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noveladdiction's review against another edition
4.0
Despite being titled "Batman & Robin" - there was very little Batman in here. HOWEVER - there was a bunch of all my favorite characters - all the Robins and Batwoman. Also included were some characters that were new to me, and I ended up liking them too. I thought the Mother story arc was definitely interesting, but I'm glad it's over.... It is over, right?
captwinghead's review against another edition
3.0
3.5 stars.
I just get the feeling that either Snyder and Tynion hate Cassandra or they just don't know what to do with her because I've hated her characterization since the first volume of this series.
Cassandra Cain is one of my top 5 favorite comic book characters.
I say that to preface that I'm probably more inclined to be pissed about this book's butchering/ret-con of her origin than the average reader. Cassandra Cain is the child of David Cain and Shiva. She was raised in silence, learned to understand others through body language alone and was made to kill at a very young age. The very first time her father made her assassinate someone, she realized what she was made to do, was horrified and she ran away. She then ran into Oracle during the No Man's Land business and subsequently took over being Batgirl under Bruce Wayne's tutelage. She was given a "gift" to understand others and think the same way you or I do and it threw off her fighting style for a while but eventually, she adjusted and even defeated Shiva, then thought to be the best fighter in the DC universe. She learned to communicate verbally and she learned to read. She developed all of this in her own solo series.
Now, let's talk about Orphan.
Orphan is the child of David Cain and... I'm not sure if Shiva is her mother. David Cain was traumatized and turned into a servant for Mother. David gave Cassandra to Mother to be turned into a weapon. Cassandra doesn't speak much. Cassandra grew up in assassin school. Cassandra was never adopted by Bruce Wayne. Cassandra was never taken under Barbara Gordon's wing and never learned to stick up for herself. Cassandra didn't get an apartment in Bludhaven and take over protecting a city. Cassandra never defied Bruce Wayne's orders and befriended Stephanie Brown anyway. Cassandra never learned to grieve. Orphan's story is all about her relationship to David Cain and what the Mother made her do.
For some reason, Tynion and Snyder thought it would be more interesting to essentially turn my daughter Cass into The Winter Soldier 2.0 complete with a storyline straight out of the recent Captain America: Civil War film. I'm pretty sure this book came out first but my point is - Cassandra Cain is not Bucky. Cassandra Cain was not the result of her father joining a cult. Cain turned her into a weapon because of his own selfishness. There is a much more complicated, nuanced relationship in the pre 52 and Snyder and Tynion ignored that for this story. I don't understand why.
In addition to that, she's barely gotten any development in Detective Comics either. She just fights with tiny, minuscule character moments thrown in. I miss my daughter! I miss her relationship with Bruce and Stephanie. Tynion basically stole her family and now she's about as close to Bruce and Stephanie as Clayface is and that's a travesty.
Anyway, on to the rest of this book:
I read the first volume a little while ago so I have no clue why I had so much trouble following what was going on in this one. The stuff with Tim, Jason and Azrael threw me off so much and eventually my eyes just glazed over. I don't love any of the art in this book. So, I didn't enjoy looking at it and when I was confused about the events, I didn't care enough to examine them closer. It's a shame because I quite enjoy Tim and Jason's chemistry.
The bits with Bruce's past were pretty interesting.
The parts with Dick and Helena were confusing to me because I'm pretty sure they pertain to the last dregs of Grayson and I haven't finished that series yet. Oddly enough, I'm not a huge fan of that version of Helena because, while she is very pretty, she's basically just completely untrustworthy. Her interactions with Dick basically consist of:
Dick: Why did you lie to me?
Helena: I have my reasons
Dick: That's very, very not cool.
Helena: We have a job to do! I'll explain later.
Dick: *grumpy face* Well, okay then.
That's their entire relationship here and in Grayson. *Yawns*.
The parts with Harper were very, very good. While I am mad that they pulled a Winter Soldier and the big crux of this was I quite like Harper as a character. I love her relationship with Cass and would gladly read a solo book about Harper. I would gladly read a book about her and Cass with my daughter's characterization and origin story restored.
Damian showed up which was neat. He gave a rousing, inspirational speech which was unexpected. The whole purpose being to rally the troops because Bruce let them be their own windkeepers. It was fine, if cliche. I expected Dick to be the one to do that.
I really loved Midnighter. Like really, really loved Midnighter. More than anything, I just wanted to read more about that character. I like his banter with Dick.
Ultimately, the reason this gets 3.5 stars is because I really ended up liking the plot of this book. The Mother is an interesting villain and her origin story was really well done. I feel like I understand why she did everything that she did. There's something so terrifying to me about a world full of murderous children. I liked that the Batfam came together without Bruce to save the day. I enjoy the concept of this book. I just hate that Cass' character was regressed in this storyline and that her screwed up, ret-conned origin story is carrying over into Rebirth. I want my daughter back.
If you enjoyed the first volume, you'll probably enjoy this one.
I just get the feeling that either Snyder and Tynion hate Cassandra or they just don't know what to do with her because I've hated her characterization since the first volume of this series.
Cassandra Cain is one of my top 5 favorite comic book characters.
I say that to preface that I'm probably more inclined to be pissed about this book's butchering/ret-con of her origin than the average reader. Cassandra Cain is the child of David Cain and Shiva. She was raised in silence, learned to understand others through body language alone and was made to kill at a very young age. The very first time her father made her assassinate someone, she realized what she was made to do, was horrified and she ran away. She then ran into Oracle during the No Man's Land business and subsequently took over being Batgirl under Bruce Wayne's tutelage. She was given a "gift" to understand others and think the same way you or I do and it threw off her fighting style for a while but eventually, she adjusted and even defeated Shiva, then thought to be the best fighter in the DC universe. She learned to communicate verbally and she learned to read. She developed all of this in her own solo series.
Now, let's talk about Orphan.
Orphan is the child of David Cain and... I'm not sure if Shiva is her mother. David Cain was traumatized and turned into a servant for Mother. David gave Cassandra to Mother to be turned into a weapon. Cassandra doesn't speak much. Cassandra grew up in assassin school. Cassandra was never adopted by Bruce Wayne. Cassandra was never taken under Barbara Gordon's wing and never learned to stick up for herself. Cassandra didn't get an apartment in Bludhaven and take over protecting a city. Cassandra never defied Bruce Wayne's orders and befriended Stephanie Brown anyway. Cassandra never learned to grieve. Orphan's story is all about her relationship to David Cain and what the Mother made her do.
For some reason, Tynion and Snyder thought it would be more interesting to essentially turn my daughter Cass into The Winter Soldier 2.0 complete with a storyline straight out of the recent Captain America: Civil War film. I'm pretty sure this book came out first but my point is - Cassandra Cain is not Bucky. Cassandra Cain was not the result of her father joining a cult. Cain turned her into a weapon because of his own selfishness. There is a much more complicated, nuanced relationship in the pre 52 and Snyder and Tynion ignored that for this story. I don't understand why.
In addition to that, she's barely gotten any development in Detective Comics either. She just fights with tiny, minuscule character moments thrown in. I miss my daughter! I miss her relationship with Bruce and Stephanie. Tynion basically stole her family and now she's about as close to Bruce and Stephanie as Clayface is and that's a travesty.
Anyway, on to the rest of this book:
I read the first volume a little while ago so I have no clue why I had so much trouble following what was going on in this one. The stuff with Tim, Jason and Azrael threw me off so much and eventually my eyes just glazed over. I don't love any of the art in this book. So, I didn't enjoy looking at it and when I was confused about the events, I didn't care enough to examine them closer. It's a shame because I quite enjoy Tim and Jason's chemistry.
The bits with Bruce's past were pretty interesting.
The parts with Dick and Helena were confusing to me because I'm pretty sure they pertain to the last dregs of Grayson and I haven't finished that series yet. Oddly enough, I'm not a huge fan of that version of Helena because, while she is very pretty, she's basically just completely untrustworthy. Her interactions with Dick basically consist of:
Dick: Why did you lie to me?
Helena: I have my reasons
Dick: That's very, very not cool.
Helena: We have a job to do! I'll explain later.
Dick: *grumpy face* Well, okay then.
That's their entire relationship here and in Grayson. *Yawns*.
The parts with Harper were very, very good. While I am mad that they pulled a Winter Soldier and the big crux of this was
Spoiler
Cass being made to kill Harper's motherDamian showed up which was neat. He gave a rousing, inspirational speech which was unexpected. The whole purpose being to rally the troops because Bruce let them be their own windkeepers. It was fine, if cliche. I expected Dick to be the one to do that.
I really loved Midnighter. Like really, really loved Midnighter. More than anything, I just wanted to read more about that character. I like his banter with Dick.
Ultimately, the reason this gets 3.5 stars is because I really ended up liking the plot of this book. The Mother is an interesting villain and her origin story was really well done. I feel like I understand why she did everything that she did. There's something so terrifying to me about a world full of murderous children. I liked that the Batfam came together without Bruce to save the day. I enjoy the concept of this book. I just hate that Cass' character was regressed in this storyline and that her screwed up, ret-conned origin story is carrying over into Rebirth. I want my daughter back.
If you enjoyed the first volume, you'll probably enjoy this one.
susurrus's review against another edition
4.0
Really good ending to this. I didn't honestly like Azrael's involvement, or Midnighter. But that could be because I'm fairly unfamiliar with their storylines up to this point.
This volume seemed to focus much more on Harper and Cass, which is fine but it was really predictable.
This volume seemed to focus much more on Harper and Cass, which is fine but it was really predictable.
ishmael's review against another edition
3.0
While this one was more chaotic and less tightly woven than the last volume, no matter how ridiculous it got things still made sense. It was still a solid read with a lot of great character moments and some good thoughts on the Batman/Robin dynamic and legacy. I could read Harper/Cass/Steph interactions all day and the Midnighter/Grayson banter was still great. I'm sad to see it end and hope there's some kind of follow-up. (Given there's been another reboot I'm not holding out much hope.)
Art is all over the place just like the last volume. Some worked for me, some didn't.
Art is all over the place just like the last volume. Some worked for me, some didn't.
doubleareads's review against another edition
4.0
I loved this comic so much, I can’t even explain. All of my BatChildren here being fantastic and a FAMILY, the resolution at the end, the poster worthy covers, they’re all great. Some of the art was sketchy, like how Damian was drawn the same skin tone as Tim? But overall a good comic.
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