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fogisbeautiful's review against another edition
3.0
I mean... It wasn't awful. But it did get a little tedious. There were a few cool twists at the end though :)
rpych2's review
3.0
It was cool to see the a different Avengers team alongside a central Kang and Immortus storyline, but so many timelines converged that it was a bit confusing at the beginning. You get used to each of the heroes and where they are in their own time stream, because it helps define their characteristics.
I also really liked the art style, it was beautiful to take in. But the story itself was unfortunately just fine, so I’ll say 3.5 stars rounded down.
I also really liked the art style, it was beautiful to take in. But the story itself was unfortunately just fine, so I’ll say 3.5 stars rounded down.
dantastic's review
4.0
Immortus wants Rick Jones dead. The Kree Supreme Intelligence empowers Rick to summon an all-star team of Avengers from throughout time to stop them. But will even Hawkeye, Giant-Man, Wasp, Yellowjacket, Captain America, Captain Marvel, and Songbird be enough to stop Immortus, even with Kang on their side?
There are rumors that Avengers Forever will be the basis for the fourth Avengers movie so I snapped this up on the cheap when I stumbled upon it at MightyCon a few weeks ago. It was easily worth my ten bucks.
Avengers Forever feels a lot like one of the episodes of Doctor Who when multiple Doctors team up or a Michael Moorcock book when aspects of the Eternal Champion meet. In short, serious shit is brewing and it takes a specific crew to settle things. Yellowjacket is snatched before he marries the Wasp. Hawkeye is plucked from just after the Kree-Skrull War. Captain Marvel and Songbird are from points in the future. Captain America is from just after witnessing the Secret Empire head kill himself in the White House. Giant-Man and the Wasp are from a point after their divorce when Wasp is leading the team.
I thought it was weird having two versions of Hank Pym on the team but I was confident Kurt Busiek would show me the way. The scribe of Astro City has recently risen quite a bit in my esteem. Anyway, a lot of timey-wimey stuff goes down. The Avengers are scattered across three time periods and encounter Skrulls, Space Phantoms, and betrayal by one of their own before saving the day.
It turns out Immortus has been manipulating the Avengers quite a bit since their inception, which serves to iron out some weird loopholes and paradoxes in Avengers history, like Iron Man turning heel in the 1990s and being replaced by a teenage version of himself, and whether or not Vision was created from the original Human Torch's body. It also sorts out some of the continuity of Rama Tut, Kang, and Immortus' appearances in 50 years of Marvel history at that point.
The ending was pretty satisfying, a battle royal featuring thousands of Avengers. It also served to launch Peter David's Captain Marvel series and bring the 1950s Avengers into canon as the Agents of Atlas. My only real gripe is that it wound up being more of a Kang vs. Immortus story rather than an Avengers story. Still, it was a lot of fun and some of the better straight-up super hero comics of the time period. Four out of five stars.
There are rumors that Avengers Forever will be the basis for the fourth Avengers movie so I snapped this up on the cheap when I stumbled upon it at MightyCon a few weeks ago. It was easily worth my ten bucks.
Avengers Forever feels a lot like one of the episodes of Doctor Who when multiple Doctors team up or a Michael Moorcock book when aspects of the Eternal Champion meet. In short, serious shit is brewing and it takes a specific crew to settle things. Yellowjacket is snatched before he marries the Wasp. Hawkeye is plucked from just after the Kree-Skrull War. Captain Marvel and Songbird are from points in the future. Captain America is from just after witnessing the Secret Empire head kill himself in the White House. Giant-Man and the Wasp are from a point after their divorce when Wasp is leading the team.
I thought it was weird having two versions of Hank Pym on the team but I was confident Kurt Busiek would show me the way. The scribe of Astro City has recently risen quite a bit in my esteem. Anyway, a lot of timey-wimey stuff goes down. The Avengers are scattered across three time periods and encounter Skrulls, Space Phantoms, and betrayal by one of their own before saving the day.
It turns out Immortus has been manipulating the Avengers quite a bit since their inception, which serves to iron out some weird loopholes and paradoxes in Avengers history, like Iron Man turning heel in the 1990s and being replaced by a teenage version of himself, and whether or not Vision was created from the original Human Torch's body. It also sorts out some of the continuity of Rama Tut, Kang, and Immortus' appearances in 50 years of Marvel history at that point.
The ending was pretty satisfying, a battle royal featuring thousands of Avengers. It also served to launch Peter David's Captain Marvel series and bring the 1950s Avengers into canon as the Agents of Atlas. My only real gripe is that it wound up being more of a Kang vs. Immortus story rather than an Avengers story. Still, it was a lot of fun and some of the better straight-up super hero comics of the time period. Four out of five stars.
clarks_dad's review against another edition
1.0
Kurt. Kurt, my man. You let me down. I am so disappoint.
I am not a fan of time travel stories. I mean hypothetically, they could be done right, but I've yet to find a single case where there aren't at least tiny flaws in logic present. Most of the time there are huge gaping holes in the logic. Sadly, Avengers Forever falls into that latter category.
The premise is interesting - Avengers from different time periods are assembled to rectify dangers further down the time stream. As humanity spreads among the stars and activate the "Destiny Force," they turn into a conquering menace to the rest of the multiverse and a group of self-appointed time guardians employ Immortus to stop humanity in its tracks. While the guardians want humanity expunged from all time streams where they pose a threat, Immortus, who at one point was human, attempts less radical measures and opts for more non-invasive surgical strikes to the time period, spawning a cross-millenial game of catch and mouse that ultimately centers upon the key human who first manifests the Destiny Force: Rick Jones, longtime Avenger buddy pal and adventure bro.
Probably I'm not immersed enough in the lore of the Marvel Universe to really see how cool this story is, but I just can't get over a ton of objective flaws. The whole inside-outside the time stream business and the whole Immortus/Kang paradox was really just too much for me to take. Not only is it confusing as hell, but it just doesn't make any sense at all. For example: at one point the Avengers feel it necessary to escape the time stream (I don't know what that means, but ok), so that they can be safe from Immortus and his masters who have complete control over time. Alright, seems logical. They escape and can finally take a breather unpursued by Immortus who can't see outside the time stream. BUT. If Immortus is smart, (which he'd kind of have to be, right?), why wouldn't you just go back in time to the moment before the Avengers left the time stream and then just prevent them from doing it and yourself from losing them? OR. If Rick Jones and humanity are a colossal threat to the multiverse, why would you attempt to take them out the day that Rick manifests the dangerous Destiny Force? Why not pick a point in time (because you can, right? Isn't that the point of being master of time?) where Rick is defenseless, say as an infant, and take him out then? Why not step on the amoeba that would turn into humanity several millennia down the evolutionary path? Why wait and try to take them out when the most powerful humans can act as guardians for their weaker brethren? I could seriously go on forever on ways you could reduce this story to like five pages, but let's move on to more pressing concerns.
The writing here is just atrocious. I know Busiek is better than this. This is the man who gave us [b:Astro City, Vol. 1: Life in the Big City|72111|Astro City, Vol. 1 Life in the Big City|Kurt Busiek|https://d.gr-assets.com/books/1348360073s/72111.jpg|97133] and [b:Superman: Secret Identity|26088|Superman Secret Identity|Kurt Busiek|https://d.gr-assets.com/books/1388516637s/26088.jpg|1100913], [b:Marvels|16982|Marvels|Kurt Busiek|https://d.gr-assets.com/books/1388285617s/16982.jpg|265304] and [b:Trinity, Vol. 1|6075820|Trinity, Vol. 1|Kurt Busiek|https://d.gr-assets.com/books/1347783437s/6075820.jpg|6252348]. This pile of garbage is unacceptable. Just two of the innumerable examples of shitty dialogue that mars an otherwise beautiful and expansive picture book:
"Uh-oh! My senses are back on-line [GEE WHAT A COINCIDENCE CAPTAIN MARVEL], Wasp -- and I see the problem! They're not seeing us as we truly are! To their eyes, we're THE GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY!" Completely out of left field and 100% to serve whatever zany plot development was supposed to happen next. Powers turn on and off with perfect timing and zero explanation.
"Whatever you say, Kang Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang!" Do I need to editorialize this one? I thought not.
And that's the other thing about the dialogue in this series - there's way too much of it. There're great pages of brilliant and colorfully emotive artwork ruined by walls of text. Completely and unnecessarily overwritten.
Way too much telling instead of showing. In a visual medium, that's inexcusable.
I am not a fan of time travel stories. I mean hypothetically, they could be done right, but I've yet to find a single case where there aren't at least tiny flaws in logic present. Most of the time there are huge gaping holes in the logic. Sadly, Avengers Forever falls into that latter category.
The premise is interesting - Avengers from different time periods are assembled to rectify dangers further down the time stream. As humanity spreads among the stars and activate the "Destiny Force," they turn into a conquering menace to the rest of the multiverse and a group of self-appointed time guardians employ Immortus to stop humanity in its tracks. While the guardians want humanity expunged from all time streams where they pose a threat, Immortus, who at one point was human, attempts less radical measures and opts for more non-invasive surgical strikes to the time period, spawning a cross-millenial game of catch and mouse that ultimately centers upon the key human who first manifests the Destiny Force: Rick Jones, longtime Avenger buddy pal and adventure bro.
Probably I'm not immersed enough in the lore of the Marvel Universe to really see how cool this story is, but I just can't get over a ton of objective flaws. The whole inside-outside the time stream business and the whole Immortus/Kang paradox was really just too much for me to take. Not only is it confusing as hell, but it just doesn't make any sense at all. For example: at one point the Avengers feel it necessary to escape the time stream (I don't know what that means, but ok), so that they can be safe from Immortus and his masters who have complete control over time. Alright, seems logical. They escape and can finally take a breather unpursued by Immortus who can't see outside the time stream. BUT. If Immortus is smart, (which he'd kind of have to be, right?), why wouldn't you just go back in time to the moment before the Avengers left the time stream and then just prevent them from doing it and yourself from losing them? OR. If Rick Jones and humanity are a colossal threat to the multiverse, why would you attempt to take them out the day that Rick manifests the dangerous Destiny Force? Why not pick a point in time (because you can, right? Isn't that the point of being master of time?) where Rick is defenseless, say as an infant, and take him out then? Why not step on the amoeba that would turn into humanity several millennia down the evolutionary path? Why wait and try to take them out when the most powerful humans can act as guardians for their weaker brethren? I could seriously go on forever on ways you could reduce this story to like five pages, but let's move on to more pressing concerns.
The writing here is just atrocious. I know Busiek is better than this. This is the man who gave us [b:Astro City, Vol. 1: Life in the Big City|72111|Astro City, Vol. 1 Life in the Big City|Kurt Busiek|https://d.gr-assets.com/books/1348360073s/72111.jpg|97133] and [b:Superman: Secret Identity|26088|Superman Secret Identity|Kurt Busiek|https://d.gr-assets.com/books/1388516637s/26088.jpg|1100913], [b:Marvels|16982|Marvels|Kurt Busiek|https://d.gr-assets.com/books/1388285617s/16982.jpg|265304] and [b:Trinity, Vol. 1|6075820|Trinity, Vol. 1|Kurt Busiek|https://d.gr-assets.com/books/1347783437s/6075820.jpg|6252348]. This pile of garbage is unacceptable. Just two of the innumerable examples of shitty dialogue that mars an otherwise beautiful and expansive picture book:
"Uh-oh! My senses are back on-line [GEE WHAT A COINCIDENCE CAPTAIN MARVEL], Wasp -- and I see the problem! They're not seeing us as we truly are! To their eyes, we're THE GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY!" Completely out of left field and 100% to serve whatever zany plot development was supposed to happen next. Powers turn on and off with perfect timing and zero explanation.
"Whatever you say, Kang Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang!" Do I need to editorialize this one? I thought not.
And that's the other thing about the dialogue in this series - there's way too much of it. There're great pages of brilliant and colorfully emotive artwork ruined by walls of text. Completely and unnecessarily overwritten.
Way too much telling instead of showing. In a visual medium, that's inexcusable.
imjustadow's review against another edition
2.0
what a weird fucking book. honestly too convoluted for me, even knowing a lot more about the avengers going into it. i tried to read this ages ago and was totally lost, this time i was just confused and underwhelmed, although it seems like this is the storyline they're building towards in the mcu. guess we'll see what happens
altlovesbooks's review
4.0
What in the world was this story? I mean that in all the right ways.
Anyway, tired of being hounded by the Time-Keepers for not doing his job right, Immortus finally decides to kill Rick Jones, evidently a catalyst for human's flight into space, but doesn't even do that right and Rick Jones is whisked away to safety by a variety of Avengers, past, present, and future, drawn together by Libra to balance the scales of something-or-other. The group splits up into smaller teams for reasons, they end up in different time periods, we get some delightful period-specific side stories, character drama from different periods, and some wibbly wobbly timeywimey stuff as they try to fix time problems.
So I'm not normally a huge fan of time travel in books or graphic novels, just because of how problematic it can be and how confusing things can get. This was really no exception, because things start a bit slow and confusingly while the Avengers try and figure out exactly wtf is going on. It really isn't until we start getting infodumps (and boy are they infodumps) about halfway through that I finally started to really catch onto what was going on. I also wouldn't recommend this to someone new to Marvel comics, because I spent an inordinate amount of time looking up unfamiliar characters.
But I mean, this was still great fun. The reveal of the Supreme-Cycle made me let out an audible "what the fuck lol", because I mean who wouldn't when you see. There was also a lot of character interplay across the generations that I really liked.
Spoiler
Immortus is sad. Immortus is tired. Immortus is the middle manager of time, directed to muck about to prevent humanity from progressing into space by the Time-Keepers, an alien race with a rather vested interest in seeing humans stuck planetside. Immortus also thinks he's hot (time) shit, when in actuality he does more groveling to his Time-Keeper overlords than anything else. He also kinda looks like Will Riker in a helmet drawn by this artist.Anyway, tired of being hounded by the Time-Keepers for not doing his job right, Immortus finally decides to kill Rick Jones, evidently a catalyst for human's flight into space, but doesn't even do that right and Rick Jones is whisked away to safety by a variety of Avengers, past, present, and future, drawn together by Libra to balance the scales of something-or-other. The group splits up into smaller teams for reasons, they end up in different time periods, we get some delightful period-specific side stories, character drama from different periods, and some wibbly wobbly timeywimey stuff as they try to fix time problems.
So I'm not normally a huge fan of time travel in books or graphic novels, just because of how problematic it can be and how confusing things can get. This was really no exception, because things start a bit slow and confusingly while the Avengers try and figure out exactly wtf is going on. It really isn't until we start getting infodumps (and boy are they infodumps) about halfway through that I finally started to really catch onto what was going on. I also wouldn't recommend this to someone new to Marvel comics, because I spent an inordinate amount of time looking up unfamiliar characters.
But I mean, this was still great fun. The reveal of the Supreme-Cycle made me let out an audible "what the fuck lol", because I mean who wouldn't when you see
Spoiler
The Supreme Intelligence plugged into the back of an amped up dune buggy Mad Max styledevinr's review against another edition
3.0
Avengers Forever is a superhero adventure story that spans the history of recorded time and a couple of theoretical dimensions, as well as nearly 40 years of Marvel Comics continuity. And with all that baggage, while it's really trying to soar, sometimes it gets held back. I really liked the idea of gathering 7 Avengers from throughout the team's history and trying to get them to work together. Having future members keeping secrets from past members, awkward interactions: the attention to the interpersonal details is the stuff of great comics. And Carlos Pacheco, one of my favourite current pencillers, does some really great fight scenes. The heroes look incredibly athletic, and their feats really do seem fantastic. And co-writers Kurt Busiek and Roger Stern do an AWESOME job of characterizing one of the most interesting and powerful villains in the Marvel Universe, Kang the Conqueror. After reading this, he's become one of my favourite villains.
However, it's not all interdimensional hijinks and kicks to the face. There is a LOT of exposition in this book: explaining who some characters are in great detail, retelling old Avengers adventures from the past, retconning certain character developments. It's hard to read an issue when about 3/4 of it feels like it is footnotes. Add to that the fact that the story seemed really convoluted. Long-time Avengers readers probably ate it up, but even with the amount of exposition I sometimes felt overwhelmed by the continuity. The inks on Pacheco's pencils seemed a little thin; I would have liked to have seen a stronger line on some of the characters, particularly when they were in the foreground. Also, the dialogue seemed a little trite sometimes. I think that was probably Stern's influence more than Busiek, but I felt sometimes like it was hackneyed dialogued lifted right from the Bronze age that seemed out of place in this book. (Note: nothing wrong with the Bronze Age, per se. Just...well, the dialogue wasn't always the most plausible.)
Overall I thought that this book was high adventure that was a little too bogged down. Long-time Marvel and Avengers fans would definitely like it, but the casual reader such as myself might feel overwhelmed, despite the book's strengths.
However, it's not all interdimensional hijinks and kicks to the face. There is a LOT of exposition in this book: explaining who some characters are in great detail, retelling old Avengers adventures from the past, retconning certain character developments. It's hard to read an issue when about 3/4 of it feels like it is footnotes. Add to that the fact that the story seemed really convoluted. Long-time Avengers readers probably ate it up, but even with the amount of exposition I sometimes felt overwhelmed by the continuity. The inks on Pacheco's pencils seemed a little thin; I would have liked to have seen a stronger line on some of the characters, particularly when they were in the foreground. Also, the dialogue seemed a little trite sometimes. I think that was probably Stern's influence more than Busiek, but I felt sometimes like it was hackneyed dialogued lifted right from the Bronze age that seemed out of place in this book. (Note: nothing wrong with the Bronze Age, per se. Just...well, the dialogue wasn't always the most plausible.)
Overall I thought that this book was high adventure that was a little too bogged down. Long-time Marvel and Avengers fans would definitely like it, but the casual reader such as myself might feel overwhelmed, despite the book's strengths.
mark_cc's review
3.0
The second and fourth quarters are pretty fun and weird, and likely what drive calling this one of the best Avengers stories ever. But it starts off kind of confusing (why these specific characters? you can't think of anyone more emblematic of the Avengers than Songbird and Genis?) and issues 7 & 8 (I think) are nothing but captioned explanations of capital-C Continuity for Kang and Immortus and it really really gets tedious.
I LOVED the notes in the back telling me where every alternate universe Avenger was from. I just might have to go read New Warriors #11 (spoiler: I am not going to read New Warriors #11)!
I LOVED the notes in the back telling me where every alternate universe Avenger was from. I just might have to go read New Warriors #11 (spoiler: I am not going to read New Warriors #11)!