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akgrantmatz's review against another edition
dark
emotional
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.5
The characters in the book are highly unlikeable, but their facets are also like those of every person you have ever met. It is dark, and triggering, and you constantly wish they would all make better decisions and better relationships, but also understand them making those choices.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Addiction, Alcoholism, Animal death, Drug abuse, Drug use, Infidelity, Mental illness, Sexual content, Suicidal thoughts, Suicide, Toxic relationship, Forced institutionalization, Blood, Grief, Suicide attempt, Death of parent, Toxic friendship, Alcohol, and Injury/Injury detail
Moderate: Adult/minor relationship, Chronic illness, Death, Physical abuse, Sexual assault, Death of parent, Outing, Abandonment, Sexual harassment, and Classism
Minor: Transphobia and Vomit
solspringsreads's review against another edition
dark
emotional
hopeful
reflective
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
I enjoyed this book, but I definitely wish I’d known about several big trigger warnings that were complete shocks to me (including multiple graphic animal deaths and transphobia that results in violence—I had no clue that this book involved animals OR queer people before reading). These missing warnings didn’t negatively impact my reading of the book, but they feel symptomatic of what is maybe a larger issue I had with the book: there were a lot of scenes that felt maybe gratuitously violent/detailed in a way that was almost unnecessary for the actual plot.
Cleopatra and Frankenstein is pretty much what it says on the tin (and the plot summary): a book about a couple with a large age gap who are both deeply flawed individuals, and the ways their relationship affects the people in their lives as well as how their lives are affected in turn. I didn’t expect this book to have shifting perspectives in each chapter and to focus so heavily on characters aside from the two titular protagonists, but I actually found myself preferring the chapters that gave us insight into the larger context of Cleo and Frank’s relationship. Although I wish I could get more context for certain characters and the changes in their lives, it almost felt true to life: sometimes the people you care about extremely deeply will have major life changes that you know almost nothing about, and you don’t get closure. This also felt like it was reflective of how self-absorbed Cleo and Frank were, in that their friends like Quentin and Zoe were going through some significant life changes and crises of their own, but by the end of the book we get little to no information on the outcomes of these events. From a realism standpoint, this was amazing… but from a reader’s standpoint, I definitely felt sad that the most of an ending I could get for my favorite characters was “They hopefully aren’t dead in a ditch.” On the other hand, during each characters’ respective chapter, we got a significant amount of insight into their personal lives with only limited references to the titular characters in a way that felt kind of unnecessary to the plot; sure, I get that pointing out the irony of an overweight culinary master who’s on a pretty strict diet is Fun Social Commentary™ and the fact that Cleo and Frank barely know about this characters’ struggle or reference it during their chapters is reflective of their self-involvement, but like… again, as a reader, part of me feels like these scenes are such unnecessary tangents to the protagonists’ actual character arcs. Most of the changes and “growth” that Cleo and Frank have and go through feel random and unearned, like the novel has to explicitly tell us that they’ve changed because we spent so much time focusing on Anders’s strained relationship with his son.
Relatedly, the dialogue in this book gets kinda silly. I listened to the audiobook so my impressions of certain scenes might be very different than those of a reader of a physical copy, but there were several bits of dialogue that had me rolling my eyes. Chapter 13 is one particularly example of this issue: somehow, the dialogue between Cleo and Frank felt simultaneously too realistic and too forced, like the author couldn’t decide if she wanted to capture what arguments were actually like (including the awkward pauses, the ways people cut each other off) or what arguments felt like (focusing on the inner turmoil of each character between the lines or the minute cues of body language to show how they feel). The characters constantly talked around their issues, which is again, true to life, but unfortunately the nothing-dialogue can lead to some pretty lackluster “big fight” scenes.
There are lots of stereotypes abound in a way that is almost maybe social commentary until you look up the author and see that she is a conventionally attractive cis blonde woman and suddenly you go, “Wow, this is a book that has a lot of transphobia during the narration from a character who is heavily implied if not outright stated to be a trans woman, and while it’s positioned in a way that feels like it’s supposed to be representative of internalized transphobia, this does maybe feel weird in the broader context of this being a book about the relationship between two flawed mostly-heterosexual cisgender people!” Likewise, LOTS of really random comments about race and ethnic stereotypes that feel like they should maybe be satire except that they’re completely unchallenged… or challenged in a way that the book immediately mocks. Maybe there’s an argument that the book as a whole is satirical, and while it does have moments where that feels clear, it often clumsily treads the fine line between making fun of stereotypes and perpetuating those same stereotypes.
Despite everything, though, I was totally wrapped up in this book. I binged the whole audiobook during a knitting-induced frenzy (which resulted in an all-nighter) and still felt so awed by how beautiful certain parts of the prose sounded, especially during Santiago and Eleanor’s chapters, and the philosophical ideas explored during Zoe’s chapters. I became emotionally invested in these somewhat stereotypical characters for an evening, and I truly do feel like there are moments and scenes from this book that will stay with me even now that I’ve finished it.
Overall, this was a pretty standard entry in the subcategory of litfic about beautiful yet waifish blondes who do a lot of drugs in New York and feel miserable about the older men and so-called friends with which they surround themselves. Somehow, the hype is completely understandable and yet overdone in a way that’s to be expected for this type of novel. (There’s always hype around books about sad beautiful women with addictions living in big cities, even if those books are mostly the same.) Despite my many criticisms and the fact that this book isn’t particularly unique in its plot or commentary, I still mostly enjoyed this and would (VERY VERY tentatively and with many caveats and warnings) recommend this to others, if only to discuss some of the things I might take issue with in the book.
Cleopatra and Frankenstein is pretty much what it says on the tin (and the plot summary): a book about a couple with a large age gap who are both deeply flawed individuals, and the ways their relationship affects the people in their lives as well as how their lives are affected in turn. I didn’t expect this book to have shifting perspectives in each chapter and to focus so heavily on characters aside from the two titular protagonists, but I actually found myself preferring the chapters that gave us insight into the larger context of Cleo and Frank’s relationship. Although I wish I could get more context for certain characters and the changes in their lives, it almost felt true to life: sometimes the people you care about extremely deeply will have major life changes that you know almost nothing about, and you don’t get closure. This also felt like it was reflective of how self-absorbed Cleo and Frank were, in that their friends like Quentin and Zoe were going through some significant life changes and crises of their own, but by the end of the book we get little to no information on the outcomes of these events. From a realism standpoint, this was amazing… but from a reader’s standpoint, I definitely felt sad that the most of an ending I could get for my favorite characters was “They hopefully aren’t dead in a ditch.” On the other hand, during each characters’ respective chapter, we got a significant amount of insight into their personal lives with only limited references to the titular characters in a way that felt kind of unnecessary to the plot; sure, I get that pointing out the irony of an overweight culinary master who’s on a pretty strict diet is Fun Social Commentary™ and the fact that Cleo and Frank barely know about this characters’ struggle or reference it during their chapters is reflective of their self-involvement, but like… again, as a reader, part of me feels like these scenes are such unnecessary tangents to the protagonists’ actual character arcs. Most of the changes and “growth” that Cleo and Frank have and go through feel random and unearned, like the novel has to explicitly tell us that they’ve changed because we spent so much time focusing on Anders’s strained relationship with his son.
Relatedly, the dialogue in this book gets kinda silly. I listened to the audiobook so my impressions of certain scenes might be very different than those of a reader of a physical copy, but there were several bits of dialogue that had me rolling my eyes. Chapter 13 is one particularly example of this issue: somehow, the dialogue between Cleo and Frank felt simultaneously too realistic and too forced, like the author couldn’t decide if she wanted to capture what arguments were actually like (including the awkward pauses, the ways people cut each other off) or what arguments felt like (focusing on the inner turmoil of each character between the lines or the minute cues of body language to show how they feel). The characters constantly talked around their issues, which is again, true to life, but unfortunately the nothing-dialogue can lead to some pretty lackluster “big fight” scenes.
There are lots of stereotypes abound in a way that is almost maybe social commentary until you look up the author and see that she is a conventionally attractive cis blonde woman and suddenly you go, “Wow, this is a book that has a lot of transphobia during the narration from a character who is heavily implied if not outright stated to be a trans woman, and while it’s positioned in a way that feels like it’s supposed to be representative of internalized transphobia, this does maybe feel weird in the broader context of this being a book about the relationship between two flawed mostly-heterosexual cisgender people!” Likewise, LOTS of really random comments about race and ethnic stereotypes that feel like they should maybe be satire except that they’re completely unchallenged… or challenged in a way that the book immediately mocks. Maybe there’s an argument that the book as a whole is satirical, and while it does have moments where that feels clear, it often clumsily treads the fine line between making fun of stereotypes and perpetuating those same stereotypes.
Despite everything, though, I was totally wrapped up in this book. I binged the whole audiobook during a knitting-induced frenzy (which resulted in an all-nighter) and still felt so awed by how beautiful certain parts of the prose sounded, especially during Santiago and Eleanor’s chapters, and the philosophical ideas explored during Zoe’s chapters. I became emotionally invested in these somewhat stereotypical characters for an evening, and I truly do feel like there are moments and scenes from this book that will stay with me even now that I’ve finished it.
Overall, this was a pretty standard entry in the subcategory of litfic about beautiful yet waifish blondes who do a lot of drugs in New York and feel miserable about the older men and so-called friends with which they surround themselves. Somehow, the hype is completely understandable and yet overdone in a way that’s to be expected for this type of novel. (There’s always hype around books about sad beautiful women with addictions living in big cities, even if those books are mostly the same.) Despite my many criticisms and the fact that this book isn’t particularly unique in its plot or commentary, I still mostly enjoyed this and would (VERY VERY tentatively and with many caveats and warnings) recommend this to others, if only to discuss some of the things I might take issue with in the book.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Addiction, Alcoholism, Animal death, Death, Drug abuse, Drug use, Eating disorder, Emotional abuse, Fatphobia, Gore, Hate crime, Infidelity, Mental illness, Physical abuse, Self harm, Sexism, Sexual content, Sexual violence, Suicidal thoughts, Suicide, Toxic relationship, Transphobia, Violence, Xenophobia, Dementia, Grief, Suicide attempt, Death of parent, Outing, Toxic friendship, Abandonment, Alcohol, Dysphoria, Injury/Injury detail, and Classism
babsi_222's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
informative
reflective
tense
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
Spoilers!!!!
Soooo many ts songs reminded me of this book!!!
Deeply flawed characters and toxic relationships. Everyone struggles.
I Never liked Cleo and Frank‘s Relationship (i don’t like the age gap) and I don’t like them both that much. I like Cleo sometimes too, she can be relatable. The chapters are quite long but that didn’t bother me very much- the usual POV‘S are Cleo and Frank but you got like 1-2 chapters in the POV of Zoe, Eleanor, Quentin and Santiago
The two chapters that were Eleanor‘s POV i didn’t like, I don’t know why there were that many small paragraphs with stuff I don’t care about. Her and Frank‘s relationship was something I also never liked. A lot of things were predictable in this book but there were also plottwists so it’s fine if.
Quentin is very strange and I was always a bit scared of him tbh because he’s just so uncomfortable. I kneeew that Alex was bad for him tbh (I thought it was cute in the beginning in Quentin‘s POV but then in the other people‘s POV i saw the problematic)
I loveee Zoe. I think she was my fav person in the book. I could sympathies with her (more in the end not so much in the beginning) Santiago is I think the only unproblematic character in the book. I love him and I’m sooo happy for how his life‘s like now.
My fav scene is the one where Audrey, Cleo and Zoe spend time together (p 82- 91) especially the part when they went home to Cleo‘s (i think) ❤️❤️❤️
Cleo:
+ an artist
+ a feminist that puts people in their place
+ „ you want credit for not leaving me? Are you joking? Sorry Frank, but you married me…“ (p261)
+ she has a smooth way of feeling and she feels so much
- she complained about her pain when they had THAT fight but didn’t care about Frank‘s pin at all
- in general made some poor ass arguments in that fight
- „Could it be? Are we back here again? At Frank pity party?“ (p261) HUGE L
- compared her trauma to Frank‘s 💀
- had an affair
Frank:
+ changed for the better!
+ cares about Eleanor
+ finally cried in the end
+ supported Cleo financially
+ super rich but then not too cocky
- a man
- killed their pet that they loved and lied about it
- bought an illegal pet
- had an affair
- gave his sister money all the time
- alcoholic for the most time of this book
Zoe:
+ has her struggles but powerful
+ sweet and kind
+ the whole thing with Jiro :))
+ the way she connected w Cleo
+ idk but her sexual struggles make her so much more sympathetic
+ the scene were she layers on the ground next to Cleo (p 312) ❤️❤️
- asking her brother for money all the time
- doesn’t know how to spend money
„The parties, Sex, alcohol and drug use is so New York City aesthetic“…. Girl wtf no it’s literally not.
„ everyone we know in NY is an addict, aren’t they?“ (p355) lol yeah they are. The way drugs are used in the book is sooooo bad holy shit especially like Quentin and Alex and stuff but actually they all.
Soooo many ts songs reminded me of this book!!!
Deeply flawed characters and toxic relationships. Everyone struggles.
I Never liked Cleo and Frank‘s Relationship (i don’t like the age gap) and I don’t like them both that much. I like Cleo sometimes too, she can be relatable. The chapters are quite long but that didn’t bother me very much- the usual POV‘S are Cleo and Frank but you got like 1-2 chapters in the POV of Zoe, Eleanor, Quentin and Santiago
The two chapters that were Eleanor‘s POV i didn’t like, I don’t know why there were that many small paragraphs with stuff I don’t care about. Her and Frank‘s relationship was something I also never liked. A lot of things were predictable in this book but there were also plottwists so it’s fine if.
Quentin is very strange and I was always a bit scared of him tbh because he’s just so uncomfortable. I kneeew that Alex was bad for him tbh (I thought it was cute in the beginning in Quentin‘s POV but then in the other people‘s POV i saw the problematic)
I loveee Zoe. I think she was my fav person in the book. I could sympathies with her (more in the end not so much in the beginning) Santiago is I think the only unproblematic character in the book. I love him and I’m sooo happy for how his life‘s like now.
My fav scene is the one where Audrey, Cleo and Zoe spend time together (p 82- 91) especially the part when they went home to Cleo‘s (i think) ❤️❤️❤️
Cleo:
+ an artist
+ a feminist that puts people in their place
+ „ you want credit for not leaving me? Are you joking? Sorry Frank, but you married me…“ (p261)
+ she has a smooth way of feeling and she feels so much
- she complained about her pain when they had THAT fight but didn’t care about Frank‘s pin at all
- in general made some poor ass arguments in that fight
- „Could it be? Are we back here again? At Frank pity party?“ (p261) HUGE L
- compared her trauma to Frank‘s 💀
- had an affair
Frank:
+ changed for the better!
+ cares about Eleanor
+ finally cried in the end
+ supported Cleo financially
+ super rich but then not too cocky
- a man
- killed their pet that they loved and lied about it
- bought an illegal pet
- had an affair
- gave his sister money all the time
- alcoholic for the most time of this book
Zoe:
+ has her struggles but powerful
+ sweet and kind
+ the whole thing with Jiro :))
+ the way she connected w Cleo
+ idk but her sexual struggles make her so much more sympathetic
+ the scene were she layers on the ground next to Cleo (p 312) ❤️❤️
- asking her brother for money all the time
- doesn’t know how to spend money
„The parties, Sex, alcohol and drug use is so New York City aesthetic“…. Girl wtf no it’s literally not.
„ everyone we know in NY is an addict, aren’t they?“ (p355) lol yeah they are. The way drugs are used in the book is sooooo bad holy shit especially like Quentin and Alex and stuff but actually they all.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Addiction, Adult/minor relationship, Alcoholism, Animal death, Cursing, Drug abuse, Drug use, Self harm, Sexism, Sexual content, Suicidal thoughts, Toxic relationship, Blood, Grief, Suicide attempt, Death of parent, Outing, Toxic friendship, Alcohol, and Sexual harassment
skyfluff8's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
reflective
sad
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
5.0
Content Warnings
Moderate: Addiction, Alcoholism, Animal death, Body horror, Cursing, Domestic abuse, Drug abuse, Drug use, Emotional abuse, Infidelity, Mental illness, Self harm, Sexual content, Suicidal thoughts, Toxic relationship, Blood, Vomit, Medical content, Dementia, Suicide attempt, Death of parent, Outing, Abandonment, Alcohol, and Injury/Injury detail
impeachnixon's review
dark
emotional
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
1.0
** spoiler alert **
While I understand that this book was trying to tell many interconnected stories, I think there were just too many people with too serious of issues to really be done well. Quentin's meth use, for example, isn't really explored as well as it could be, and so I feel like it was weird that it was included at all. I'm not complaining about the end of his story, because I think it's interesting actually to just have Cleo say "I couldn't support him and so I ended that friendship". It just feels like Quentin's spiral into addiction to meth was a huge thing to happen off-screen, but also a necessary result of trying to tell 1,000 stories at once (and having all of those stories tackle very serious issues). Plus, why mention Quentin being possibly trans or genderqueer if you're never going to mention it again? It ends up simplifying a lot of serious issues, like Santiago's recovery from binge eating disorder really just coming down to "he's going to meetings and now he's losing weight", with the bulk of it being explored in a single chapter. This problem even extends to the titular couple, Cleo and Frank. Cleo's suicide attempt, for example, seemed a little brushed over, and it didn't help that we switched to the perspective of the caterer at her wedding after the attempt. It was a beautifully written book and it did have plenty of fleshed out, interesting characters, but it could use with some trimming and some more focus. What happened to Ander's 'son', for instance, or Zoe's financial situation? Is she being financially supported by Jiro, and, if so, what implications does that have for their relationship? And I'd be fine with a book not completely tying up every single loose end for every single side character except that there were chapters that interrupted the main story to ask me to care about all these side characters and then sometimes very little resolution.
While I understand that this book was trying to tell many interconnected stories, I think there were just too many people with too serious of issues to really be done well. Quentin's meth use, for example, isn't really explored as well as it could be, and so I feel like it was weird that it was included at all. I'm not complaining about the end of his story, because I think it's interesting actually to just have Cleo say "I couldn't support him and so I ended that friendship". It just feels like Quentin's spiral into addiction to meth was a huge thing to happen off-screen, but also a necessary result of trying to tell 1,000 stories at once (and having all of those stories tackle very serious issues). Plus, why mention Quentin being possibly trans or genderqueer if you're never going to mention it again? It ends up simplifying a lot of serious issues, like Santiago's recovery from binge eating disorder really just coming down to "he's going to meetings and now he's losing weight", with the bulk of it being explored in a single chapter. This problem even extends to the titular couple, Cleo and Frank. Cleo's suicide attempt, for example, seemed a little brushed over, and it didn't help that we switched to the perspective of the caterer at her wedding after the attempt. It was a beautifully written book and it did have plenty of fleshed out, interesting characters, but it could use with some trimming and some more focus. What happened to Ander's 'son', for instance, or Zoe's financial situation? Is she being financially supported by Jiro, and, if so, what implications does that have for their relationship? And I'd be fine with a book not completely tying up every single loose end for every single side character except that there were chapters that interrupted the main story to ask me to care about all these side characters and then sometimes very little resolution.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Addiction, Alcoholism, Animal death, Cursing, Drug abuse, Drug use, Eating disorder, Emotional abuse, Infidelity, Sexual content, Suicide, Toxic relationship, Blood, Suicide attempt, Death of parent, Toxic friendship, Alcohol, Dysphoria, and Injury/Injury detail
Moderate: Sexism, Transphobia, Fire/Fire injury, Outing, and Abandonment
Minor: Acephobia/Arophobia