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3.84 AVERAGE
3.84 AVERAGE
emotional
reflective
slow-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
A mix
Strong character development:
No
Loveable characters:
Complicated
Diverse cast of characters:
No
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
나가이 다이스케와 히라오카 쓰네지로의 "우정과 배신" 이야기. 다이스케가 친구였던 히라오카에게 자신이 좋아하던 여자인 미치요를 아내로 소개시켜주면서 일어나는 삼각관계 연애(?)소설.
흥미로운 점들 메모해둔 것
* 세대 차이에 의한 가정 불화. 아버지와 아들은 거의 말이 통하지 않는 것 같다. 아버지는 아직도 가문과 제국을 생각하지만, 다이스케는 그런 것에 전혀 관심이 없어보인다. 미치요의 아이가 죽은 것도 미래의 세대에 대한 비관이 아닌가 생각해본다. 다이스케와 같은 사람이라고 생각하면 그러니까.
* 영어의 중요성. 소세키의 다른 에세이가 생각났는데, 막상 찾자니 어디있는지 잘 모르겠다. 영국에서 자전거를 타는 법을 배우던 에세이 같은데... 77-78 페이지의 외국인에 대한 묘사도 흥미로웠다고 생각한다.
* 문학에 대한 comment들. 매우 많다. 러시아 문학, 프랑스 문학, 미국 철학자들...
* 세계 속의 일본. 103-106 페이지에 표현된 생각들을 postcolonial theory로 본다면 어떨까?
* 돈과 노동의 의미. 다이스케와 히라오카가 상반된 입장을 가지는 부분. 다이스케의 말 "모든 신성한 일이란 인간이 살아가기 위한 빵과는 무관한 법이야" (107) 라는 말은 한편으로는 로맨틱하게 들리면서도 또 한편으로는 정말 계급의식이 전혀 없는 사람이나 할 법한 말이라고 생각한다. (106-108 페이지의 '토론' 참고) 특히 급변하는 세상 속에서 달라지는 계급/노동/돈 사이의 관계를 살펴보는 것도 흥미로울 듯하다. 한때는 나도 다이스케 같이 노동에 대해 로맨틱한 생각을 했던 것 같은데 지금 생각해보면 참 한심한 일이다..
* Red image. 타들어가는 듯한 빨강으로 끝나는 소설. 토리이에 대한 다이스케의 한마디와 겉표지와 너무나도 잘 어울리는 결말. 소설의 다른 부분들은 딱히 감명깊다고 생각하지 않았는데 마지막 이 부분만큼은 강력했던 것 같다.
* 농담으로나마 高等遊民 ("고학력의 한량")을 내 "dumb Chinese tattoo"로 해야겠다고 이야기했다. ㅋㅋ
흥미로운 점들 메모해둔 것
* 세대 차이에 의한 가정 불화. 아버지와 아들은 거의 말이 통하지 않는 것 같다. 아버지는 아직도 가문과 제국을 생각하지만, 다이스케는 그런 것에 전혀 관심이 없어보인다. 미치요의 아이가 죽은 것도 미래의 세대에 대한 비관이 아닌가 생각해본다. 다이스케와 같은 사람이라고 생각하면 그러니까.
* 영어의 중요성. 소세키의 다른 에세이가 생각났는데, 막상 찾자니 어디있는지 잘 모르겠다. 영국에서 자전거를 타는 법을 배우던 에세이 같은데... 77-78 페이지의 외국인에 대한 묘사도 흥미로웠다고 생각한다.
* 문학에 대한 comment들. 매우 많다. 러시아 문학, 프랑스 문학, 미국 철학자들...
* 세계 속의 일본. 103-106 페이지에 표현된 생각들을 postcolonial theory로 본다면 어떨까?
* 돈과 노동의 의미. 다이스케와 히라오카가 상반된 입장을 가지는 부분. 다이스케의 말 "모든 신성한 일이란 인간이 살아가기 위한 빵과는 무관한 법이야" (107) 라는 말은 한편으로는 로맨틱하게 들리면서도 또 한편으로는 정말 계급의식이 전혀 없는 사람이나 할 법한 말이라고 생각한다. (106-108 페이지의 '토론' 참고) 특히 급변하는 세상 속에서 달라지는 계급/노동/돈 사이의 관계를 살펴보는 것도 흥미로울 듯하다. 한때는 나도 다이스케 같이 노동에 대해 로맨틱한 생각을 했던 것 같은데 지금 생각해보면 참 한심한 일이다..
* Red image. 타들어가는 듯한 빨강으로 끝나는 소설. 토리이에 대한 다이스케의 한마디와 겉표지와 너무나도 잘 어울리는 결말. 소설의 다른 부분들은 딱히 감명깊다고 생각하지 않았는데 마지막 이 부분만큼은 강력했던 것 같다.
* 농담으로나마 高等遊民 ("고학력의 한량")을 내 "dumb Chinese tattoo"로 해야겠다고 이야기했다. ㅋㅋ
reflective
slow-paced
A story that makes one deeply lonely and makes a person want to find an isolated spot high up in a mountain and sink into the earth.
spoilers below; tried to use the spoiler tags but somehow they don't work on the big chunk
Alienation
- the tension of living as an outcast in a society who, despite not belonging to the masses, still relies on society for your continued existence
- watching everyone around you pass you by as they find their way in life, knowing what to do, how to live, while you yourself drift by waiting for the end. Even as everyone urges Daisuke to do something, get a job, get a wife, none of it is something he particularly wants or needs. Unlike the people around him, without the immediate need to make a living, or any particularly strong interest in any work, what is there left for him, except to reflect on the difference between himself and the world? There is a banality to everything, and with nothing to truly hunger for, Daisuke is just left waiting for things to happen and fade away. Or so it seems to me anyway.
Random thoughts:
Michiyo is not so much a person in her own right (moreso than other non-Daisuke characters) as she is an object, a personification of Daisuke. Their relationship reads more like a vehicle through which the story drives Daisuke away from the view connections he has left to society, as well as his sources of sustenance.
Notable pages:
- 21-22
- 63-67
"What's wrong with you is that you've never had to worry about money. You don't feel like working because you don't have to in order to make ends meet."
...
"It's fine to work, but as long as you're going to work, it ought to be for more than subsistence, else it won't be to your credit. All toil that is sacred transcends the realm of bread... Why? Because toil for the sake of subsistence is not toil for its own sake... it's hard to work sincerely at a job that you're doing just to eat."
"I think it's just the opposite. It's because you're working to eat that you feel like working furiously."
"Maybe you can work furiously, but it's hard to work sincerely. If you're working in order to eat, which do you think is the main object – work or food?"
"Food, of course"
"See? If food's the object and work the means, then it stands to reason that you'll adjust your work to make it easier to eat. In that case, it won't matter what you do or how you do it as long as you can get bread – that's what it's bound to come down to. As long as the content and the direction, or the procedure of a given endeavor are circumscribed by external conditions, then that endeavor is degenerate endeavor."
"But why should it matter?"
...
"Unless you're a man without worries about food and clothing, doing something on a whim as it were, it's impossible to do any serious work."
"So that means only a man in your position is capable of sacred toil. Then it's your duty all the more to do something- 115-116
- 129-130
- 161-162
- 169-170:
"no matter whom we find, she wouldn't suit you, so what I want to say is that it really doesn't make a difference whom you marry. No matter whom we show you, it doesn't do any good. There's not a single person alive in this world who would suit you. That's why you should just accept that a wife isn't meant to be pleasing in the first place, and get married – what other choice is there? If you'd just quietly marry the one we think is best, then everything would be nicely settled"
- --> individual vs society. The alienation one feels of no one truly understanding them, of being alone in the world, yet being pressured to conform to societal norms because even as individuals one does not exist in a vacuum and must still rely on others to live.
- 187-188
- 193-195
- 197-198
Daisuke thought that as a first step, he should seek an occupation. But in his mind there was only the word occupation, and it failed to appear in its fleshly reality. Since he had never before been interested in any occupation, regardless of what he tried to imagine, his mind would only slide over its surface and refuse to break in to consider the internal reality. Society appeared to him like a flat surface partitioned according to a complex colour scheme. And he could only think that he himself had no colour whatsoever.
- 211-216
- 223-224
emotional
informative
reflective
tense
slow-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
Character
Strong character development:
No
Loveable characters:
No
Diverse cast of characters:
No
Flaws of characters a main focus:
Yes
I was extremely pleasantly surprised by 'And Then' by Natsume Sōseki. Sōseki is an author who is much more appreciated in his home country of Japan than abroad, unlike Kawabata who I read earlier this year through the magnificent 'Snow Country'. It's deeply introspective, psychological and reflective - it's a novel of thought and meditation.
The afterword of my volume suggests that this is intended as part of a trilogy with 'Sanshirō' first, this as the middle book, and 'The Gate' last. They each approach different periods in life, young adult, adult and middle-age, so I understand that there shouldn't be any confusion if you read them out of order.
We are set in Meiji period Tokyo, when Japanese ideals are starting to conflict with the modernised Western ones. The main protagonist, Deisuke, is 30, living off of his father, brother and sister-in-law, with two servants and no occupation. Faced with continuous pressures from his family to get married and get a job, Deisuke explores his philosophy of life. Should one do a job without any affinity, how does that speak about one's morality? How should marriage be viewed - legally, social? This question becomes especially relevant as Deisuke reignites a friendship with his friend's wife, Michiyo, who he still regrets not pursuing romantically.
I really enjoyed being alongside Deisuke on his moral dilemma. Don't get me wrong, he displays a lot of privilege, and even his friends and family comment on it. He is considered someone who just goes through the motions without any deep preoccupations, anything bringing him honour, and is criticised for enjoying life a little too much. I agree that, if he were faced with the struggles of poverty, his relationship with money (where he just expects things to resolve themselves), would look widely different. At the same time, he wants to demonstrate that he is a modern man, that marriage is no longer an expectation for him, but at the same time he ignores reconciling what this will mean for the relationship with his family or how he would sustain his new family.
The moments of meditation, almost monologues that characters shared with each other, are smartly interspersed in the plot. It doesn't read old fashioned in the slightest, and if you enjoy Tokyo, this will be a treat. In that sense it almost makes me think of what 'Mrs.' by Virginia Woolf does with London - you're on the streets, looking at the trees, the buildings, going into the bookshop, smelling the flowers, it was so nostalgic for me and evoked many memories of places I've visited and loved. It paints the dynamic feeling very well, enveloping both its traditional arts like kabuki as well as modern ones such as the business world of sugar. This juxtaposition between old and new is present throughout.
A beautiful read, I'd recommend it highly if you're into Japanese literature.
The afterword of my volume suggests that this is intended as part of a trilogy with 'Sanshirō' first, this as the middle book, and 'The Gate' last. They each approach different periods in life, young adult, adult and middle-age, so I understand that there shouldn't be any confusion if you read them out of order.
We are set in Meiji period Tokyo, when Japanese ideals are starting to conflict with the modernised Western ones. The main protagonist, Deisuke, is 30, living off of his father, brother and sister-in-law, with two servants and no occupation. Faced with continuous pressures from his family to get married and get a job, Deisuke explores his philosophy of life. Should one do a job without any affinity, how does that speak about one's morality? How should marriage be viewed - legally, social? This question becomes especially relevant as Deisuke reignites a friendship with his friend's wife, Michiyo, who he still regrets not pursuing romantically.
I really enjoyed being alongside Deisuke on his moral dilemma. Don't get me wrong, he displays a lot of privilege, and even his friends and family comment on it. He is considered someone who just goes through the motions without any deep preoccupations, anything bringing him honour, and is criticised for enjoying life a little too much. I agree that, if he were faced with the struggles of poverty, his relationship with money (where he just expects things to resolve themselves), would look widely different. At the same time, he wants to demonstrate that he is a modern man, that marriage is no longer an expectation for him, but at the same time he ignores reconciling what this will mean for the relationship with his family or how he would sustain his new family.
The moments of meditation, almost monologues that characters shared with each other, are smartly interspersed in the plot. It doesn't read old fashioned in the slightest, and if you enjoy Tokyo, this will be a treat. In that sense it almost makes me think of what 'Mrs.' by Virginia Woolf does with London - you're on the streets, looking at the trees, the buildings, going into the bookshop, smelling the flowers, it was so nostalgic for me and evoked many memories of places I've visited and loved. It paints the dynamic feeling very well, enveloping both its traditional arts like kabuki as well as modern ones such as the business world of sugar. This juxtaposition between old and new is present throughout.
A beautiful read, I'd recommend it highly if you're into Japanese literature.
inspiring
reflective
relaxing
sad
tense
slow-paced
A really interesting book with an amazing description of Daitsuke's character whose personal beliefs and thinkings give me to learn many things. I know I will be thinking about this book for many days. I loved it!
emotional
lighthearted
relaxing
sad
slow-paced
Plot or Character Driven:
Character
Strong character development:
No
Loveable characters:
Yes
Diverse cast of characters:
N/A
Flaws of characters a main focus:
No
I like the story and the quiet beauty it conveys that’s quite often depicted in Japanese literature, but I don’t get the ending, it’s like seeing the lightning in rainy days and as a reader, I expected the story to continue and then found out it ends, out of shock. That’s so saddd.
(3.75/5)
wow i really spread this book out over a longgg time
the language is stunning and the book brought up some intriguing ideas
but the shifts in timing feel too abrupt for my liking and sometimes the run on sentences and description and metaphorical manners of speech get a bit too draggy
i wish we got more of the last two pages with the symbolic imagery of burning and the colour red. the sentence structure also beautifully compounded with this to create easily one of the most captivating sections of the book. not sure if i'm being too harsh but i do find it a shame that it took me the whole book to find a part i liked that much. (though honestly that isn't even necessarily a bad thing, i just think that in the context of this book, in which it took me months to finish because i kept getting bored and stopping to read other things, i would've greatly benefitted from reading something that struck me profoundly much earlier in the book. but of course what piques my interest is an entirely subjective matter that has little to do with the writer's intentions and craft. wow what a long disclaimer)
i didn't like it nearly as much as i deeply loved kokoro but i'm still glad to have read it :-)
wow i really spread this book out over a longgg time
the language is stunning and the book brought up some intriguing ideas
but the shifts in timing feel too abrupt for my liking and sometimes the run on sentences and description and metaphorical manners of speech get a bit too draggy
i wish we got more of the last two pages with the symbolic imagery of burning and the colour red. the sentence structure also beautifully compounded with this to create easily one of the most captivating sections of the book. not sure if i'm being too harsh but i do find it a shame that it took me the whole book to find a part i liked that much. (though honestly that isn't even necessarily a bad thing, i just think that in the context of this book, in which it took me months to finish because i kept getting bored and stopping to read other things, i would've greatly benefitted from reading something that struck me profoundly much earlier in the book. but of course what piques my interest is an entirely subjective matter that has little to do with the writer's intentions and craft. wow what a long disclaimer)
i didn't like it nearly as much as i deeply loved kokoro but i'm still glad to have read it :-)
3/5 (Spoiler Free)
I wanted to try a smaller read before I tackle Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive. Little did I know this book would take me a week to get through, despite not being nearly as long as the novels I'm used to.
As with many Japanese texts I have come to read, And Then is slow-paced...painfully so. That said, it is by no means a bad book. I enjoyed the philosophical arguments Daisuke came up with. At times, he could come off as pretentious but still, there is much to think about.
The plot was engaging, but you have to get through quite a bit of exposition. Daisuke's life revolves around hyper-observation which can be interesting at times but often ends up giving you drawn out paragraphs to read through. I took until about halfway through the book for me to really get hooked. Even still, I got distracted easily.
Perhaps the most interesting part of this book is the relationship between Western and Japanese customs. Daisuke makes his own commentary of it, and there is much to recognize in the events of the novel. While he fights between the customs of society and his personal desires, so too does Japan struggle with its own customs in the face of Western influence. The West/Japan dynamic is more of a backdrop to Daisuke's story, but plays beautifully into it.
I think this book is great for people who are okay with slow-pacing in exchange for more exposition to analyze.
I wanted to try a smaller read before I tackle Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive. Little did I know this book would take me a week to get through, despite not being nearly as long as the novels I'm used to.
As with many Japanese texts I have come to read, And Then is slow-paced...painfully so. That said, it is by no means a bad book. I enjoyed the philosophical arguments Daisuke came up with. At times, he could come off as pretentious but still, there is much to think about.
The plot was engaging, but you have to get through quite a bit of exposition. Daisuke's life revolves around hyper-observation which can be interesting at times but often ends up giving you drawn out paragraphs to read through. I took until about halfway through the book for me to really get hooked. Even still, I got distracted easily.
Perhaps the most interesting part of this book is the relationship between Western and Japanese customs. Daisuke makes his own commentary of it, and there is much to recognize in the events of the novel. While he fights between the customs of society and his personal desires, so too does Japan struggle with its own customs in the face of Western influence. The West/Japan dynamic is more of a backdrop to Daisuke's story, but plays beautifully into it.
I think this book is great for people who are okay with slow-pacing in exchange for more exposition to analyze.
Lido em Português.
Eu me identifiquei bastante com o protagonista - filho mais novo, 30 anos, sem emprego e sem preocupações.
Também me identifiquei com o final.
Eu me identifiquei bastante com o protagonista - filho mais novo, 30 anos, sem emprego e sem preocupações.
Também me identifiquei com o final.