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This is where the series went wrong. Martin has stated that he had originally planned for books 4 and 5 to be a single book, but they turned out to be longer than expected and needed to be split in two. However, most of this is just bloat.

Iron Islands, Dorne, and Brienne should have been reduced to two chapters each. Jamie, Sam, and Sansa should have each lost at least two chapters. Even Cersei could have lost one. If I remember correctly, then the next book is full of similar problems.

The bloat falls into two categories: either repeating (plot/character/world) information we should’ve had already, or building out new information that moves away from the main plot.

Brienne’s chapters are a perfect example of the former. We revisit the Riverlands again, which we had just spent two books following Arya wander through aimlessly. These chapters do not add to the plot (most is covered in Jamie), or the worldbuilding (Arya already showed us their destruction in the war), or themes (Arya and Jamie again). The only thing they do is elaborate on Brienne’s character, which while sympathetic does not change our view of any other character or introduce any other information. The same value could have happened in two short chapters, one of her starting out on the journey and one of her getting captured by the Brotherhood. Everything else could have been summarized and really slowed the whole book down.

The other bloat is from new intricate politics of Dorne and the Iron Islands being introduced. Almost all of this could have been handled off-screen, and Martin did exactly that in his Oldtown setting. One chapter of Prince of Dorne arguing with his daughter, then one of her captive after the fact of her plot. The Iron Islands could’ve done something similar, even putting the kingsmoot in the previous book. Instead both introduce a dozen or more named characters and at least three sub-factions. Instead they should’ve been like Marwin: two chapters, two factions, two to three characters that matter.

Martin has three central problems for the series going forward: 1. Keep conflict going in Westeros 2. Bring Dany over the sea 3. Set up the Others’ invasion.

This book only really touches #1 in Cersei’s chapters, with the other two more or less ignored. #1 needs Tyrell-Lannister conflict (done), Northern conflict (next book), plus Iron Islands, the Vale, and Dorne as fresh combatants (over-complicated and long for little payoff). Nothing is done about Dany - the Dorne plot fails in the next book, the Iron Island plot STILL hasn’t reached her, and she hasn’t extracted herself from the Slave Cities. Almost nothing is done about the Others (beyond a couple hints) and the next book won’t set it up concretely either.

Ideally Martin will also have 4. a Stark reunion, but even at the end of the next book all of them are still in their separate training montages with no plan to return home. I personally think Martin will never finish the seventh and last book, but the long awaited book six will have to use all of its 1500 pages to bring problems 1-4 to a head for that final volume, even if it adds no new characters or plot lines.

jalaldous's review against another edition

4.5

adventurous dark tense slow-paced

Plot or Character Driven: A mix

Strong character development: Complicated

Loveable characters: Yes

Diverse cast of characters: Complicated

Flaws of characters a main focus: Yes

It has been months since I finished this book. Some pieces of the review I wrote as I went, whilst some parts I've only just written, so this will be a bit all over the place.

For the most part I really enjoyed this book. I didn't think it was quite as good as the previous three, but still very, very good. I think this is partly because we're missing some key POV characters- I missed Tyrion, Jon, Danny and their gangs. I suppose if they're in Dance of Dragons I can't complain too much. The other issue I had I'll go into more at the end.

Like with SoS there's too much to fit in one big block so I'm going through POV characters one by one (what I can remember anyway).

The Lannister Twins:

Cersei
Cersei is a lot less scary when you're in her head, witnessing her confusion and uncertainty. The show doesn't do justice as to quite how haunted she is by Tyrion. Even when she thinks

he's in prison

, her hatred and fear of him are extreme and he's never far from her thoughts. I could feel quite viscerally how much his existence torments her.

There is so much you could analyse about Cersei's mental state: her extreme feelings towards her brothers- toxic love for one (at least initially) and corrosive hatred of the other. The way she says Tommen has her eyes at the start of a sentence, then ends it saying they are Jaime's eyes- like she views them as one person. Her anger at Jaime growing a beard, something she could never do. Her telling Tommen off for crying infront of the Lords as it makes him appear childish and weak, then hugging and kissing him as if that doesn't also make him appear childish. Also her anger towards Jaime for 'allowing' his arm to be cut off, perhaps because a physical disability makes him closer to Tyrion in her mind. Safe to say woman has issues.

In this book she is even more vile than the show and so foolish! Her people skills are appalling and her strategic planning is abysmal. We see her form what she believes to be infallible plans, then watch them go catastrophically wrong. She thinks of herself as Tywin's heir but she has none of his cunning. In the show, Tywin says "I don't distrust you because you're a woman; I distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are". I think this is the perfect summary of book Cersei. In the show, it felt like events out of her control were happening to her; in the book it's clear all the bad things that happen to her are a direct consequence of her poor decisions. She is absolutely the master of her own downfall through her arrogance and ignorance. She has this unshakeable belief that she is cleverer than everyone else, and all the while

she is getting played by the Sparrows.

Also Tyrion is not the only Lannister with a drinking problem.

There is some gorgeous symbolism in these chapters. The way GRRM describes the red then golden light- Lannister colours- the morning Cersei finds out

Tywin is dead, is beautiful

.
Also the way

the Silent Sisters catch Cersei on the Mother's altar

- perfect irony given defending her children is used to justify all her actions, but it won't save her now. I'm sure there lots more that I've missed. Probably a reddit thread somewhere.

Bronn naming Lollys' baby "Tyrion" following Cersei's fit when they suggest "Tywin" was hysterical. Love Bronn.

Interesting chapters to read, very different to the show.

Jaime
I am still resolved never to like Jaime, but I have to admit his chapters were among my favourite to read in this book. He is so sassy, I love how done he is with everyone's shit.

My big issue with him in this book is, having found out about

Cersei's infidelity

, he goes on and on about how she tricked him. He complains, "Cersei is the stranger, I never truly knew her." Bro, what? He forgave all her vile acts when he thought

she was faithful

and only after finding out

she cheated

, is he suddenly going oh no, she's a terrible person. Yes, she is a terrible person but that's nothing new. The most sympathetic take is that he was a dumb, love sick puppy but I'm not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He's not that stupid. He's bitter about being cuckolded and only now does he choose to remember morals are a thing.

People (actually, I think it's fair to say men) absolutely adore this character and seem to think he is the gold standard for character development. I think book Jaime is miles better than show Jaime, and he has potential, but so far I am unimpressed. It all just seems a little too close to blaming the evil woman for corrupting the man. Cersei is pretty evil but Jaime made his own choices and to absolve him of responsibility is absurd.

Then his interaction with Brynden Tully, where he gets all tetchy at being called 'Kingslayer' is ridiculous. Jaime ignores the fact that to the best of Bryden's knowledge, House Lannister

has killed Brynden's whole family

, with Jaime personally breaking his oath to Catelyn. Get some fucking perspective Jaime. Given this is what Bryden believes, he was pretty civil.

On that note, so pleased Brynden Tully is still alive in the books.

I very much enjoyed all the Frey bullying. Gemma Lannister is a great character, I want more of her.

The Stark sisters:

Arya
Love how Arya finds a way to fit in whether she goes. I've lost count of the number of different roles she's had now. It makes perfect sense for her to become a faceless man because, in essence, that's what she's been doing since Ned was killed: taking on all these different personas. Very cool. Also, finding out she

murdered the Night's Watch guy

was quite the moment. Gives quite a different read on the character than in the show, where she's

made blind cos she kills Meryn Trant

. In a twisted way she's echoing Ned,

executing a deserter

.

Sansa
I hate Petyr Baelish with a passion. He's disgusting. I do like seeing Sansa's growth from the earlier books. If we ever get WoW, her arc is probably the one I'm most intrigued about.

Both
The thing I loved about his writing for both Sansa and Arya is how he changes their chapter names from "Sansa" to "Alayne" and "Arya" to "Cat of the Canals". He refers to them by their alias names throughout, except for when their thoughts slip, and they think of something that only Sansa or Arya would know. Like when Sansa thinks of a wolf's call and Arya thinks of the Night's Watch. So subtle I almost missed it completely.

The Greyjoys:

Asha
I love Asha, she is an icon, a queen, I would follow her tbh. Probably my favourite pov, shame we don't have more of her. It was so refreshing, having her blunt rejection of the pretty boy. He poured his heart out to her and she was just like I don't have time for this 😂. Savage and valid.

I also really like her uncle, Rodrick Harlaw (The Reader). Really not the sort of character I expected from the Iron Islands. I loved it when he offers Asha Ten Towers. He has some great lines when trying to persuade her against taking the Salt Throne, "we had one king, then five. Now all I see are crows, squabbling over the corpse of Westeros." And when she refuses him, "then you are just another crow, screaming for carrion", hits hard.
Also loved "history is a wheel, for the nature of man is fundamentally unchanging. What has happened before will perforce happen again." Would love to listen in on a conversation between him and Master Aemon. Need more wise people in this world.

These two were gems much needed to balance out my irritation at the Greyjoy men. I could tolerate Aeron, Euron and Victarion as it meant more time with these two.

Euron
I know people were having a tantrum about Euron in the show (and he certainly could be impactful), but I'm not particularly bothered by him. He's another sadist who just happened to find a game changing weapon. He's not one of the characters I find interesting. The horn is more intriguing than him.

Aeron
Pretty boring tbh, I'm no fan of zealots irl and they're not much better in fiction. He's just there to give a view on his more interesting family.

The Martells:

Arianne

Miscommunication trope.

She is an alright character, I see why she was cut out of the show but I did enjoy reading from her pov. She's pretty naive but I can't help feeling sorry for her. It's sad that she spends her life believing

her father wants her replaced as heir,

when nothing could be further from the truth. Enjoyed hearing more about the Sand Snakes from her, they're so cool, much more interesting in the book than the show!

Arys Oakheart
Love sick puppy and an idiot. Best summed up by the comment on

his death charge

: "Arianne Martell had never seen anything half so gallant or half so stupid." Not much else to say.

Areo Hotah
Can't remember enough about him to say much. Pretty bland character but we get an interesting depiction of Dorne through his eyes. Like Aeron, there to witness more interesting characters.

Killing Arys

is his only notable action.

Others:

Brienne of Tarth
Brienne is great and men are dicks. Randyll Tarly is particularly vile.

That cliffhanger with Lady Stoneheart

aka Catelyn Stark

is so rude.

Brienne reminds me of Sam Gamgee in a way, very steadfast and will not be dissuaded from her mission.

Samwell Tarly
This was all so different from the show it was really interesting.

Would love to know where GRRM is going with the

Mance baby

storyline. Poor Gillie.

Sam clobbering that Night's Watch musician was not on my bingo card but was very satisfying.

I was sad about

Master Aemon

, he was sweet.

((Is putting spoiler warnings for deaths useless in a series famous for killing off everyone?))

Final thoughts:

My only issue with this book was it felt like there was a real increase in references to sexual violence which was uncomfortable to read, especially in Brienne's chapters. Now I know that conversations like this would absolutely have taken place in a medieval setting and GRRM is (correctly) depicting how depraved men can be. It's not even like such comments are limited to the past, particularly in the manosphere, but that doesn't mean I want to read it.

For me, the although it is upsetting how casually sexual violence is talked about, I know it's supposed to tell us how vile and misogynistic these people and this society is. The whole point of GRRM's books is showing the brutal truth of humanity and I think to pretend sexual violence isn't a thing would be jarring in his world. However, I think there is a balance to be struck and this book feels more precarious in that balance than the first three. I think if this was written post "me too" GRRM would've toned it down.

As is probably evident, my thoughts on this are a bit up in the air. I will say it frustrates me when people dismiss all GRRM's writing as gratuitous sexual violence. This it isn't true, it misses the message and it minimises the many important themes of the books. I don't think the show did this reputation any favours, with scenes way worse than anything in these first 4 books. I will defend the first three books but I did feel like there was a ramping up of such language in this book. It was uncomfortable and though not bad enough to stop me from reading, I understand why people would avoid it.

Seven Hells, here I was saying this would be a short review and that I'd forgotten everything. Clearly not.