. THIS BOOK DOES NOT SHOW THAT. All the trans dudes, though I appreciate the racial diversity 110%, are mostly or solely into women. No we are not. It's one of the defining factor of being trans: one's sexuality, pronouns, the desire for medical transition, dysphoria, pronouns. There has been a MEDICALISATION OF THE TRANS COMMUNITY and the body is the focus and it ANNOYS ME - I think Tony would have had a better time figuring out his gender if there was less focus on the body and more focus on identity - how he views himself separate to others, as opposed to how he views himself next to other trans people and their medical transition and body dysphoria.
I wanted to like this book - I did. I liked Tony, and I think that his struggle to figure stuff out is what many of us go through when we transition or question our gender. But I didn't like how Robin Talley approached it. She may as well have got together with actual trans people to write a book promoting trans discourse, instead of trying to wrap a poorly written book on TRANS ISSUES from a NON-TRANS LESBIAN point of view in shiny rainbow paper.
Original de: El Blog del Gato - El Extraño Gato del Cuento
¿No te han tocado libros que luego de leer un par de capítulos, estás seguro que odiaras a un personaje, porque sientes que no hay nada en este mundo que haga que te agrade dicho personaje, pero luego terminas sorprendiéndote tu mismo cuando dicho personaje te termina agradando? ¿No? Eso me pasó con What We Left Behind, esta libro tiene varias características que normalmente me hacen terminar con una sensación amarga, solo que la manera como se maneja la historia me llevó a querer que estos personajes superarán sus problemas y terminaran bien.
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¿No te han tocado libros que luego de leer un par de capítulos, estás seguro que odiaras a un personaje, porque sientes que no hay nada en este mundo que haga que te agrade dicho personaje, pero luego terminas sorprendiéndote tu mismo cuando dicho personaje te termina agradando? ¿No? Eso me pasó con What We Left Behind, esta libro tiene varias características que normalmente me hacen terminar con una sensación amarga, solo que la manera como se maneja la historia me llevó a querer que estos personajes superarán sus problemas y terminaran bien.
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this was a reread, and it was definitely worse the second time lmfao
more thoughts coming in the next day or so, but...safe to say this book made me unnecessarily angry.
more thoughts coming in the next day or so, but...safe to say this book made me unnecessarily angry.
tense
fast-paced
Strong character development:
Complicated
Loveable characters:
Complicated
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Complicated
I'm a mentor in a local youth led LGBTQ+ virtual group & was asked to read this as a part of an upcoming meeting. Since it was picked by one of the teens there & since I am currently off work recovering from top surgery, it seemed like the perfect time to read this.
I hate to say it but this is another example of why cis people shouldn't write trans narratives. I don't think it's impossible for cis people to understand or even eventually write trans characters well, but this is not the case here.
Toni is extremely privileged, extremely pretentious, literally misgenders everyone including other trans people through most of the book and just in general bothers me. We all make mistakes and mature throughout college & as our understanding of ourselves grows - especially when you're trans. But it just paints such an unflattering look on transitioning itself, that it truly is something self centered and never take into account the cis people in their lives. Gretchen is codependent and simply allows it to happen. It does not read as a healthy relationship at all and the only criticisms of this are from characters you're not really supposed to like and so understand as being wrong/rude in that moment.
Not that trans people cant be wrong or problematic or whatever, but I don't think this is the kind of representation we need right now.
I hate to say it but this is another example of why cis people shouldn't write trans narratives. I don't think it's impossible for cis people to understand or even eventually write trans characters well, but this is not the case here.
Toni is extremely privileged, extremely pretentious, literally misgenders everyone including other trans people through most of the book and just in general bothers me. We all make mistakes and mature throughout college & as our understanding of ourselves grows - especially when you're trans. But it just paints such an unflattering look on transitioning itself, that it truly is something self centered and never take into account the cis people in their lives. Gretchen is codependent and simply allows it to happen. It does not read as a healthy relationship at all and the only criticisms of this are from characters you're not really supposed to like and so understand as being wrong/rude in that moment.
Not that trans people cant be wrong or problematic or whatever, but I don't think this is the kind of representation we need right now.
2.5???? I have a problem with a good chunk of the characters in this book AND a lot of what happens. (Carroll's character is a straight-up asshole and nothing he does is okay.) But I do think this topic is important, especially for YA - so I'm definitely glad I read it.
I can't even explain how much I love this story.
The first and most obvious reason is that it's amazing. I love Gretchen and Toni, and I love the fact that there is no real villain in this story. These are two people who love each other and who don't mean to hurt each other. This isn't deliberate cruelty on either's part.
I probably especially love Toni because she reminds me of the woman I had a crush on in college. (Oh, you guys, she was wonderful. She was smart and cute and political and unapologetically feminist and we could've been together forever if she had just liked me back.) And I was also not unlike Toni in college, because that's when I was coming out too, and I didn't yet get how to be gay without having that be the most defining aspect of my personality. So yes, Toni was a little bit annoying but annoying in the way where you're like, "Yeah, I did that" and cringing. (Hello, young Kelly. I have missed you.)
But you know what this book is? It's a lesbian Forever (the Judy Blume one, although I hope I don't have to clarify). And that's kind of a spoiler, although honestly, we don't know what happens with Gretchen and Toni.
And that's okay.
I am completely obsessed with this book and it confirmed what I was pretty sure was going to be true from Lies We Tell Ourselves: I am going to read everything Robin Talley puts out. Everything, always. (And the next book is a YA retelling of Macbeth!)
Highly, highly recommended.
The first and most obvious reason is that it's amazing. I love Gretchen and Toni, and I love the fact that there is no real villain in this story. These are two people who love each other and who don't mean to hurt each other. This isn't deliberate cruelty on either's part.
I probably especially love Toni because she reminds me of the woman I had a crush on in college. (Oh, you guys, she was wonderful. She was smart and cute and political and unapologetically feminist and we could've been together forever if she had just liked me back.) And I was also not unlike Toni in college, because that's when I was coming out too, and I didn't yet get how to be gay without having that be the most defining aspect of my personality. So yes, Toni was a little bit annoying but annoying in the way where you're like, "Yeah, I did that" and cringing. (Hello, young Kelly. I have missed you.)
But you know what this book is? It's a lesbian Forever (the Judy Blume one, although I hope I don't have to clarify). And that's kind of a spoiler, although honestly, we don't know what happens with Gretchen and Toni.
And that's okay.
I am completely obsessed with this book and it confirmed what I was pretty sure was going to be true from Lies We Tell Ourselves: I am going to read everything Robin Talley puts out. Everything, always. (And the next book is a YA retelling of Macbeth!)
Highly, highly recommended.
Pretty disappointing, frankly. Especially because I loved "Lies We Tell Ourselves" so much.
Yet another trans book by a cis author that was 90% introspection and angst about gender identity, clearly involving a lot of research on the author's part, but somehow still managed to be hella problematic, from Toni's refusal to use other people's correct pronouns to the conflation of "genderqueer" with "confused but probably on the path to being a trans guy" to everything about Carroll (like, seriously, were we supposed to find Carroll even remotely likable?).
Look, I'm cis, and even I could tell that there were some serious problems here.
There was a lot of really good, valuable stuff being said, too, but I'm afraid that a lot of cis readers wouldn't be able to separate out the genuine/positive/realistic from the problematic/inaccurate (myself included, though I was trying my hardest).
And aside from the detailed but problematic exploration of queerness, there wasn't much else for me to hold onto, story-wise. Some parts of the college first year experience rang true, but overall, the plot was weak (basically just Toni being confused about T's identity and Toni and Gretchen angsting about the same problems in their relationship for chapter after chapter without any real changes in either situation until the end), the (developed) relationships and friendships all felt incredibly toxic and dysfunctional, and there were hardly any likable characters who received any development at all (Eli and Audrey were my favorites, but they were both so peripheral).
This book just left a sour taste in my mouth, which sucked, because it looked *so promising.* But it didn't come through for me.
Yet another trans book by a cis author that was 90% introspection and angst about gender identity, clearly involving a lot of research on the author's part, but somehow still managed to be hella problematic, from Toni's refusal to use other people's correct pronouns to the conflation of "genderqueer" with "confused but probably on the path to being a trans guy" to everything about Carroll (like, seriously, were we supposed to find Carroll even remotely likable?).
Look, I'm cis, and even I could tell that there were some serious problems here.
There was a lot of really good, valuable stuff being said, too, but I'm afraid that a lot of cis readers wouldn't be able to separate out the genuine/positive/realistic from the problematic/inaccurate (myself included, though I was trying my hardest).
And aside from the detailed but problematic exploration of queerness, there wasn't much else for me to hold onto, story-wise.
This book just left a sour taste in my mouth, which sucked, because it looked *so promising.* But it didn't come through for me.