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239 reviews for:
Robert E. Lee and Me: A Southerner's Reckoning with the Myth of the Lost Cause
Ty Seidule
4.4 AVERAGE
239 reviews for:
Robert E. Lee and Me: A Southerner's Reckoning with the Myth of the Lost Cause
Ty Seidule
4.4 AVERAGE
Like Ty Seidule, I grew up Southern, revering Robert E. Lee. When I went away to college, I took a flag from my home state of Mississippi with me, and I didn't see anything wrong with it. Also like Ty Seidule, I'm embarrassed to have been so oblivious but proud to have grown to see the harm done by veneration of the Lost Cause.
As Seidule demonstrates, and as will be no surprise to anyone who has visisted any southern state, the supporters of the Confederacy came out ahead in telling their story, effectively rehabbing their image to the extent that even the modern well-intentioned don't see a problem with a bit of praise for men whose driving mission was the brutal enslavement of an entire race.
Discussions of Robert E. Lee in Mississippi are fascinating to me because they cut to core issues so quickly. When I mentioned that I was going to read this book, a heated discussion quickly brought out the highlights of the Lost Cause myth, almost point-by-point matching Seidule's reading of Gone with the Wind in its depiction of the Confederacy:
- Robert E. Lee nobly fought for his home state of Virginia because he put state above country.
- Slaves were better off as slaves
- Slaves weren't ready to be free.
- We can't judge people of that time by the lens of today.
- Robert E. Lee was flawed but Sherman and Grant were just as bad.
If you have a discussion of the Civil War in Mississippi, you might hear similar points, and if you believe any of these points then you especially should read this book (and thank you for reading so far in this review).
These bullet points are commonplace in Mississippi, but they are also evidence of deep-seated and often unconscious acceptance of white supremacy. The only shred of truth is that Robert E. Lee did choose Virginia over the United States but of the eight Virginians serving as colonels in the United States Army, Robert E. Lee was the only traitor, the one Virginian colonel who betrayed the United States and took up arms against it.
So let me propose another list of points, each of which could throw a real wrench into a family dinner:
- Robert E. Lee betrayed his country because he had a huge interest in owning slaves himself.
- Robert E. Lee did not believe black people deserved to be treated as human beings.
- Confederate monuments have been put up by racists side-by-side with integration efforts to demonstrate resistance to civil rights.
- The Confederacy's clear purpose was to be a slave republic, and this was the reason for its rebellion.
These were things I knew, but they are also made clear in this book. I did not know the history of the Confederates after whom current army bases are named, but I'll just say, wow, Benning, Bragg, Beauregard, etc.--they are a lousy lot of men.
I'm even inclined to think that it is likely impossible to know a great deal about Robert E. Lee, to venerate Robert E. Lee, and to believe that black people deserve equal rights as human beings. Where many fail in this list is that they don't know as much about the man as they think they do, and this book is an excellent place to start in remedying that situation.
As Seidule demonstrates, and as will be no surprise to anyone who has visisted any southern state, the supporters of the Confederacy came out ahead in telling their story, effectively rehabbing their image to the extent that even the modern well-intentioned don't see a problem with a bit of praise for men whose driving mission was the brutal enslavement of an entire race.
Discussions of Robert E. Lee in Mississippi are fascinating to me because they cut to core issues so quickly. When I mentioned that I was going to read this book, a heated discussion quickly brought out the highlights of the Lost Cause myth, almost point-by-point matching Seidule's reading of Gone with the Wind in its depiction of the Confederacy:
- Robert E. Lee nobly fought for his home state of Virginia because he put state above country.
- Slaves were better off as slaves
- Slaves weren't ready to be free.
- We can't judge people of that time by the lens of today.
- Robert E. Lee was flawed but Sherman and Grant were just as bad.
If you have a discussion of the Civil War in Mississippi, you might hear similar points, and if you believe any of these points then you especially should read this book (and thank you for reading so far in this review).
These bullet points are commonplace in Mississippi, but they are also evidence of deep-seated and often unconscious acceptance of white supremacy. The only shred of truth is that Robert E. Lee did choose Virginia over the United States but of the eight Virginians serving as colonels in the United States Army, Robert E. Lee was the only traitor, the one Virginian colonel who betrayed the United States and took up arms against it.
So let me propose another list of points, each of which could throw a real wrench into a family dinner:
- Robert E. Lee betrayed his country because he had a huge interest in owning slaves himself.
- Robert E. Lee did not believe black people deserved to be treated as human beings.
- Confederate monuments have been put up by racists side-by-side with integration efforts to demonstrate resistance to civil rights.
- The Confederacy's clear purpose was to be a slave republic, and this was the reason for its rebellion.
These were things I knew, but they are also made clear in this book. I did not know the history of the Confederates after whom current army bases are named, but I'll just say, wow, Benning, Bragg, Beauregard, etc.--they are a lousy lot of men.
I'm even inclined to think that it is likely impossible to know a great deal about Robert E. Lee, to venerate Robert E. Lee, and to believe that black people deserve equal rights as human beings. Where many fail in this list is that they don't know as much about the man as they think they do, and this book is an excellent place to start in remedying that situation.
Required reading for anyone who, like me, was taught that the Civil War was about “states rights”, that Lee was an honorable man, and that the cause of the Confederacy was honorable.
Dr. Seidule’s honesty about his past is refreshing and inspiring. I too grew up revering Lee, and remember visiting Gettysburg as a child and hoping to learn that the South had won. As a teen, I placed a sticker of the first flag of the Confederacy on my truck, believing it an expression of southern pride and heritage. How ashamed I am. How disappointed I am in an upbringing and education that encouraged these beliefs by perpetuating he lies of the Lost Cause.
At the end of _Robert E. Lee and Me_, Dr. Seidule emphasizes that “history is dangerous” but “the truth is ruthless.” May the ruthless truth that has found me continue to prevail in our country.
Dr. Seidule’s honesty about his past is refreshing and inspiring. I too grew up revering Lee, and remember visiting Gettysburg as a child and hoping to learn that the South had won. As a teen, I placed a sticker of the first flag of the Confederacy on my truck, believing it an expression of southern pride and heritage. How ashamed I am. How disappointed I am in an upbringing and education that encouraged these beliefs by perpetuating he lies of the Lost Cause.
At the end of _Robert E. Lee and Me_, Dr. Seidule emphasizes that “history is dangerous” but “the truth is ruthless.” May the ruthless truth that has found me continue to prevail in our country.
4.5 stars
This "reckoning" in the form of a memoir and history is both significant and, I believe, sincere. The POV is not just any random white guy from the U.S. South - he's a military history professor and spent nearly 40 years as an officer in the U.S. Army! I mean, just look at his accolades listed in the first paragraph of his wikipedia entry!We learn at the very end of the book that he in fact had to quit the Army, which he loves with fervent patriotic loyalty, in order to be able to publish this book.
When trying to describe this book to someone in a single sentence of text I called the author "very woke." I don't use that term often because of the mixed connotations it has gained in recent years, but I believe it's accurate in this case. One of the most significant aspects of Seidule's book is the explicit acknowledgment of the many ways he himself has reinforced and benefited from white supremacy. The primary angle of the book, he tells us, was pushed upon him by his wise wife - that he must bare his own involvement and backstory of growing up worshipping Robert E. Lee while also having zero Black friends.
Towards the end of the book, I kept wanting to tell Seidule to wrap it up already, but he draws it out and makes more than one problematic statement. The audiobook includes a 1-on-1 Q&A interview conducted over what must have been Zoom or Skype by a fellow white military history buff and writer. There were a few interesting tidbits but I'd recommend skipping the whole thing unless you want to hear two geezers sucking each other's dicks. It's really just a lot of back-patting and mutual praise.
Rather than review the whole book, I'm now going to insert my notes:
In the middle of the Civil War (1861-1865), the confederates tried out a few flag designs, notably none of which were exactly like the one held popularly by white supremacists. In discussion of one of the designs (the second flag officially) that’s mostly white, "The White Man's Flag." In explaining the white background, Thompson wrote, "As a people we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause." - quoted in the book but copied from Wikipedia
ALSO, look into this interesting coincidence: verbatim from the Flag Act of 1965, in the South at the end of the war: “...That the flag of the Confederate States shall be as follows: The width two-thirds of its length, with the union (now used as the battle flag) to be in width three-fifths of the width of the flag…” If the “union” (which is the totality of the present-day, well-known Confederate Flag) goes 3/5ths precisely into the whole of the fabric, and the rest is white (and/or with a red bar at the end, which maybe ruins my working theory/hypothesis), is that because slaves had 3/5ths as much representation in the gov’t as white men?
Encourages saying “enslaved labor farms” instead of “plantations” and “United States vs. the traitors of the South” rather than “the Union vs. the Confederacy.” - Using “Confederate” continues to legitimize the treasonous secession.
“Georgia was a racial police state, not a democracy.”
“When asked after he left the White House, on what inspired him to create the Civil Rights Commission, Truman remembered exactly: It was the Monroe lynching combined with the beating and blinding of Sgt. Isaac Woodard that horrified the President.” - implication that those in power are only seen to intervene against violent anti-Blackness when they’re sufficiently disgusted and shocked by the most gruesome and visible cases.
Fort Bragg is one of ten US military posts named in honor of a Confederate, and he was not even a good general, hated by almost everyone in the Army.
“Racism requires falsehood, hypocrisy, and spite.”
Houses near West Point had notices to the owners saying “You shall not sell this property to a negro.”!!! This housing covenant was found still in the 2000s!!!
“Robert E. Lee committed treason to preserve slavery.”
Things I never knew about Lee: his father was a legendary Revolutionary War general! He was put in charge of shutting down the abolitionist John Brown Rebellion (and succeeded but didn’t recognize that afterwards Brown would be seen as a martyr).
~80% of colonels from West Point and in that region of Virginia fought for the U.S. - Lee was an outlier and def did not have to commit treason and lead the fight that would end up killing more American soldiers than any other time before or since. He controlled more enslaved workers personally than most of the powerful Army men in the South.
This "reckoning" in the form of a memoir and history is both significant and, I believe, sincere. The POV is not just any random white guy from the U.S. South - he's a military history professor and spent nearly 40 years as an officer in the U.S. Army! I mean, just look at his accolades listed in the first paragraph of his wikipedia entry!We learn at the very end of the book that he in fact had to quit the Army, which he loves with fervent patriotic loyalty, in order to be able to publish this book.
When trying to describe this book to someone in a single sentence of text I called the author "very woke." I don't use that term often because of the mixed connotations it has gained in recent years, but I believe it's accurate in this case. One of the most significant aspects of Seidule's book is the explicit acknowledgment of the many ways he himself has reinforced and benefited from white supremacy. The primary angle of the book, he tells us, was pushed upon him by his wise wife - that he must bare his own involvement and backstory of growing up worshipping Robert E. Lee while also having zero Black friends.
Towards the end of the book, I kept wanting to tell Seidule to wrap it up already, but he draws it out and makes more than one problematic statement. The audiobook includes a 1-on-1 Q&A interview conducted over what must have been Zoom or Skype by a fellow white military history buff and writer. There were a few interesting tidbits but I'd recommend skipping the whole thing unless you want to hear two geezers sucking each other's dicks. It's really just a lot of back-patting and mutual praise.
Rather than review the whole book, I'm now going to insert my notes:
In the middle of the Civil War (1861-1865), the confederates tried out a few flag designs, notably none of which were exactly like the one held popularly by white supremacists. In discussion of one of the designs (the second flag officially) that’s mostly white, "The White Man's Flag." In explaining the white background, Thompson wrote, "As a people we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause." - quoted in the book but copied from Wikipedia
ALSO, look into this interesting coincidence: verbatim from the Flag Act of 1965, in the South at the end of the war: “...That the flag of the Confederate States shall be as follows: The width two-thirds of its length, with the union (now used as the battle flag) to be in width three-fifths of the width of the flag…” If the “union” (which is the totality of the present-day, well-known Confederate Flag) goes 3/5ths precisely into the whole of the fabric, and the rest is white (and/or with a red bar at the end, which maybe ruins my working theory/hypothesis), is that because slaves had 3/5ths as much representation in the gov’t as white men?
Encourages saying “enslaved labor farms” instead of “plantations” and “United States vs. the traitors of the South” rather than “the Union vs. the Confederacy.” - Using “Confederate” continues to legitimize the treasonous secession.
“Georgia was a racial police state, not a democracy.”
“When asked after he left the White House, on what inspired him to create the Civil Rights Commission, Truman remembered exactly: It was the Monroe lynching combined with the beating and blinding of Sgt. Isaac Woodard that horrified the President.” - implication that those in power are only seen to intervene against violent anti-Blackness when they’re sufficiently disgusted and shocked by the most gruesome and visible cases.
Fort Bragg is one of ten US military posts named in honor of a Confederate, and he was not even a good general, hated by almost everyone in the Army.
“Racism requires falsehood, hypocrisy, and spite.”
Houses near West Point had notices to the owners saying “You shall not sell this property to a negro.”!!! This housing covenant was found still in the 2000s!!!
“Robert E. Lee committed treason to preserve slavery.”
Things I never knew about Lee: his father was a legendary Revolutionary War general! He was put in charge of shutting down the abolitionist John Brown Rebellion (and succeeded but didn’t recognize that afterwards Brown would be seen as a martyr).
~80% of colonels from West Point and in that region of Virginia fought for the U.S. - Lee was an outlier and def did not have to commit treason and lead the fight that would end up killing more American soldiers than any other time before or since. He controlled more enslaved workers personally than most of the powerful Army men in the South.
emotional
hopeful
informative
inspiring
reflective
medium-paced
challenging
informative
inspiring
reflective
slow-paced
This book was fantastic! Having grown up in the South and always hearing the stories about Robert E. Lee, this book was super relatable. Seidule does an amazing job of telling his own story. I highly recommend this book to anyone wanting to learn more about the Lost Cause and why so many Southerners have hung on to it. It is definitely and eye opening journey that dives into so many things including the names of military bases and building at the USMA.
I’m a Midwesterner who now calls Virginia home and this book explained so much to me about the myth of the lost cause that I could not previously wrap my head around. The author gives fair warning about how history can be dangerous but also ends with optimism about the direction schools, especially Virginia schools!, are taking to revise curriculum to present the truth of America’s racism.
I identify as a southerner; a student of history; a museum professional; even an alum of a fraternity that started at W&L and considers Lee to be a “spiritual founder.” Seidule’s own personal experiences deeply resonated with me and demonstrate that the myth of the Lost Cause carried well beyond the immediate aftermath of the Civil War. “Robert E. Lee & Me” is an unfortunate reminder that public spaces often serve as grounds to honor and commemorate our country’s racist past, and that the ghosts of the Confederacy continue to haunt much of our nation today.
The author grew up in the South, was spoon fed the Lost Cause propaganda and came to admire everything Robert E. Lee. I was similarly infected, reading the same textbooks and admiring the same monuments, but half of my family was New England and Pennsylvania stock and they were not admirers of Lee. The author's passion sometimes gets in the way of his writing (how many times did I need to hear about Lee's recumbent statue as the "altar" of the Lee Chapel?) but I learned a lot about the history of Confederate memorialization in the North, particularly in the U.S.Army. Well worth the read.
Brilliant and gut-wrenching, I think everyone who grew up in a Southern school system should read Professor Seidule's piercing book.