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2.82 AVERAGE
2.82 AVERAGE
I liked Gretchen but really didn't Toni. Gets mad at her mom for not being happy about her decision when she just came up with it on a whim? I would only be okay with it if they had given it a serious thought and knew 100% that it is what they want. Its a serious life changing decision and Toni was so mixed up about it which is fine so long as you don't determine anything until you are sure and Toni wasn't.
Feminism also, although I prefer the term equalist, is about women seen as equal as men. What does that have to do with femininity? Because apparently in this book, you either are trans or your cis? That if you are genderqueer means you're confused and undecided? Fuck that. I aint trans or cis and I know exactly what I am. Why do you have to have a sex change and be called him, why can't you just be comfortable being masculine and a female? Why is that never an option? Why is someone like me never taken seriously, never talked about.
This book was very black and white and went so far into diversty that those who weren't diversed were majority of the time the bad people. Seriously? Just think, if it had been the other way round, and this novel was mostly straight people who looked down upon gay people? Wouldn't be acceptable, would it? Well it works the other way round too.
Apart from those issues, like I said I really liked Gretchen and although there were many ends left untied, it was an enjoyable okay read. Just didn't have to be so offensive.
Feminism also, although I prefer the term equalist, is about women seen as equal as men. What does that have to do with femininity? Because apparently in this book, you either are trans or your cis? That if you are genderqueer means you're confused and undecided? Fuck that. I aint trans or cis and I know exactly what I am. Why do you have to have a sex change and be called him, why can't you just be comfortable being masculine and a female? Why is that never an option? Why is someone like me never taken seriously, never talked about.
This book was very black and white and went so far into diversty that those who weren't diversed were majority of the time the bad people. Seriously? Just think, if it had been the other way round, and this novel was mostly straight people who looked down upon gay people? Wouldn't be acceptable, would it? Well it works the other way round too.
Apart from those issues, like I said I really liked Gretchen and although there were many ends left untied, it was an enjoyable okay read. Just didn't have to be so offensive.
While it was a bit too fluffy for me at times and some of the secondary characters came off kind of flat it was a quick and light hearted read. Definitely a good pool side book.
emotional
reflective
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
Character
Strong character development:
Complicated
Loveable characters:
No
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
Gahhhhh. I really didn't like spending time with either of our main characters - I love characters that are hard to like, but these two just kind of... slogged. Maybe it's because this hit too close to home of my messy relationship that I held on to for too long, but I just wanted to shake them & yell at them to just break the fuck up already. I can't speak to whether this is good gnc/trans rep, but it does use heavy-handed language to try to "educate" the reader, and this book DEFINITELY treats bisexuality as analogous to frivolity. This is a shame, this could have been really good.
this book is so aggressively homophobic and transphobic, which is really really really disappointing from a book that's filled to the brim with lgbt+ characters. like, carroll's constant use of casual slurs towards lesbians and trans people, even though he's not a member of either group?? his constant referral to toni as being female, even though he knows they aren't???? his offensive language surrounding toni transitioning???? gretchen's lack of speaking up for toni when others misgender them or use offensive language???? toni's trans and gnc friends' constantly pressuring them to transition, even though they clearly aren't certain of what they want yet??? the general invalidation !!from literal trans and gnc characters!! of the label genderqueer and the concept of it being complete in and of itself. genderqueer is not a "transitionary" label! it's a valid identity by itself!
im really really disappointed by this, and im not going to finish it. i had such high expectations and was massively let down.
im really really disappointed by this, and im not going to finish it. i had such high expectations and was massively let down.
I've wanted to read this book for a while now. It was one of my Waiting on Wednesday picks in May of last year. It was in my top ten books I wanted to get to (but didn't a chance to read) a couple of weeks ago.
First, I want to say that I really loved Lies We Tell Ourselves. There was an interesting story with diverse characters and the writing was fantastic. It set the bar for Robin Talley's next book very high for me. Then, I saw the blurb for What We Left Behind and I was so excited! It called to me. I wanted this wonderful sounding book with a genderqueer character.
Secondly, is this book a solid representation of what it means to be genderqueer? As a side note, I am cisgender. I have no personal knowledge of what it means to be transgender (or even genderqueer). I am very open to learn about being transgender/genderqueer. I've watched videos on YouTube. I've read things. However, I am not claiming to understand these struggles. I don't. That being said, I've read numerous reviews on Goodreads that state What We Left Behind isn't a good representation of what it means to be genderqueer. Again, I can't speak personally, but I believe I can form an educated opinion. And it feels to me like this isn't a solid representation of being genderqueer. It feels like being genderqueer is treated as a transitional period from cisgender to transgender in this book rather than a legitimate identity.
I feel like the story was weaker in What We Left Behind than it was in Lies We Tell Ourselves. I was perfectly fine with the story focusing on Toni and figuring out their identity while the relationship took more of a backseat, but it just... ugh! I wasn't sure if I was reading a novel or a text book half of the time.
To top it all off, I didn't really like any of the characters. They all kind of sucked. And can someone tell me why, after some of the outrageous things he said, Gretchen was friends with Carroll?
First, I want to say that I really loved Lies We Tell Ourselves. There was an interesting story with diverse characters and the writing was fantastic. It set the bar for Robin Talley's next book very high for me. Then, I saw the blurb for What We Left Behind and I was so excited! It called to me. I wanted this wonderful sounding book with a genderqueer character.
Secondly, is this book a solid representation of what it means to be genderqueer? As a side note, I am cisgender. I have no personal knowledge of what it means to be transgender (or even genderqueer). I am very open to learn about being transgender/genderqueer. I've watched videos on YouTube. I've read things. However, I am not claiming to understand these struggles. I don't. That being said, I've read numerous reviews on Goodreads that state What We Left Behind isn't a good representation of what it means to be genderqueer. Again, I can't speak personally, but I believe I can form an educated opinion. And it feels to me like this isn't a solid representation of being genderqueer. It feels like being genderqueer is treated as a transitional period from cisgender to transgender in this book rather than a legitimate identity.
I feel like the story was weaker in What We Left Behind than it was in Lies We Tell Ourselves. I was perfectly fine with the story focusing on Toni and figuring out their identity while the relationship took more of a backseat, but it just... ugh! I wasn't sure if I was reading a novel or a text book half of the time.
To top it all off, I didn't really like any of the characters. They all kind of sucked. And can someone tell me why, after some of the outrageous things he said, Gretchen was friends with Carroll?
This was actually much better than I was led to expect it would be?? The number of one-star reviews is stunning me. I have to think it's mismatched expectations---this presents superficially as an Educational, Representation-Fueled YA Novel and as a Romance Novel but it's neither.
What We Left Behind doesn't edumicate the reader about the proper meanings of terms---Toni is messy and self-righteous and frequently kind of a dick and has no idea what's going on with Toni, and it's all very developmentally appropriate for an 18 year old. The representation trans people actually need, tyvm.
Readers freaking out that Toni isn't firm in Toni's identity as genderqueer and that it happens to be, in T's case, a stepping stone on the way to figuring out T's gender identity are way off the mark. Sorry to have to tell you that it's ~valid~ to not come out of the womb knowing how you identify! Sorry to have to tell you that other trans people can sometimes be jerks and make assumptions about you and your journey! Those are very common experiences, and it doesn't make anyone involved irredeemable.
Carroll is... hm. I finally got what the author was aiming for at the end, and I retrospectively think the arc was interesting and important to the story, but up until then it's a complete headscratcher. I think his specific offensive comments could have been toned down a lot for a greater overall effect; he doesn't have to be bigoted repeatedly and in every single direction at once in order to get across that he's rude and doesn't learn from being corrected.
People fighting over who gets to identify as "lesbian" is the most boring shit on god's green internet, so I enjoyed
3.5/5, rounded up because I do think some of the ratings are unfair. I've liked a few Robin Talley books, it looks like---clearly should seek more out.
Spoiler
I *liked* the ending, but I can see why a romance reader expecting an HEA would be put off.What We Left Behind doesn't edumicate the reader about the proper meanings of terms---Toni is messy and self-righteous and frequently kind of a dick and has no idea what's going on with Toni, and it's all very developmentally appropriate for an 18 year old. The representation trans people actually need, tyvm.
Spoiler
Where Gretchen messes up is not asking the wrong questions but being too scared of messing up to ask questions---!! It's a different kind of interpersonal pain than asking the possibly-offensive questions and expressing the possibly-offensive feelings, as the sister does, but the thesis of the book is that you need to express things to get past them, and overthinking does not actually accomplish the same thing.Readers freaking out that Toni isn't firm in Toni's identity as genderqueer and that it happens to be, in T's case, a stepping stone on the way to figuring out T's gender identity are way off the mark. Sorry to have to tell you that it's ~valid~ to not come out of the womb knowing how you identify! Sorry to have to tell you that other trans people can sometimes be jerks and make assumptions about you and your journey! Those are very common experiences, and it doesn't make anyone involved irredeemable.
Carroll is... hm. I finally got what the author was aiming for at the end, and I retrospectively think the arc was interesting and important to the story, but up until then it's a complete headscratcher. I think his specific offensive comments could have been toned down a lot for a greater overall effect; he doesn't have to be bigoted repeatedly and in every single direction at once in order to get across that he's rude and doesn't learn from being corrected.
People fighting over who gets to identify as "lesbian" is the most boring shit on god's green internet, so I enjoyed
Spoiler
when Gretchen and Carroll sleep together. Gretchen just goes "well, that was a thing that happened" and doesn't doubt her sexuality for a moment; only other characters are confused. It was actually a really sweet moment between G and C that made me much more sympathetic to both. They both needed comfort and they emotionally support each other and took it too far, and G is mature enough to understand that and let it go, while C isn't.3.5/5, rounded up because I do think some of the ratings are unfair. I've liked a few Robin Talley books, it looks like---clearly should seek more out.
adventurous
emotional
hopeful
informative
sad
tense
medium-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
Character
Strong character development:
Yes
Loveable characters:
Yes
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Complicated
What started off as a really compelling concept (growing apart from your partner while you grow into yourself) ended up being exceptionally preachy and kind of like a non-fiction book instead. It felt like a ton of the conversations that were included were there to inform us like a brochure in the guidance counselor's office. So many conversations sounded like a very stilted, "As you know, Bob..." thing that didn't hit the mark for me.
What I thought I was getting was a story about two characters who don't know how to handle the changes they're going through while being together (yet apart). That's unfortunately not the focus, and I think that's where this really failed for me.
Toni's a really insufferable character -- but one that I think we've all met before. But there's a lot more insufferable behavior -- and it's something that I was expecting to see a crescendo and then come-down from. When you have a character talk about how college-aged girls have no right to talk about feminism because they put bikini photos online and wear heels, I'm lost on what's going on.
I don't feel like the relationship between Toni and Gretchen was fully developed, and that was the biggest disappointment. We have a chapter of their shared point of view of how they met, but their relationship is weirdly weighed against another character's in a way that made me really uncomfortable. G&T don't ever fight, and for whatever reason they are proud of that. But it's put up as a marker against Toni's bisexual friend, where it's said the bisexual friend fought all the time with her girlfriend and then they broke up and now she's dating a boy. But then it's very purposefully stated that G&T are still together.
While I doubt there was any ill intention behind that from the author, it still raised a red flag for me.
Dunno if I'm going to be passing this one along as a recommendation for GQ representation. I don't think it hits the mark very well at all.
What I thought I was getting was a story about two characters who don't know how to handle the changes they're going through while being together (yet apart). That's unfortunately not the focus, and I think that's where this really failed for me.
Toni's a really insufferable character -- but one that I think we've all met before. But there's a lot more insufferable behavior -- and it's something that I was expecting to see a crescendo and then come-down from. When you have a character talk about how college-aged girls have no right to talk about feminism because they put bikini photos online and wear heels, I'm lost on what's going on.
I don't feel like the relationship between Toni and Gretchen was fully developed, and that was the biggest disappointment. We have a chapter of their shared point of view of how they met, but their relationship is weirdly weighed against another character's in a way that made me really uncomfortable. G&T don't ever fight, and for whatever reason they are proud of that. But it's put up as a marker against Toni's bisexual friend, where it's said the bisexual friend fought all the time with her girlfriend and then they broke up and now she's dating a boy. But then it's very purposefully stated that G&T are still together.
While I doubt there was any ill intention behind that from the author, it still raised a red flag for me.
Dunno if I'm going to be passing this one along as a recommendation for GQ representation. I don't think it hits the mark very well at all.