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3.95 AVERAGE
3.95 AVERAGE
challenging
dark
informative
dark
Krakauers bias against the Mormon church was prominent throughout this book. The line between the extremist FLDS and the LDS Mormon church it self was not always specified as he recounts the history of the FLDS group. This extremist religious group that led these men to eventually commit their crimes. I did enjoy how he uses the history to show how these men could have these values that led them to murder. I do find that Krakauer has a tendency to jump around making some connections hard to follow. I also wish more of this book was about the mentioned crime.
informative
medium-paced
3.5. Heavy in the history of the FLDS. Thought it would be more centered on the crime story.
It's painful to look at the domino effect of one's religion. I am no stranger to mormonism's extremism in God's name and this uproots it to a bigger picture.
An interesting, and haunting, book. Loved reading the history of the Mormon church, a religion established in modern times, and, as such, one subject to the judgement of the masses, who recorded their impressions of the church's founding leaders and actions like never before (compared to those religions founded in ancient times). It is the relationship between violence and Mormon fundamentalism, however, that made parts of this book difficult to read. By the end of the book, the overall message of the history described reveals that fundamentalism, in any religion, can be a frightening influence on individuals.
challenging
This was my second time reading this book since it was first released. However, since I had forgotten most it beyond “The Mormons don’t come off well here,” I decided it was time to re-read it, especially with the Hulu series on the way.
But Under the Banner of Heaven is really three stories. There’s the story of the Lafferty murders (which I suspect serves as the plot of the miniseries); the story of Mormon Fundamentalism; and the history of Mormonism as shown by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and their followers.
It’s clear (and Krakauer says as much himself) that this was a story about how far people of any faith will go. Along the way, Krakauer raises familiar questions: what’s the difference between religion and a cult? What makes one religion more valid than another? Aren’t they all just stories designed to make us feel better? Why does fundamentalism surface in all religions? Why is someone who believes in religion deemed sane while someone who behaves outside of societal norms but within their faith deemed insane?
These are interesting, albeit basic, queries one might find in a college seminar. What makes the book a compelling read is that it’s true crime through the lens of fanatical devotion. And yet as a history of Mormonism, it seems to be missing the history of the mainstream. Krakauer acknowledges that your average LDS member is likely a member of middle America, but Under the Banner of Heaven is a history of the faith’s extremism. One can argue that extremism still permeates the institution, but it seems unfair to ignore the values of adherents when FLDS followers receive attention.
While Mormonism is growing at an astonishing rate, Under the Banner of Heaven never seems primarily interested in the average Mormon. I don’t know what their worship looks like, and while Krakauer never intimates that such worship is the focus of his book, it seems shortsighted to tell a story about religion but only through its extremists. To borrow a comparison Krakauer employs, I doubt we would be comfortable with an author who sought to tell a story about Islam with the 9/11 attacks as the centerpiece of the story. Perhaps Krakauer would retort that he sought to tell a story about Mormon Fundamentalism, not mainstream Mormonism, but I would counter that in Under the Banner of Heaven, mainstream Mormonism is difficult to find.
But Under the Banner of Heaven is really three stories. There’s the story of the Lafferty murders (which I suspect serves as the plot of the miniseries); the story of Mormon Fundamentalism; and the history of Mormonism as shown by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and their followers.
It’s clear (and Krakauer says as much himself) that this was a story about how far people of any faith will go. Along the way, Krakauer raises familiar questions: what’s the difference between religion and a cult? What makes one religion more valid than another? Aren’t they all just stories designed to make us feel better? Why does fundamentalism surface in all religions? Why is someone who believes in religion deemed sane while someone who behaves outside of societal norms but within their faith deemed insane?
These are interesting, albeit basic, queries one might find in a college seminar. What makes the book a compelling read is that it’s true crime through the lens of fanatical devotion. And yet as a history of Mormonism, it seems to be missing the history of the mainstream. Krakauer acknowledges that your average LDS member is likely a member of middle America, but Under the Banner of Heaven is a history of the faith’s extremism. One can argue that extremism still permeates the institution, but it seems unfair to ignore the values of adherents when FLDS followers receive attention.
While Mormonism is growing at an astonishing rate, Under the Banner of Heaven never seems primarily interested in the average Mormon. I don’t know what their worship looks like, and while Krakauer never intimates that such worship is the focus of his book, it seems shortsighted to tell a story about religion but only through its extremists. To borrow a comparison Krakauer employs, I doubt we would be comfortable with an author who sought to tell a story about Islam with the 9/11 attacks as the centerpiece of the story. Perhaps Krakauer would retort that he sought to tell a story about Mormon Fundamentalism, not mainstream Mormonism, but I would counter that in Under the Banner of Heaven, mainstream Mormonism is difficult to find.
Read this for my book group. The meeting is tonight and I cannot wait for the discussion. I know it has provoked strong responses, since someone who had to make a last-minute trip out of town will be Skyping in to the meeting. Some will have been totally turned off by the events of the book and others will be fascinated.
This is a difficult book to read, as it focuses so much on what drives fundamentalists to do the things that they do. I have never understood how fundamentalists of any faith always focus on destroying anything with which they do not believe. It has certainly been one reason that I have abandoned organized religion.
My situation is unique in this instance:
I am a non-Mormon who lived in Utah at the time of these murders.
My husband and I both worked at a daily newspaper, so we were caught up in this as a news story.
My feelings about the LDS church were formed as a result of living, working, and raising children in the community.
So, before I review this book, I want to participate in the discussion.
We had a great meeting. I do not remember the last time EVERYONE in our group read and finished the book. The discussion centered less on the events in the book than on the readers' response to what individuals are capable of accepting/believing. Members who practice their faith and accept their own religion's teachings seemed to have a hard time seeing the validity of the LDS tenets. The only thing I could see is that what is unfamiliar makes you uncomfortable.
My feeling is that EVERY religion is based on events and people who can be hard to swallow from a purely logical and practical perspective. Faith is a powerful force, and I have frequently admired and even envied, individuals whose faith helps them accept life's blows. That, to me, is the highest and best application of faith. The next is to "do unto others...." without expecting anything in return.
However, I find that the most common role of faith is to hurt, alienate, condemn, and persecute those with different views. I don't consider the Lafferty Brothers insane. They have very sanely found a socially acceptable way to subjugate others. Who can possibly dispute the idea that one's god is speaking to one? In the Old Testament, god tells Abraham to kill his son. People have been aghast at the demand, but applauded Abraham's faith and willingness to obey his god. Throughout the history of the world, there are countless examples of indviduals sharing what is believed to be god's word. The people who believe them become the faithful. You can't pick and choose which religions' adherents actually do have a direct line to their lord and which are just crazy people hearing voices.
A true believer is a true believer. Presented with facts that prove their view is mistaken, they will refuse to change their stance. It's not just religion. It's politics, it's policy, it's everywhere.
This book chronicles a really tragic event that came about because individuals took their faith to an extreme and selected the components that would justify the course they wanted to follow. They were determined to uphold the concepts of blood atonement and plural marriage, but completely overlooked the rules against using drugs and alcohol.
Looking at this kind of behavior and applying it to society at large, comparing it to how the faithful of every religion or social movement, is truly fascinating.
This is a difficult book to read, as it focuses so much on what drives fundamentalists to do the things that they do. I have never understood how fundamentalists of any faith always focus on destroying anything with which they do not believe. It has certainly been one reason that I have abandoned organized religion.
My situation is unique in this instance:
I am a non-Mormon who lived in Utah at the time of these murders.
My husband and I both worked at a daily newspaper, so we were caught up in this as a news story.
My feelings about the LDS church were formed as a result of living, working, and raising children in the community.
So, before I review this book, I want to participate in the discussion.
We had a great meeting. I do not remember the last time EVERYONE in our group read and finished the book. The discussion centered less on the events in the book than on the readers' response to what individuals are capable of accepting/believing. Members who practice their faith and accept their own religion's teachings seemed to have a hard time seeing the validity of the LDS tenets. The only thing I could see is that what is unfamiliar makes you uncomfortable.
My feeling is that EVERY religion is based on events and people who can be hard to swallow from a purely logical and practical perspective. Faith is a powerful force, and I have frequently admired and even envied, individuals whose faith helps them accept life's blows. That, to me, is the highest and best application of faith. The next is to "do unto others...." without expecting anything in return.
However, I find that the most common role of faith is to hurt, alienate, condemn, and persecute those with different views. I don't consider the Lafferty Brothers insane. They have very sanely found a socially acceptable way to subjugate others. Who can possibly dispute the idea that one's god is speaking to one? In the Old Testament, god tells Abraham to kill his son. People have been aghast at the demand, but applauded Abraham's faith and willingness to obey his god. Throughout the history of the world, there are countless examples of indviduals sharing what is believed to be god's word. The people who believe them become the faithful. You can't pick and choose which religions' adherents actually do have a direct line to their lord and which are just crazy people hearing voices.
A true believer is a true believer. Presented with facts that prove their view is mistaken, they will refuse to change their stance. It's not just religion. It's politics, it's policy, it's everywhere.
This book chronicles a really tragic event that came about because individuals took their faith to an extreme and selected the components that would justify the course they wanted to follow. They were determined to uphold the concepts of blood atonement and plural marriage, but completely overlooked the rules against using drugs and alcohol.
Looking at this kind of behavior and applying it to society at large, comparing it to how the faithful of every religion or social movement, is truly fascinating.