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3.65 AVERAGE
3.65 AVERAGE
A beautifully written, complex space opera about communication and the importance of language, with a poet as a captain! It's also a sci-fi book that deals with sexuality and race in a very modern manner without using a sledge hammer. How can that not be 5 stars?
It is exciting, has an interesting and compelling cast of characters, and makes you think about interpersonal relations and how language influences our understanding of the world around us. How many space opera/sci-fi books out there full throatedly embrace the importance of art, poetry, human interaction, and love in all of its messy and complex realizations; all the while concocting a story that realizes the themes without being preachy?
Beyond that, the scenes are great. There's a banquet scene that made me think of Dune. Many scenes spaceships. There's even an exciting space battle. Throughout it all, Delany stays focused like a laser on his characters and their interactions. That's what drive the plot forward: character, poetry, and language.
Lastly, the writing is great. It's poetic at points. It's clear Delany loves the English language, but manages to not get lost in his writing.
Despite all that praise, there were some parts that I didn't enjoy as much. For example, the gathering of the spaceship crew got distracting. Anyway, I'll definitely be seeking out more Delany.
It is exciting, has an interesting and compelling cast of characters, and makes you think about interpersonal relations and how language influences our understanding of the world around us. How many space opera/sci-fi books out there full throatedly embrace the importance of art, poetry, human interaction, and love in all of its messy and complex realizations; all the while concocting a story that realizes the themes without being preachy?
Beyond that, the scenes are great. There's a banquet scene that made me think of Dune. Many scenes spaceships. There's even an exciting space battle. Throughout it all, Delany stays focused like a laser on his characters and their interactions. That's what drive the plot forward: character, poetry, and language.
Lastly, the writing is great. It's poetic at points. It's clear Delany loves the English language, but manages to not get lost in his writing.
Despite all that praise, there were some parts that I didn't enjoy as much. For example, the gathering of the spaceship crew got distracting. Anyway, I'll definitely be seeking out more Delany.
There were some incredibly interesting concepts around linguistics. I especially enjoyed the chapter in which Rydra stopped the assassin by translating her surroundings into Babel-17. The thoughts in Babel-17 were intermixed with thoughts in English, which lead to a very trippy experience. The language perfectly encapsulates the meaning of things, and is coupled with Rydra's telepathic ability to peer into other's minds.
The other highlight for me was the conversation between Rydra and the Butcher, and how we got to glimpse into the mind of someone with no concept of the words "you" or "I". Delany demonstrated how the way we perceive and experience the world is determined by the tools available to us in language. Such an interesting concept.
However, the characters felt a little bland, and the plot felt more like an excuse to explore his ideas about language and structure. I only really cared about Rydra and the Butcher. Rydra was a little too perfect sometimes, and the Butcher had some depth but I felt that the book ended before it really had the chance to be explored. Overall, I think it ended just a tad too quickly, and I could have used more time to get to know the characters.
The other highlight for me was the conversation between Rydra and the Butcher, and how we got to glimpse into the mind of someone with no concept of the words "you" or "I". Delany demonstrated how the way we perceive and experience the world is determined by the tools available to us in language. Such an interesting concept.
However, the characters felt a little bland, and the plot felt more like an excuse to explore his ideas about language and structure. I only really cared about Rydra and the Butcher. Rydra was a little too perfect sometimes, and the Butcher had some depth but I felt that the book ended before it really had the chance to be explored. Overall, I think it ended just a tad too quickly, and I could have used more time to get to know the characters.
This is a really quick read. Delany hits the nail on the head with simplex, complex, and multiplex intelligences.
ایدهٔ جالبی بود که دانستن یک زبان کامل و دقیق حتی با تعداد کلمات بسیار کم، قدرت فرد را اینقدر زیاد کنه. (هرچند که ایده اولیه از فرضیهٔ ساپیر-وورف گرفته شده). اما با این حال آخرش را خراب کرد و مثل فیلم‌ها شد که همه چیز به طرز مسخره‌ای به خیر و خوشی تمام میشه.
اصل مسئلهٔ کتاب هم بر سر زبان بود، بر سر فرق بین کلمات؛ تفاوت بین من و تو، بین من هستم و تو هستی. و زبان بابل-۱۷ که واژهٔ من را نداشت و باچر که بدون دانستن واژهٔ من، خودش را هم فراموش کرده بود. اوج کتاب، همان قسمت مردگان سفینهٔ طارق بود که ریدرا برای اولین بار مفهوم واژهٔ من را برای باچر توضیح داد. اون قسمتش برای من قشنگ بود.
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I'm the Butcher, without having the Rydra.
اصل مسئلهٔ کتاب هم بر سر زبان بود، بر سر فرق بین کلمات؛ تفاوت بین من و تو، بین من هستم و تو هستی. و زبان بابل-۱۷ که واژهٔ من را نداشت و باچر که بدون دانستن واژهٔ من، خودش را هم فراموش کرده بود. اوج کتاب، همان قسمت مردگان سفینهٔ طارق بود که ریدرا برای اولین بار مفهوم واژهٔ من را برای باچر توضیح داد. اون قسمتش برای من قشنگ بود.
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I'm the Butcher, without having the Rydra.
This book largely reads like it was just published even though it is more than half a century old. Clearly Delany was both far ahead of his time and a huge influence on the writers since.
It is full of modern egalitarian/liberal values on sexuality, body modification, and race (and preaches about them pretty blatantly); experimental sci-fi language; and simply wild ideas. Novels as diverse as [b:Snow Crash|40651883|Snow Crash|Neal Stephenson|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1589842551l/40651883._SX50_.jpg|493634], [b:Infinite Jest|6759|Infinite Jest|David Foster Wallace|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1446876799l/6759._SY75_.jpg|3271542], [b:A Closed and Common Orbit|29475447|A Closed and Common Orbit (Wayfarers, #2)|Becky Chambers|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1457598923l/29475447._SY75_.jpg|48620653] draw their key plot points and some specific scenes directly from this, as well as good chunks of every space opera I've read and many of [a:Iain Banks|7628|Iain Banks|https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1374456581p2/7628.jpg] wonderful worldbuilding ideas.
However, as full of brilliance and ahead of its time as this book is, Delany's writing here just isn't up to the quality of those ideas (Stephensen suffered from this in many novels as well). It needed Ursula K. LeGuin or Octavia Butler and didn't get it.
The structure is messy. There's one deus ex machina after another. The characters are likable--too likable. Anyone who isn't a blatant villain is a charming rogue. There are several scenes where it is hard to tell what is going on because Delany is obsessed with describing some detail instead of the broad action. And for book that is fundamentally about linguistics, the use of both regular and experimental language is not up to snuff. There are sections that aspire to James Joyce or David Foster Wallace inventiveness and instead read like generic pulp. It veers between apparent satire or caricature, poetry, and space opera.
I don't mind the anachronisms of punch cards on space ships or a human beating a chess computer in a handful of moves. Hah, or FORTRAN. These are of their time and part of the character of 60's sci-fi.
After reading this, I respect Delany's mind and bravery about writing about race, sexuality, and equality incredibly, but am not rushing to pick up every one of his books.
It is full of modern egalitarian/liberal values on sexuality, body modification, and race (and preaches about them pretty blatantly); experimental sci-fi language; and simply wild ideas. Novels as diverse as [b:Snow Crash|40651883|Snow Crash|Neal Stephenson|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1589842551l/40651883._SX50_.jpg|493634], [b:Infinite Jest|6759|Infinite Jest|David Foster Wallace|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1446876799l/6759._SY75_.jpg|3271542], [b:A Closed and Common Orbit|29475447|A Closed and Common Orbit (Wayfarers, #2)|Becky Chambers|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1457598923l/29475447._SY75_.jpg|48620653] draw their key plot points and some specific scenes directly from this, as well as good chunks of every space opera I've read and many of [a:Iain Banks|7628|Iain Banks|https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1374456581p2/7628.jpg] wonderful worldbuilding ideas.
However, as full of brilliance and ahead of its time as this book is, Delany's writing here just isn't up to the quality of those ideas (Stephensen suffered from this in many novels as well). It needed Ursula K. LeGuin or Octavia Butler and didn't get it.
The structure is messy. There's one deus ex machina after another. The characters are likable--too likable. Anyone who isn't a blatant villain is a charming rogue. There are several scenes where it is hard to tell what is going on because Delany is obsessed with describing some detail instead of the broad action. And for book that is fundamentally about linguistics, the use of both regular and experimental language is not up to snuff. There are sections that aspire to James Joyce or David Foster Wallace inventiveness and instead read like generic pulp. It veers between apparent satire or caricature, poetry, and space opera.
I don't mind the anachronisms of punch cards on space ships or a human beating a chess computer in a handful of moves. Hah, or FORTRAN. These are of their time and part of the character of 60's sci-fi.
After reading this, I respect Delany's mind and bravery about writing about race, sexuality, and equality incredibly, but am not rushing to pick up every one of his books.
I had read Dhalgren a few times many years ago but hadn't pursued Delany as an author. Now I think I will. Saw this book on a list recently and gave it a try. I was quite impressed by his use of language. Good story. Sometimes I was a bit lost but just went with the flow of the language and enjoyed the ride.
adventurous
challenging
mysterious
fast-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
Character
Strong character development:
Complicated
Loveable characters:
No
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
No
adventurous
fast-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
A mix
Strong character development:
No
Loveable characters:
Complicated
Diverse cast of characters:
Yes
Flaws of characters a main focus:
No
Again Wikipedia helped me a little bit to understand some details I had missed, but overall I can say that I enjoyed the book, especially the digressions on language. Not the usual science fiction novel anyway, though as time goes on and more and more science fiction books are read, I find it increasingly difficult to identify a muster to clarify this genre.
Anche stavolta Wikipedia mi ha un po' aiutato a capire qualche dettaglio che mi era persa, ma nel complesso posso dire di aver apprezzato il libro, soprattutto per le digressioni sul linguaggio. Non il solito romanzo di fantascienza comunque, per quanto, con il passare del tempo e l'aumentare dei libri di fantascienza letti, mi é sempre piú difficile scegliere un muster per identificare questo genere.
Anche stavolta Wikipedia mi ha un po' aiutato a capire qualche dettaglio che mi era persa, ma nel complesso posso dire di aver apprezzato il libro, soprattutto per le digressioni sul linguaggio. Non il solito romanzo di fantascienza comunque, per quanto, con il passare del tempo e l'aumentare dei libri di fantascienza letti, mi é sempre piú difficile scegliere un muster per identificare questo genere.
Another old sci-fi author that I'd never heard of until recently and got to read courtesy of Kindle Unlimited. Guess I shouldn't complain so much about that service. But yeah, okayish space opera. The main character is tasked with uncovering the connection between a string of enemy sabotages and a mysterious language called Babel-17. I called the basic idea about the language pretty early on, but the rest oft he big reveal was sort of out of left field so as a mystery, I cry foul.