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158 reviews for:
Parenting with Love and Logic: Teaching Children Responsibility
Foster Cline, Jim Fay
3.75 AVERAGE
158 reviews for:
Parenting with Love and Logic: Teaching Children Responsibility
Foster Cline, Jim Fay
3.75 AVERAGE
This is a book that promotes loving parenting by suggesting as parents we offers our children choices rather than demands to prevent and distract from trouble making. It offers some good tips that I have not considered myself before reading this book, but at times when the authors are giving "empathetic suggestions" in response to a child's bad mood or negative behavior, it seems more like they are giving examples of condescension. In general, I do not think there suggestions are the end all be all of parenting, but there are some helpful hints, nonetheless.
Love the idea of giving children choices and letting them experience the natural consequences of them.
Disliked what another review described dressing up punishments with the name of "Logical consequences." Much of it seemed to be about playing with language that I know my kids would see through immediately.
Disliked what another review described dressing up punishments with the name of "Logical consequences." Much of it seemed to be about playing with language that I know my kids would see through immediately.
Gross.
Read [b:The Explosive Child: A New Approach for Understanding and Parenting Easily Frustrated, Chronically Inflexible Children|127641|The Explosive Child A New Approach for Understanding and Parenting Easily Frustrated, Chronically Inflexible Children|Ross W. Greene|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1441747078l/127641._SY75_.jpg|122919] and anything by [a:Alfie Kohn|64319|Alfie Kohn|https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1267597120p2/64319.jpg] instead.
Read [b:The Explosive Child: A New Approach for Understanding and Parenting Easily Frustrated, Chronically Inflexible Children|127641|The Explosive Child A New Approach for Understanding and Parenting Easily Frustrated, Chronically Inflexible Children|Ross W. Greene|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1441747078l/127641._SY75_.jpg|122919] and anything by [a:Alfie Kohn|64319|Alfie Kohn|https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1267597120p2/64319.jpg] instead.
i like the general premise (logical consequences for kids, they have to own and fix their problems) but sometimes it seems carried to an extreme I'd have trouble living with.
Reread 2020: Love and Logic needs to be reviewed at least every couple years of parenting (or educating)! Unfortunately for me, I haven’t reread this since my first read in 2011... when my 12 year old was 3. Upon rereading I found too many things I’ve mishandled over the years.
Now I have a 12 year old and a 1.5 year old and I will reread at least every couple years. (If only there was a way to get a Love and Logic coach in an earbud for when I’m struggling!)
2 Rules of L&L:
1. Adults must set firm, loving limits using enforceable statements without showing anger, lecturing, or using threats.
2. When a child causes a problem, the adult shows empathy through sadness and sorrow and then lovingly hands the problem and its consequences back to the child.
Love and Logic is the use of thinking words, choices, and empathy with the consequences.
Give emotion for the good stuff, but flat tones for negative. Kids thrive on emotion.
Let kids know they are capable of decision making. When they have made a poor decision, the consequences are theirs, not ours, but as a consultant parent, we show empathy. That way we aren’t the bad guy to blame and the child can learn from their mistake instead of focusing on an argument with us and being defensive.
I’d actually rate the book 4.5 stars. Most examples were so cheesy and there were a couple-ish tiny things I didn’t agree with. But nothing that took away from the philosophy as a whole.
2011:
I love Love & Logic... if only it was easy...
Now I have a 12 year old and a 1.5 year old and I will reread at least every couple years. (If only there was a way to get a Love and Logic coach in an earbud for when I’m struggling!)
2 Rules of L&L:
1. Adults must set firm, loving limits using enforceable statements without showing anger, lecturing, or using threats.
2. When a child causes a problem, the adult shows empathy through sadness and sorrow and then lovingly hands the problem and its consequences back to the child.
Love and Logic is the use of thinking words, choices, and empathy with the consequences.
Give emotion for the good stuff, but flat tones for negative. Kids thrive on emotion.
Let kids know they are capable of decision making. When they have made a poor decision, the consequences are theirs, not ours, but as a consultant parent, we show empathy. That way we aren’t the bad guy to blame and the child can learn from their mistake instead of focusing on an argument with us and being defensive.
I’d actually rate the book 4.5 stars. Most examples were so cheesy and there were a couple-ish tiny things I didn’t agree with. But nothing that took away from the philosophy as a whole.
2011:
I love Love & Logic... if only it was easy...
Some good tips, some not so good tips. I'll definitely be using a few of the techniques discussed in this book, but there were also numerous points that I didn't necessarily agree with. I wouldn't consider this the bible of raising good kids, but there are helpful pointers and ideas!
I like the idea of natural consequences. But here's the problem: many of my issues do not have natural consequences, such as my daughter's constant picking up of my 1 year old. CONSTANT! According to the authors, I would devise a consequence then call it a natural consequence: if you pick him up again, you will go to your room, make it up, etc. etc. etc. But that's not a consequence, that's a punishment.
There was also no description of child development. Without knowing what is appropriate behavior or mental development for an average 3, 5 or 7 year old, how can you know your consequences are appropriate?
Finally, the book speaks a lot of parents needing to set the example in organization, hobbies, etc. But this can be so tough! There needed to be more guidance about how a typical day for a love and logic family should operate so that one could know the kind of structure a house should have to implement some of the book's ideas.
There was also no description of child development. Without knowing what is appropriate behavior or mental development for an average 3, 5 or 7 year old, how can you know your consequences are appropriate?
Finally, the book speaks a lot of parents needing to set the example in organization, hobbies, etc. But this can be so tough! There needed to be more guidance about how a typical day for a love and logic family should operate so that one could know the kind of structure a house should have to implement some of the book's ideas.
I really wanted to like this book. I strongly agree with the philosophy of giving children logical consequences rather than engaging in power struggles and shouting matches, or just parenting by incessant nagging without follow-through (yes, guilty). But frankly I found a lot of their "practical tips" completely unrealistic and therefore of limited usefulness.
For instance:
"Bedtime, like many other control issues, can be defused by giving up control. Parents tend to underestimate children's need for just a tiny bit of control [...] all they want is a little control, not the whole enchilada."
So far, so good. Give the child limited control. He has to stay in his room, but he may have the door open or closed, light on or off, music on or off, be in bed or out of bed, sleep or not sleep. You give him the *opportunity* to get as much sleep as he needs, but you can't force him to sleep. Makes sense. But then:
"[The child who hasn't had enough sleep] is going to be one obnoxious little dude in the morning. [...] It's the obnoxiousness we consequence, not the number of hours he sleeps. Say to the child, 'You need to spend more time in your room because you're cranky.' The child will probably say, 'Well, I didn't get enough sleep last night.' [emphasis mine] And your reply? 'Good thinking.' The lesson will hit home."
Okay ... has any child, anywhere, ever acknowledged that they were emotional, moody, and overreacting because they were tired? Many adults won't even acknowledge this. In my experience, suggesting to a fraught child that they may be getting angry because they're tired just brings an increased frenzy. "I am NOT tired, I'm angry because YOU'RE THE MEANEST MOTHER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!" (exact quote)
On temper tantrums: "Kids will throw tantrums only as long as they work. Kids never seem to scream and pound the floor when they're alone in their room, but the show goes on when they have a captive audience." This is laughably, demonstrably false. It would be hilarious -- except that it's so widely believed that it creates a pernicious judgmentalism among the relatives of those of us with rage-prone children. I know for a fact that our daughter's grandparents believe she throws tantrums only because we clearly must "give in" and let her have her way when she screams -- though they've never observed us doing this (because we don't).
How to keep kids in their rooms: "If I can't change his behavior, I change the location." Send him to his room, of course. But how to enforce that? "[A]void physically carrying the child to his room. [...] When the child is around age two, a statement -- 'I want you go to go your room, and I want you to go now" -- spoken firmly and with index finger pointing toward the room will usually get results."
Do these people actually have children? Well, reading on, they do acknowledge that you may need to then shut and lock the door to get the child to stay in the room. Yes, that's way better than physically carrying the child to his room. My kids don't even have doors on their rooms, so yeah, not going to happen.
Another helpful tip: if your child frequently wakes you in the night because he is frightened or having trouble sleeping, call a babysitter and go sleep at a hotel for the night! Maybe multiple nights! The babysitter, who has been prepped in advance, is supposed to make helpful conversation with the child, such as implying that if the child continues to get up in the night, the parents may spend every night away from home. If the child wakes the babysitter in the night, she is supposed to say "I don't know what to do with kids who get up in the middle of the night, because I don't know any kids who do that," and go back to sleep. Right, that'll probably work.
Many of their solutions, in fact, involve bringing in friends or accomplices who have been "prepped" with lines or roles to play, which always puts me in mind of the one-armed friend from Arrested Development ... "And that's why you always leave a note!"
For instance:
"Bedtime, like many other control issues, can be defused by giving up control. Parents tend to underestimate children's need for just a tiny bit of control [...] all they want is a little control, not the whole enchilada."
So far, so good. Give the child limited control. He has to stay in his room, but he may have the door open or closed, light on or off, music on or off, be in bed or out of bed, sleep or not sleep. You give him the *opportunity* to get as much sleep as he needs, but you can't force him to sleep. Makes sense. But then:
"[The child who hasn't had enough sleep] is going to be one obnoxious little dude in the morning. [...] It's the obnoxiousness we consequence, not the number of hours he sleeps. Say to the child, 'You need to spend more time in your room because you're cranky.' The child will probably say, 'Well, I didn't get enough sleep last night.' [emphasis mine] And your reply? 'Good thinking.' The lesson will hit home."
Okay ... has any child, anywhere, ever acknowledged that they were emotional, moody, and overreacting because they were tired? Many adults won't even acknowledge this. In my experience, suggesting to a fraught child that they may be getting angry because they're tired just brings an increased frenzy. "I am NOT tired, I'm angry because YOU'RE THE MEANEST MOTHER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!" (exact quote)
On temper tantrums: "Kids will throw tantrums only as long as they work. Kids never seem to scream and pound the floor when they're alone in their room, but the show goes on when they have a captive audience." This is laughably, demonstrably false. It would be hilarious -- except that it's so widely believed that it creates a pernicious judgmentalism among the relatives of those of us with rage-prone children. I know for a fact that our daughter's grandparents believe she throws tantrums only because we clearly must "give in" and let her have her way when she screams -- though they've never observed us doing this (because we don't).
How to keep kids in their rooms: "If I can't change his behavior, I change the location." Send him to his room, of course. But how to enforce that? "[A]void physically carrying the child to his room. [...] When the child is around age two, a statement -- 'I want you go to go your room, and I want you to go now" -- spoken firmly and with index finger pointing toward the room will usually get results."
Do these people actually have children? Well, reading on, they do acknowledge that you may need to then shut and lock the door to get the child to stay in the room. Yes, that's way better than physically carrying the child to his room. My kids don't even have doors on their rooms, so yeah, not going to happen.
Another helpful tip: if your child frequently wakes you in the night because he is frightened or having trouble sleeping, call a babysitter and go sleep at a hotel for the night! Maybe multiple nights! The babysitter, who has been prepped in advance, is supposed to make helpful conversation with the child, such as implying that if the child continues to get up in the night, the parents may spend every night away from home. If the child wakes the babysitter in the night, she is supposed to say "I don't know what to do with kids who get up in the middle of the night, because I don't know any kids who do that," and go back to sleep. Right, that'll probably work.
Many of their solutions, in fact, involve bringing in friends or accomplices who have been "prepped" with lines or roles to play, which always puts me in mind of the one-armed friend from Arrested Development ... "And that's why you always leave a note!"
The first half was pretty good, and there were a lot of helpful and empowering gems. That said, it's written with complete arrogance and pride - the authors see their point of view as THE best way to do things, no questions asked. Also very Christian-forward, which I thought was inappropriate and out of place for a parenting book.